Garmin Xero C1 Pro Chronograph

[stagpanther]

Kinda--but the labradar does not interpolate the velocities at distances--it's returning the actual in-flight tracked measurements AFAIK. It does interpolate the at-the-muzzle velocity to the extent it extrapolates the difference between the muzzle and where the trajectory of the bullet intersects it's "detection aim" at the target as I understand it, but so does the Garmin if I understand it correctly. Although labradar says the distances ability is limited to 100 yds; I've found that with some cartridges under ideal conditions that can be pushed to 150 yds and occassionally a bit more if I'm willing to settle for incomplete data sets. Environmental conditions can play a role in skewing data--but that can happen with any chrony. I've been using the labradar pretty much since it came out--when I cross-correlate its data with QL and 4DOF ballistics calculators it's usually very close to spot on--with the occasional but obvious "results flier." The achilles heel of the labradar is the velocity transition area between pistol and rifle velocities around 1,700 fps +/-; that can take some "frigging with the rigging" to get right on occasion.

[ed308]

Got mine the first week they came out. Really like it compared to the Labradar I sold. Really easy to aim and use. Picks up my shots and not other shooters shots. And works with every rifle and pistol I own from .22 to 30.06. Only problem I’ve had is getting it to record shots on ranges that have overhead wood baffles. Couldn’t get mine to record any shots at that range. Other than that problem, love it. It even picked up shots from my .22 cal pistol in an indoor range with a target set only 5 yards away.

[higgite]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

The Labradar and Garmin use Doppler radar and, based on their wizardry in the box, calculate a muzzle velocity from measurements 10 to 40 yards for the Garmin and 10 to 200 yards for the Labradar.

Originally Posted by ed308

It even picked up shots from my .22 cal pistol in an indoor range with a target set only 5 yards away.

Both of those observations are interesting. The thing that initially turned me off of the new Garmin gadget is that Garmin says the target must be at least 20 yards from the chronograph and my favorite shooting range only goes to 15 yards.
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webh...0B4CB0818.html
https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webh...4-6134212F5F24

I may have to rethink this if shorter distances are consistently reported by users.

[ed308]

That interesting it’s not suppose to work at close range. The range I tried it with my pistols was an indoor range with hanging targets on a track. The maximum distance for those lanes at that range is 25 yards. The Garmin is probably recording the shots after the bullet passes through the target and continues down the range.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by higgite

Both of those observations are interesting. The thing that initially turned me off of the new Garmin gadget is that Garmin says the target must be at least 20 yards from the chronograph and my favorite shooting range only goes to 15 yards.

I may have to rethink this if shorter distances are consistently reported by users.

I'll try it closer and compare to a MagnetoSpeed for verification next time I get out to the range.

[higgite]

Originally Posted by ed308

That interesting it’s not suppose to work at close range. The range I tried it with my pistols was an indoor range with hanging targets on a track. The maximum distance for those lanes at that range is 25 yards. The Garmin is probably recording the shots after the bullet passes through the target and continues down the range.

I see what you’re saying, but unless the Garmin is set far enough to the side to see “around” the target, I think the target itself will block/reflect the radar signal and keep it from tracking beyond the target. I'm thinking in terms of ~2'x3' paper range targets. I’m not a radar guru, so I could be wrong. I was once before.

[ballardw]

Originally Posted by higgite

I see what you’re saying, but unless the Garmin is set far enough to the side to see “around” the target, I think the target itself will block/reflect the radar signal and keep it from tracking beyond the target. I'm thinking in terms of ~2'x3' paper range targets. I’m not a radar guru, so I could be wrong. I was once before.

Could depend on radar frequency, target material and signal processing. There is such as thing as "ground penetrating radar" used to search for changes in density/ objects under the surface. A bullet would likely be much denser than the target so if the signal does pass through a typical thin paper I don't see this as too improbable.

[Jim Watson]

We will see such things when mine arrives.

[higgite]

Originally Posted by ballardw

Could depend on radar frequency, target material and signal processing. There is such as thing as "ground penetrating radar" used to search for changes in density/ objects under the surface. A bullet would likely be much denser than the target so if the signal does pass through a typical thin paper I don't see this as too improbable.

Would be interesting to have someone with a Garmin, or Labradar for that matter, shoot at no target and then at a target at say 20 yards and then at a target at 5 yards and see what results they get.

[Jim Watson]

I plan to. If I remember this thread by the time mine comes in.

[mehavey]

LabRadars keep tracking the bullet after passing through paper target/carboard backing all the way
down range unless until unstable/tumbling occurs to a degree that return signal is disrupted.
24.080 to 24.168 GHz

[RC20]

Admittedly the labradar does take aiming to line up well--always wondered why they didn't come out with a spotting device of sort

Shrug, there is a screw on sight, you can put a tube on top or you can just eyeball the notch which I have found works perfectly fine.

Real shock to me as I had seen nothing about the Garmin till now.

My biggest issue with Labradar was I started in January with a cold winter and the buttons and my fingers were not happy.

The Garmin looks to be a great unit in a great size package.

But sell the Labradar? No way. It does what I want the way I want. Perfect? Nope. I don't have the problems others have with it, either its got variability or I am doing something right.

I would change some things about it if I could (buttons that responded better) but compared to the Old Chrony? Phew, easy to setup, easy to use. It misses a shot occasionally but I could get the other trigger.

