45 Colt versus 44 Magnum - Page 8

propforce · February 12, 2015, 09:58 AM

Bringing back an old thread.

I've recently bought a Ruger Alaskan 454. My plan is to shoot 45C often and 454 on rare occasions and I like the fact that the gun is built for 454 so it will withstand 45 "ruger only" loads. I am new to 45/454/44mag. My first gun was the SW 686 bought it in 1990. I have many semi since then but still love the big bore revolvers best in my heart.

I am not a reloader (yet!) but have wanted to start for quite some time now. Perhaps the high cost of factory ammo in 45/454 will give me the needed push toward the right direction

In my search for 45/44 info I came across this thread. I commend everyone for being civil & informative. I learned a heck of lot benefiting from your posts.

Thanks everyone!

Bongo Boy · February 15, 2015, 12:24 AM

One might also ask why 44 Mag was ever developed in the first place, given that 45 Colt could have more than fulfilled the role. I'm not smart in these matters, but I have to think this was way more a matter of marketing and safety (loading super 45 colt loads into old 45 Colt guns).

To me, it's a real shame 45 Colt didn't transform into 45 Magnum, rather than have 44 Magnum appear on the market. It didn't, oh well. Move on.

mehavey · February 15, 2015, 04:11 AM

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Magnum

starting with Origin section, "Elmer Keith settled on the .44 Special cartridge as the basis ..."

buckhorn_cortez · February 15, 2015, 11:36 AM

Quote:

I've recently bought a Ruger Alaskan 454. My plan is to shoot 45C often and 454 on rare occasions and I like the fact that the gun is built for 454 so it will withstand 45 "ruger only" loads. I am new to 45/454/44mag.

I think you'll find the .454 to be a nasty cartridge to shoot. I have a S&W .460 X-Frame and would rather shoot .460 out of it than .454 Casull. If you look at factory loaded ammunition, and compare the recoil of each cartridge with 305 grain bullets (so that each caliber is using the same weight bullet), you will see the .454 has about 15% more recoil than the .460 and about 30% more than the .44 magnum.

The .454 is a handful in the X-Frame, and will be brutal in the Alaskan because of its smaller size and lighter weight.

I have a Ruger Alaskan in .44 magnum, and find it easier to shoot and control than my S&W M629 with the 4.5 inch barrel.

I've shot .44 magnum since 1972 and have a Ruger Super Blackhawk, Ruger Redhawk, Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan, S&W M29, and S&W M629 revolvers. In .45C, I've owned a S&W M25, Ruger Blackhawk, and the .460 S&W.

My preference is the .44 magnum over hot loading the .45C, and want nothing to do with the .454 in a relatively small revolver.

The 45C is a wonderful round by itself - much like the .44 Special. Pleasant to shoot all day with manageable recoil.

Have fun with your new revolver. I'd be interested in your experiences and what you think about the gun after you've shot both .45C and .454.

testuser79 · February 15, 2015, 11:57 AM

I don't see much difference when trying to attain the highest levels of performance. It's the in-between that creates the problems.

Sometimes the .45 Colt is operating at such low pressures, and has so much case capacity, that either position sensitivity or blow-by becomes a problem.

Light and mid range loads seem to work more consistently, and over a broader range of powders and bullet weights in the .44 magnum than the .45 Colt. It makes sense, the higher working pressure of the .44 magnum, even at lower powder charge weights means a more consistent burn. After reloading for both, it seemed easier to find a good load for .44 magnum using the powders I already had on hand.

For full tilt hunting loads, probably a draw. For target work, mid range loads, and full power loads, I prefer the .44 magnum.

buckhorn_cortez · February 15, 2015, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Sometimes the .45 Colt is operating at such low pressures, and has so much case capacity, that either position sensitivity or blow-by becomes a problem.

Boy - ain't THAT the truth...

Quote:

Light and mid range loads seem to work more consistently, and over a broader range of powders and bullet weights in the .44 magnum than the .45 Colt.

It makes sense, the higher working pressure of the .44 magnum, even at lower powder charge weights means a more consistent burn. After reloading for both, it seemed easier to find a good load for .44 magnum using the powders I already had on hand.

My exact experience with the two cartridges. One of the worst jams I've had was with the .45 Colt. Not enough pressure in the cartridge to get all of the slow burning powder ignited so the unburned powder blew out around the cylinder face and wedged the cylinder hard against the frame. That one took me about 4.5 hours to remedy. Learned to NOT believe everything you read in reloading manuals about recommended loads...

