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Old July 8, 2020, 05:01 AM   #26
PatientWolf
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I’m curious about the physics associated with accessories causing the gun to not cycle correctly (I’m an engineer). If the gun requires a firm rest to cycle properly, I would expect that more weight would also help as it would be more mass resisting movement of the gun forcing the bolt to take up more of the recoil thus cycling better.

As people have pointed out, this isn’t the case. Can anyone offer an explanation of what my physics is missing?
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Old July 8, 2020, 10:28 AM   #27
tangolima
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There is a floating weight inside the gun's chassis. When the gun fires, both the chassis and the weight travel backwards at the same speed due to recoil. They do so for a short distance. The chassis stops against the shooter's shoulder, whole the weight keeps on going, cycling the action.

In order for the action to cycle correctly, the abrupt stopping of the chassis is essential. That's why the gun needs a solid backing. Shooters are asked to lean into the gun.

Adding weight to the chassis is counter productive in this regard. It takes more doing to stop the chassis abruptly enough.

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Old July 9, 2020, 04:58 AM   #28
PatientWolf
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Thank you. Real-world physics vs theoretical physics.
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Old July 9, 2020, 06:54 PM   #29
tangolima
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There is no conflict between theory and practice in this case. That's just the way the action works. A bit quirky it is.

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Old July 9, 2020, 10:47 PM   #30
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Laser sight... A must
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Old July 10, 2020, 12:12 AM   #31
Virginian
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There is no "floating weight". The bolt is two piece with a heavy spring between them. When the gun fires and recoils the spring compresses. It requires the gun to sharply recoil; now you know why they came up with those two piece stocks. After the Civolani patents expired several other manufacturers jumped on the inertia action. There are several good descriptions of how the Civolani action works online.
I do not like recoil operated or inertia actioned shotguns. When 3-1/2" shells appeared, I tried a Benelli Super Black Eagle One. It handled well, and with 2-3/4" or 3" loads it kicked about like my Wingmaster - maybe a tad more. With 3-1/2" loads that was the worst kicking shotgun I ever fired. It was worse than a Mossberg 835, and even worse than a specially lightened BPS 10 gauge. If you like viciously recoiling guns they could be the gun for you.
With the right loads, than can be extremely reliable, unless you get an earlier one with the now World famous "Benelli click".
Caveat: If I still chased grouse in the mountains or wild quail, I would have a Benelli 28 gauge Ultra Light or a Franchi 28 gauge 48.
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Last edited by Virginian; July 10, 2020 at 04:42 PM.
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Old July 19, 2020, 02:57 PM   #32
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I sold an 11-87 that had spotty reliability problems with duck hunting. It went to Remington twice and still did the same thing. Actually traded it in - with full disclosure - on an M-1 super 90. Guessing maybe 25 years ago? The Benelli has not had one malfunction of any kind in the time I've owned it. Trust level there is very high.

I also have a 20 gauge 1100 that's now 47 years old. I recently had the barrel shortened and also the stock to fit my wife. It's a reliable shotgun too and more useful for her as she is not a large person.

Edit: I just tested my Benelli. It will not function properly without being held against my shoulder. Good to know.

Last edited by Terrierman; July 20, 2020 at 11:10 AM.
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Old July 20, 2020, 04:07 PM   #33
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I had always thought the reasoning behind the Benelli M4 (which is gas operated) was that is was more reliable in a combat role than the inertia style shotguns. because the inertia guns have to be against something to cycle properly. I have found while waterfowl hunting they all jam. But that is more due to the harsh conditions of the marsh. (mud/water/ice).
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Old July 20, 2020, 06:23 PM   #34
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Man, you guys are way off the mark. Back in the 80’s my job required me to host customers on hunting trips to the company’s ranch. When I started the job I had an 1100 that was my goodbye gift from where I used to work. In 5 years of truly heavy use, I wore it completely out. It would spit parts. Had a gunsmith fix it a couple of times, but he finally said it was fixed, will work for a while, and now you should sell it. I did so.

So, back when the gun was still working, I had a couple of guys riding with me on my company Jeep. We did some serious shooting, and as always, us 1100 guys had to clean the guns and gas system. They were a mess of carbon. There was a bench set up with rods and hoppes for cleaning gas guns. So there I was, cleaning my 1100, when one of my guests just walked over and just put his shotgun in the rack and started walking away. I spoke and asked why he wasn’t going to clean his shotgun, and he said he didn’t need to. Well, that couldn’t be right, and I pretty much said that. He said his gun wasn’t a gas gun and wasn’t dirty. From my expression, he decided to show me. The gun was a Browning A5. He stripped it down, ran a finger over the recoil shaft and spring and his finger was clean. Holy Cow, what a shock. So when the 1100 was fixed enough to sell, I sold it and found an old Remington Model 11. Took it to Briley in Houston and had the barrel shortened and Briley screw in choke tubes installed. I used it a lot. Shot dove, quail, ducks and geese for years. Still have the old gun, which is older than I am. I got it back from Briley Mfg on Friday and won a trap shoot on Saturday.

Went goose hunting down on the coast of Louisiana one time, and I noticed that every guide had Model 11’s or A5’s. They were all nasty and beat up old guns, but so reliable, as the guides told me.

All that said, the 1100 was a good shooter and soft kicker. The old Remington Model 11 kicks pretty good. And it’ll cycle the action with pretty much every load, if you arrange the brass sleeve on the guide rod properly.
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Old July 20, 2020, 09:22 PM   #35
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I am trying to remember if I ever saw a guide with anything but a pump - usually an 870. But, I have only hunted in Virginia, Ohio, North Carolina, Maryland, Louisiana, Texas, South Carolina, Arkansas, Ontario, and Manitoba.
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