What AR-15 to get

[TacticoolJunkie]

Alright I know this is again a terrible question to ask but it's gonna happen no matter what. I've narrowed it down to a few but I am also open to others and your opinions however please try to stay on topic.

The ones I'm looking at are as follows:

ST-15 16"Mid-length LE w/13.2" S.A.R.

Smith & Wesson M&P 15 sport

Open to suggestions

-My price range is around 1500(+)(-)
-I really like a flat top with Troy or Magpul flip sights
-mid length gas system is nice but I'm open to carbine
-free float rails nothin' shorter than 12 inches (rails not barrel of course)
-going to be for home defense, SHTF weapon, and good 'ol range time
-really would like it to be a durable and all around tough weapon

Any comments are appreciated.

[Southside830]

That spikes is a nice rifle for the $$ . You can get any AR you want for your budget. Palmetto State Armory has quality products for the $$ . Good ol' Colt 6920 is another great choice as well. Its not a middy but a damn nice rifle for around 1000$ . The AR market has fell off so I would not personally spend more than 1100$ on an AR right now. I just got a new Palmetto standard carbine for 599$ as an example of excellent prices as of late. Whatever you choose I would make sure its mil spec. Not because mil-spec is the end all requirement but because you can be assured of a certain baseline of the quality you will receive for the money. Things like chrome lined barrels, proper anodizing, quality bolt carrier etc.

[Rikakiah]

I like my Daniel Defense so far.

I'd say narrow it down to a few you like, then get the one that's in stock. My DDM4 went out of stock the day after I ordered it. I think Spikes is still on an 8-12 month backorder.

[TacticoolJunkie]

I've looked at and held colts before and they aren't exactly ergonomic IMO. Then I looked at the PSA and the rails they offer aren't my favorite either, also IMHO the PSAs look like the S&W M&P 15 vtac and if I get that kind of style I'll get the smith because I like that brand and their product.

As for DD they are a bit out of my price range but if I was to get one in that price range it would either be a DD or a LaRue Tactical.

[DubC-Hicks]

The Colt is as ergonomic as any other AR15 in the same configuration. They are all identical. If I was to get one, it'd be a Palmetto State Armory. I feel they are way better than the S&W, just from the poor finish I've seen on a lot of M&Ps. Not to mention that you can probably get the PSA cheaper.

[Fishbed77]

Spikes > S&W when it comes to ARs.

[Rikakiah]

My DD was right at 1500, but yeah, there are quality options that won't burn your whole budget. LaRue was way too expensive for me. I probably would've gotten a Spikes had they had any in stock. May very well go with their .300blk upper when the day comes if they've caught up on production.

You can change the rails on it later, no? Of course, that ups the price, but it does add to the fun of personalizing your rifle.

[theP8riot]

Is there a particular reason you don't want to put it together yourself? You can almost double the gun for the same money by putting your own together.

Any of the mentioned brands would be fine if you don't.

[Quentin2]

$1500... I'd be trying to shoehorn a railed Daniel Defense midlength in that price range. If not, a BCM middy spec'ed your way will fit. Colt would fit, too, but carbine length gas. Spikes and PSA aren't bad at all and will save some money. Your own build with quality parts is another great way to go.

I'd pass on building up/dumping lots of money in the S&W Sport. (It's best to keep ultra cheap ARs close to stock, too many folks wildly pump up an el cheapo to $2K then realize they should have initially started higher on the totem pole.)

[pilpens]

Spikes or S&W, I think I will pick Spikes.
=============
Have you looked at BCM or Palmetto?
Have you considered buying the upper group and building the lower?
Consider what ammo you plan to use most often then get the barrel rifling twist rate that best fits.
=============
- My AR-15s are BCM upper (5.56) and S&W upper (5.45x39) on Spike Lower. Both lowers were basic M4 from Spikes type but not anymore; trigger job on the 5.56 and Giselle trigger on the 5.45 + Magpul grip and stock.
- If I am to do it again. I think I would still get the upper group and build the lower myself.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by theP8riot

You can almost double the gun for the same money by putting your own together.

This is definitely not true, unless you somehow get ahold of some extremely discounted parts. Putting your own rifle together is sometimes cheaper, but these days it can often be MORE expensive than just buying a complete rifle. Parts can be expensive and hard to come buy, and there is a basic investment in tools, some of which you may not already have (a vise, vise block, AR tool, punches, etc.). On the other hand, there are some great deals on complete rifles out there now that the panic has died down.

The main reason building your rifle is sometimes cheaper is that you can build exactly what you want, there are no wasted parts like there often are when you upgrade a rifle you bought complete. But if you do build your rifle, realize you might not save much, if any, over buying complete, and it's extordinarily unlikely that you'll get "double the gun for the same money".

[loose_holster_dan]

just get the black one.

[theP8riot]

This is definitely not true

I definitely said almost. I've built several and have always come out much better rolling my own. And I have always used complete uppers.

Now we are talking about a $1500 gun. Different story if you want a basic $7-800 carbine. Not much to save there.

[Theohazard]

You said you can almost double the gun for your money, which is not true the vast majority of the time for most people. A first-time AR builder is going to be lucky if he's not spending more than if he just bought a complete rifle.

[Southside830]

I just built a new AR using a spikes lower, PSA lpk, BCM complete upper, Vltor imod stock, magpul moe furniture and a colt carry handle . 1100$$ +- definitely not a lot cheaper than buying a complete rifle. Honestly might have been more expensive. Building your own AR using quality components is nowhere close to 50% cheaper. That is a flat out lie. The benefits to building your own AR is that you can add the parts you would eventually replace on a factory rifle in the initial build.

