Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ in Clear Ballistics Gel.

5pins · January 19, 2018, 06:36 PM

Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano.
Barrel length: 3.9 inches, 3 inches.
Ammunition: Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ (RA9TA)
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: PACT 1 XP with inferred sky screens.

I finally had the opportunity to try some ammo out and today’s pick was the Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+. I got an average velocity of 1237fps last year when I shot it out of my Glock 19. This round has been around for a while and it appears to be a Black Talon without the black coating. Two rounds into bare gel and two into heavy clothing with the Sig P229 with a 3.9-inch barrel and then two round into bare gel with the Beretta Nano with a 3-inch barrel.

The first round from the Sig into bare gel had a velocity of 1239fps penetrated to 18.5 inches and expanded to .64 inches. Round two hit the gel at 1225fps and penetrated to 19.25 inches with an expansion of .67 inches.

Into the heavy clothed gel, both rounds passed completely through both 16-inch gel block and were not recovered. It suggests to me that neither one expanded. The velocity was 1221fps for the first round and 1225fps for the second.

Out of the Nano, round one had a velocity of 1200fps expanded to .57 and penetrated to 16.5 inches. There was only slight deformation of the hollow point but nothing one would call expansion. It had a velocity of 1171fps and penetrated to 29.5 inches.

rock185 · January 20, 2018, 03:36 AM

5pins, thanks for posting these tests. The Ranger 127+P+ was a favorite of mine for years. But yours, and other tests, indicate it my not be as good as I once assumed it to be.

BTW, I read your post on the 38 Spcl. Nyclad with interest too. I recently finished shooting and chronographing some old .38 Nyclad myself. I always assumed it would expand at low velocity due to it's construction. Apparently wrong again

TruthTellers · January 20, 2018, 03:54 AM

That velocity doesn't impress me even if it is +P+ ammunition. The failures to expand obviously don't impress me either and make me think outside of 4 or 5 months of the year, this ammo would be a danger to overpenetrate.

I've never really liked +P+ 9mm ammo. It's inconsistent among manufacturers and there are many guns not rated for it. Even 9mm +P isn't all that much better compared to standard pressure 9mm.

Thanks for the results OP. The expansion out of a 4 inch barrel in bare gel is great, but it doesn't make up for the failures out of shorter barrels.

5pins · January 20, 2018, 10:39 AM

I think the need for +P+ ammo is unnecessary nowadays. With bullet todays technology, standard pressure ammo performs as well or better without the extra recoil.

RC20 · January 20, 2018, 12:23 PM

I would say ++ never was needed, marketing gimmick.

A lot like the thing with Intell and the speed race in chips, so they cheated to who more speed and created a flaw I in the chips that can be hacked (Spectre and Meltdown) .

By the time even +P came along, they were making good SD bullet designs.

CDW4ME · January 21, 2018, 09:40 AM

Designed for FL for most of the year, naked or lightly clothed load.

January 19, 2018, 06:36 PM	#1
5pins Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1998 Location: WV Posts: 252	Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ in Clear Ballistics Gel. Test Gun: Sig P229, Beretta Nano. Barrel length: 3.9 inches, 3 inches. Ammunition: Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+ (RA9TA) Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel. Distance: 10 feet. Chronograph: PACT 1 XP with inferred sky screens. I finally had the opportunity to try some ammo out and today’s pick was the Winchester Ranger T-Series 127gr +P+. I got an average velocity of 1237fps last year when I shot it out of my Glock 19. This round has been around for a while and it appears to be a Black Talon without the black coating. Two rounds into bare gel and two into heavy clothing with the Sig P229 with a 3.9-inch barrel and then two round into bare gel with the Beretta Nano with a 3-inch barrel. The first round from the Sig into bare gel had a velocity of 1239fps penetrated to 18.5 inches and expanded to .64 inches. Round two hit the gel at 1225fps and penetrated to 19.25 inches with an expansion of .67 inches. Into the heavy clothed gel, both rounds passed completely through both 16-inch gel block and were not recovered. It suggests to me that neither one expanded. The velocity was 1221fps for the first round and 1225fps for the second. Out of the Nano, round one had a velocity of 1200fps expanded to .57 and penetrated to 16.5 inches. There was only slight deformation of the hollow point but nothing one would call expansion. It had a velocity of 1171fps and penetrated to 29.5 inches. __________________ www.general-cartridge.com

January 20, 2018, 03:36 AM	#2
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,120	5pins, thanks for posting these tests. The Ranger 127+P+ was a favorite of mine for years. But yours, and other tests, indicate it my not be as good as I once assumed it to be. BTW, I read your post on the 38 Spcl. Nyclad with interest too. I recently finished shooting and chronographing some old .38 Nyclad myself. I always assumed it would expand at low velocity due to it's construction. Apparently wrong again __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

January 20, 2018, 03:54 AM	#3
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,962	That velocity doesn't impress me even if it is +P+ ammunition. The failures to expand obviously don't impress me either and make me think outside of 4 or 5 months of the year, this ammo would be a danger to overpenetrate. I've never really liked +P+ 9mm ammo. It's inconsistent among manufacturers and there are many guns not rated for it. Even 9mm +P isn't all that much better compared to standard pressure 9mm. Thanks for the results OP. The expansion out of a 4 inch barrel in bare gel is great, but it doesn't make up for the failures out of shorter barrels. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

January 20, 2018, 10:39 AM	#4
5pins Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 1998 Location: WV Posts: 252	I think the need for +P+ ammo is unnecessary nowadays. With bullet todays technology, standard pressure ammo performs as well or better without the extra recoil. __________________ www.general-cartridge.com

January 20, 2018, 12:23 PM	#5
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,334	I would say ++ never was needed, marketing gimmick. A lot like the thing with Intell and the speed race in chips, so they cheated to who more speed and created a flaw I in the chips that can be hacked (Spectre and Meltdown) . By the time even +P came along, they were making good SD bullet designs. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not

January 21, 2018, 09:40 AM	#6
CDW4ME Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2009 Posts: 1,321	Designed for FL for most of the year, naked or lightly clothed load. __________________ Strive to carry the handgun you would want anywhere, everywhere; forget that good area bullcrap. "Wouldn't want to / Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.