Run it with a 22 Semi Auto and it picks those up fine, Cap and Ball fine. 22 Rifle? No, you need the aux trigger. (well sort of, I can get it to work but awkward).

Cost? Probably the Garmin as you pay extra for the labradar bag and chargeable battery. I built my own mount so saved that cost.

I will seriously suggest a look at the Garmin to those who ask.

[GeauxTide]

I bought an Oehler 33 back in the 70s when there was nothing else. Used it for decades and gave it to a friend. Bought a 35p with the printer. Can print out my strings. Yes, PITA to setup, but it is the standard.

[RC20]

I am not a competition bench rest though I probably could compete in my age division.

I just write my data down, more shrug, it works and I don't have to buy a smart phone nor all the link stuff (pencil and paper is very reliable!)

Still would like a bag for this as you want the trip pod and the unit together. Small size does nothing for me. I like the Labradar large size.

Mfgs BC is going to be far more accurate than anything calculated in the field in my opinion.

I had a raging argument with a Fire Dept guy over measuring water flow from a fire pump one time. He did not like the system mounted flowmeter (calibrated) and thought his calculations with 150 feet of hose and bends etc was curate, hmmm - if you want accurate flow into a tank and time it.

Otherwise the flow meter is going to be accurate and with all the variables your calcs can easily be off 20% (its a weird world for those flows and testing them on a fire pump) .

[stagpanther]

Shrug, there is a screw on sight, you can put a tube on top or you can just eyeball the notch which I have found works perfectly fine.

I do those things, I would say it "works perfectly OK" but you likely are going to sacrifice a few cartridges to get the ideal track; especially at long distance elevation differences from shooting position to target. That said, gonna take more than just convenience to get me to bail on my labradar. Had the Garmin had distances tracking and recording that might have tipped the scale for me.

[mehavey]

- delete -

[zeke]

Took the brandy new Garmin to the outdoor range for first try. Charged the battery first, easily fit into range bag (larger hard tool box). Fast to set up, got position right on first try (really easy) and used it to chrono some new 45 ar loads. It never missed a shot, briefly taking time to calculate the result. Have no fancy phone, but unit does not need one to operate and i just wrote down the velocity's in book (no batteries/internet required), and reset session after each string. Am not needing B.C. calculation for my purposes, someone else's purpose may differ.

For my purposes, the ease of storage/transport/set up/use really helps. The reliability of getting a velocity reading is huge. In the future, am wondering how long the battery is good for. Sure it's expensive, but my actual shooting time is slowly running out and not patient enough to wait for cheaper prices or competition from other new copied models.

Will try it on indoor range at first chance, and the much smaller dedicated indoor range bag still has plenty of room for it.

Wish as i might, will not be able to get back all the time/effort messing with the old chrony. But will likely chrono much more as it is no longer a pita.

[L. Boscoe]

which of these works in an indoor range that is only 22yds long?
(pistol, needless to say)

[MarkCO]

The Garmin "needs" 20 yards according to the data sheet.

I've not tried shorter yet, plan to this week.

[zeke]

Well made it to the indoor range today, which has it's backstop at 25 yds and divided shooting booths. Large paper silhouette target at 25 yds and the Garmin didn't miss a shot, although it seems a little sensitive at the indoor range and went into a repeating analyzing phase. Moving it a tad and resetting fixed it, and not sure what caused it, but the range has a more modern air moving/filtering system.

Got the results i wanted at 75 feet, so moved it up to 50 feet. Again it didn't miss a shot. Then moved it up to 25 feet, and yet again it didn't miss a shot. Am not knowledgeable about how it works, but am guessing having it set to the side a little allows it to calculate the whole way to 25 yds? Anyway, it worked at 75, 50 and 25 feet inside when the backstop was 25 yds downrange.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by zeke

Well made it to the indoor range today, which has it's backstop at 25 yds and divided shooting booths. Large paper silhouette target at 25 yds and the Garmin didn't miss a shot, although it seems a little sensitive at the indoor range and went into a repeating analyzing phase. Moving it a tad and resetting fixed it, and not sure what caused it, but the range has a more modern air moving/filtering system.

Got the results i wanted at 75 feet, so moved it up to 50 feet. Again it didn't miss a shot. Then moved it up to 25 feet, and yet again it didn't miss a shot. Am not knowledgeable about how it works, but am guessing having it set to the side a little allows it to calculate the whole way to 25 yds? Anyway, it worked at 75, 50 and 25 feet inside when the backstop was 25 yds downrange.

Good data zeke.

[higgite]

Well done, zeke.

Does it give you the velocity at whatever point downrange that it picks up the projectile or does it automatically calculate back to the muzzle? Or both?

Any differences in the reported average velocities for each target distance or all pretty much the same?

[zeke]

Originally Posted by higgite

Well done, zeke.

Does it give you the velocity at whatever point downrange that it picks up the projectile or does it automatically calculate back to the muzzle? Or both?

Any differences in the reported average velocities for each target distance or all pretty much the same?

Only had one shot of a load combination that was tested at 2 different distances. The shot at 50 feet was right in the middle of the rounds fired at 75 feet. The next powder combination was shot at 50 feet, and another bullet tried at 25 feet. Maybe next time will shoot same combination at all three distances, but none of the results seemed out of line.

sorry, but I have no clue how/when it picks up a bullet in flight.

[zeke]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Good data zeke.

thanks, am just glad it works at the indoor range. It gets cold up here in the winter.

[MarkCO]

https://youtu.be/6yL8UcQgOps