[Quentin2]

I just built a new AR using a spikes lower, PSA lpk, BCM complete upper, Vltor imod stock, magpul moe furniture and a colt carry handle . 1100$$ +- definitely not a lot cheaper than buying a complete rifle. Honestly might have been more expensive. Building your own AR using quality components is nowhere close to 50% cheaper. That is a flat out lie. The benefits to building your own AR is that you can add the parts you would eventually replace on a factory rifle in the initial build.

It's not a flat out lie (maybe embellished for dramatic effect), it depends on how you go about it. You went about it fine and got your money's worth. (Nice build, BTW!) I also put together a build last year for around $1100 using a BCM upper plus BCM BCG and Gunfighter charging handle on my own stripped lower built up with Daniel Defense LPK and BCM stock kit plus Magpul furniture and MBUS2.

No doubt you could buy a complete BCM in that price range but I like the changes I made and likely you do too. Where someone gets into trouble is buying a cheap factory AR then as they get up to speed over the next year they start upgrading many components. Pretty soon an $800 rifle can balloon up to $1600+ yet it's nowhere near that good. Really, this comes down to lazy people who don't do much research or understand what they really want in the first place. These people often just buy something off the rack with little thought or understanding. And yes, the same type of person can also come up with a lousy "build", too.

Let's put it this way, adequate research can save lots of money whether you build or buy!

[TacticoolJunkie]

Thanks guys for all the help but I'm still a but lost I know I fairly large amount about ARs and I have shot them all my life I just have been wondering who the new rifles have to offer. I really like the product that spikes offers.

Now as far as why I would rather not build my own isn't so much because I wouldn't want to mess up, but more because I have seen a lot of buds have their rifle misfire and so on due to the way parts lined up and all that. I just like it to be all the same and to be factory done the first time. Now rails, furniture, etc. I'm all good with but it's all preference to me I guess it's just a thing kinda hard to describe.

[Quentin2]

Hey, Spikes is a good choice, if after the research you determine to be enough you still like it best then go for it.

But a quality custom build is just as likely to function as a factory AR. If a build doesn't work then the odds are lesser components were used. No doubt it can happen with a quality build but not likely. I've done four quality builds and all functioned fine. And that's not unusual, many of us have multiple successful builds. Still, it's up to you.

[eastbank]

also remember most builds and rebuilds do not hold their value over time.(i said most not all). i,ll stick to my colts(three with an extra upper). i can sell them for more than i paid for them, even in the post panic conditions we are seeing now. eastbank.

[TacticoolJunkie]

Ehh the colts have the name but if I wanted a name I would go with somethin like a DD or LaRue that way I would get a mid length.

Colt is good but I've had buds that go through the marines and army with the colts and say they wish they were more like some of the smiths and others more so than the colt. I also have shot a few colts mainly the 6920 and 6940 and I find them to be brick like in their ergonomics.

[DubC-Hicks]

I don't understand what is bad about Colts ergonomics, because they are the same as every other AR15 but I understand what you mean about not wanting an expensive name brand. On the other hand, you say you don't want a Colt because its a carbine, yet you are considering an M&P sport. Colt is about as good as it gets for carbines, way better than an M&P.

I would get a complete lower from Surplus ammo, then slap a PSA upper on it. That's what both of my rifles are and they work great.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by TacticoolJunkie

Colt is good but I've had buds that go through the marines and army with the colts and say they wish they were more like some of the smiths and others more so than the colt.

Colt is a better quality brand than S&W. What did they not like about the Colt? My guess is that they preferred those other brands because of the way they were set up, not because of the brand per se. Most Marine and Army units set up their rifles in a pretty plain way, and those other brands were probably tricked-out civilian models. Which has nothing to do with the brands and everything to do with the way they were set up. Any accessory or part you can put on a S&W you can put on a Colt, and vice-versa. When I was in the Marines there were a bunch of changes I wanted to make to my Colt M16, but I knew it had nothing to do with the manufacturer and everything to do with the way the Marines set up their rifles. And it was a great rifle.

Originally Posted by TacticoolJunkie

also have shot a few colts mainly the 6920 and 6940 and I find them to be brick like in their ergonomics.

It's the exact same design. How are the ergonomics different from a Colt to any other type of rifle? Are you talking about rails and stuff? Sure, most Colts don't come with rails, but you can install the same rails on a Colt you can on any other AR-15.

All the rifles we're talking about here are the same design and share almost all the same parts. The differences are only in quality of parts and also in what kind of upgrades the rifle comes with out of the box.

[Palmetto-Pride]

I find it odd that your budget is $1500.00 and the M&P Sport is on your short list

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by DubC-Hicks

Colt is about as good as it gets for carbines, way better than an M&P.

I agree. But it's true they don't make a mid-length. So here's a simple breakdown of the advantages and disadvantages of a Colt over other rifles:

Advantages:
1) A proven company
2) A very high-quality product
2) As close to mil-spec as you're going to get
3) All the extensive quality control that comes with being mil-spec

Disadvantages:
1) Fewer out-of-the box accessories (like rails) than other companies at the same price point
2) They don't offer a rifle with a mid-length gas system

But here are some easy counter-points to those disadvantages:
1) You can upgrade your Colt with rails and other features just like any other AR-15, and at that point you probably have a better quality rifle than one from a less expensive company
2) You can get a heavier buffer to counteract the higher gas pressure of a carbine-length gas system

[BillyJack3]

I find it odd that your budget is $1500.00 and the M&P Sport is on your short list

This. While the two you narrowed it down to are fine ARs, you are a couple of worlds apart. The Smith is a great rifle but can be had for around $700. The Spike's is a great AR and in that config, it's pretty decked out.

Of the two, I'd go Spike's but there are a lot of options in the $1500 price range.