SaxonPig · February 15, 2015, 05:57 PM

The problem with cartridges designed for black powder is that some modern shooters look at the cavernous case and say "Oh yeah..."

In a small number of revolvers the 45 Colt can be overloaded to magnum performance levels. Make sure that ammo has no chance to find its way into a S&W Model 25-5 or a Colt SAA.

I see no need to do this. Truth is the fully loaded 44 Magnum is more than beyond my comfort zone on recoil. Can't imagine wanting to take the heavier 45 bullet to similar velocities. If I ever require that much power I'll bring a rifle.

Hunter Customs · February 15, 2015, 07:24 PM

Quote:

My exact experience with the two cartridges. One of the worst jams I've had was with the .45 Colt. Not enough pressure in the cartridge to get all of the slow burning powder ignited so the unburned powder blew out around the cylinder face and wedged the cylinder hard against the frame.

I've had the same experience with both the 357 and 44 mag when using H110 and W296.

The problem was not low pressure, it was that I tried lighting the large volume of slow burning powder off with a standard primer.

Don't seem to have any trouble with 2400 or 4227 no matter what primer I use, maybe this is some of the reason Elmer Keith was so fond of loading 2400.

Besides the two magnum calibers I already mentioned I also have revolvers in 45 Colt.

I actually prefer the 45 Colt over the others.
I cast some 280 gr WFN bullets, step them puppies out around 1000fps, they are enjoyable to shoot and will take care of anything I need a handgun for.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

saleen322 · February 15, 2015, 09:09 PM

They are both good calibers. I have a Ruger in each of the calibers and they are both nice to shoot. The 45 Colt will shoot a 255 grain bullet around 850 fps that is accurate and effective. I cast a 240 gas check bullet for the 44 mag that clocks about 1200 fps. Both loads are within SAAMI specs and those Rugers will last a long time shooting those loads. Either one will do anything reasonable that is expected from a normal handgun. Can't go wrong with either one.

Deaf Smith · February 16, 2015, 09:26 AM

Super light loads in any large capacity case can lead to explosions. Note the 2.7 gr bullseye problem with .38 specials.

So I've no doubt a .45 lc or even .44 mag can be harmed that way.

As for which.. I've got several .44 mags and thus that's what I use. But if it was the other way around it would be fine with me!

Deaf

Freebird5049 · March 5, 2015, 08:19 AM

Idk but I love my 45 colt, I know this is a hangun thread but I have a Rossi 92 and I contacted Rossi a while back and I believe they said all of their actions are rated to 50,000psi from .357 to .454 casull. If I fill a 45 colt case with 15 unique and press a 200 grain cast wadcutter in it...... wow. That's one hell of a bang, and destroys most saplings it hits

with almost zero recoil, that could attribute to the bullet being .452 diameter also instead of the .454 norm for cast bullets. No signs of overpressure in the gun, you just get ballooned cases, your brass will only last two reloads, not for plinking but probably good for hunting. With a 325 grain bullet I can mock 45-70 factory loads. Can a 44 mag do that? I think this topic is more accurately based on which gun these loads are fired from to determine which is better

zxcvbob · March 5, 2015, 09:36 AM

What makes you think that load is less than 50kpsi?

**Mike Irwin** · March 5, 2015, 12:35 PM

"One might also ask why 44 Mag was ever developed in the first place, given that 45 Colt could have more than fulfilled the role. I'm not smart in these matters, but I have to think this was way more a matter of marketing and safety (loading super 45 colt loads into old 45 Colt guns)."

Why?

Becuase Elmer Keith was working primarily with S&W revolvers and the .44 Special to develop the heavy loads that eventually were ramped up into the .44 Magnum.

February 12, 2015, 09:58 AM	#176
propforce Member Join Date: October 9, 2011 Posts: 58	Bringing back an old thread. I've recently bought a Ruger Alaskan 454. My plan is to shoot 45C often and 454 on rare occasions and I like the fact that the gun is built for 454 so it will withstand 45 "ruger only" loads. I am new to 45/454/44mag. My first gun was the SW 686 bought it in 1990. I have many semi since then but still love the big bore revolvers best in my heart. I am not a reloader (yet!) but have wanted to start for quite some time now. Perhaps the high cost of factory ammo in 45/454 will give me the needed push toward the right direction In my search for 45/44 info I came across this thread. I commend everyone for being civil & informative. I learned a heck of lot benefiting from your posts. Thanks everyone! Last edited by propforce; February 12, 2015 at 10:09 AM.

February 15, 2015, 12:24 AM	#177
Bongo Boy Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2008 Location: Colo Spgs CO Posts: 517	One might also ask why 44 Mag was ever developed in the first place, given that 45 Colt could have more than fulfilled the role. I'm not smart in these matters, but I have to think this was way more a matter of marketing and safety (loading super 45 colt loads into old 45 Colt guns). To me, it's a real shame 45 Colt didn't transform into 45 Magnum, rather than have 44 Magnum appear on the market. It didn't, oh well. Move on. __________________ NRA Benefactor Member “If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.” T Bankhead "I think only the authorities should have weapons." The New American Electorate

February 15, 2015, 11:57 AM	#180
testuser79 Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2014 Posts: 115	Case efficiency I don't see much difference when trying to attain the highest levels of performance. It's the in-between that creates the problems. Sometimes the .45 Colt is operating at such low pressures, and has so much case capacity, that either position sensitivity or blow-by becomes a problem. Light and mid range loads seem to work more consistently, and over a broader range of powders and bullet weights in the .44 magnum than the .45 Colt. It makes sense, the higher working pressure of the .44 magnum, even at lower powder charge weights means a more consistent burn. After reloading for both, it seemed easier to find a good load for .44 magnum using the powders I already had on hand. For full tilt hunting loads, probably a draw. For target work, mid range loads, and full power loads, I prefer the .44 magnum.

February 16, 2015, 09:26 AM	#185
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Super light loads in any large capacity case can lead to explosions. Note the 2.7 gr bullseye problem with .38 specials. So I've no doubt a .45 lc or even .44 mag can be harmed that way. As for which.. I've got several .44 mags and thus that's what I use. But if it was the other way around it would be fine with me! Deaf __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

March 5, 2015, 09:36 AM	#187
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	What makes you think that load is less than 50kpsi? __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

February 15, 2015, 04:11 AM	#178
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,907	See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Magnum starting with Origin section, "Elmer Keith settled on the .44 Special cartridge as the basis ..."

February 15, 2015, 05:57 PM	#182
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	The problem with cartridges designed for black powder is that some modern shooters look at the cavernous case and say "Oh yeah..." In a small number of revolvers the 45 Colt can be overloaded to magnum performance levels. Make sure that ammo has no chance to find its way into a S&W Model 25-5 or a Colt SAA. I see no need to do this. Truth is the fully loaded 44 Magnum is more than beyond my comfort zone on recoil. Can't imagine wanting to take the heavier 45 bullet to similar velocities. If I ever require that much power I'll bring a rifle.

February 15, 2015, 09:09 PM	#184
saleen322 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2010 Posts: 778	They are both good calibers. I have a Ruger in each of the calibers and they are both nice to shoot. The 45 Colt will shoot a 255 grain bullet around 850 fps that is accurate and effective. I cast a 240 gas check bullet for the 44 mag that clocks about 1200 fps. Both loads are within SAAMI specs and those Rugers will last a long time shooting those loads. Either one will do anything reasonable that is expected from a normal handgun. Can't go wrong with either one.

March 5, 2015, 08:19 AM	#186
Freebird5049 Junior Member Join Date: March 4, 2015 Posts: 1	Idk but I love my 45 colt, I know this is a hangun thread but I have a Rossi 92 and I contacted Rossi a while back and I believe they said all of their actions are rated to 50,000psi from .357 to .454 casull. If I fill a 45 colt case with 15 unique and press a 200 grain cast wadcutter in it...... wow. That's one hell of a bang, and destroys most saplings it hits with almost zero recoil, that could attribute to the bullet being .452 diameter also instead of the .454 norm for cast bullets. No signs of overpressure in the gun, you just get ballooned cases, your brass will only last two reloads, not for plinking but probably good for hunting. With a 325 grain bullet I can mock 45-70 factory loads. Can a 44 mag do that? I think this topic is more accurately based on which gun these loads are fired from to determine which is better

March 5, 2015, 12:35 PM	#188
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,391	"One might also ask why 44 Mag was ever developed in the first place, given that 45 Colt could have more than fulfilled the role. I'm not smart in these matters, but I have to think this was way more a matter of marketing and safety (loading super 45 colt loads into old 45 Colt guns)." Why? Becuase Elmer Keith was working primarily with S&W revolvers and the .44 Special to develop the heavy loads that eventually were ramped up into the .44 Magnum. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.