Steel target safety

[Hdonly]

A friend and I were shooting .22 lr at my range the other day. I have some hanging steel 2"targets. He fired a round and a shaving of lead hit him in the face. Just hard enough to stick and draw blood. Nothing serious BUT it could have been. Firing from about 50 yards. We think what happened is that one of the targets was still swinging from a previous shot and he may have hit the edge while the target was not facing exactly perpendicular to the bullet path. We have been using these targets for several years and this is the first time this happened. This has gotten me a little spooked now.

[Jim Watson]

50 yards is a long way for spatter but obviously not impossible.
You and he WERE wearing shooting glasses, weren’t you?

I do an a little flying lead off steel is just part of the game.

[mehavey]

...fired a [22] round [at a 50-yd swinging steel target] and a shaving of lead hit him in the face.

OOC: What type of firearm was being used ?
FWIW: just from air resistance to a ragged/flattened/shaved-lead profile, I'm having trouble
with splatter/remnants from a 40gr lead projectile making it 180-back to the firing line with
any kind of energy.

What was the time delay between the shot and apparent facial impact?

(Could be quantum entanglement though . . . )

.

[zeke]

Might also consider how thick your targets are, are you referring to 22 lr, what kind of steel and what condition they are in. If the targets are not specifically designed for 22 lr, or pock marked, you can have bounce back to 50 yds.

Too heavy for 22 lr, and they may not swing back easily. If they are pock marked, a bullet can hit the pock mark and come right back at ya. Same if they are cupped from using with higher power rounds.

Our range uses 500 brinell 1/4 in for 22 lr and on a 22 lr specific range.

You can also get directed fragments from ground richocets, or shooting at an angle to target.

On our high power range, you must be 100 yds back for 223.

[Nathan]

This seems unbelievable, but who know.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Hdonly

Firing from about 50 yards. We think what happened is that one of the targets was still swinging from a previous shot and he may have hit the edge while the target was not facing exactly perpendicular to the bullet path.

My steel targets DO NOT hang perpendicular to the bullet path, but instead they hang at a slight (10-15 degrees) angle down. Not only does this angle direct the splatter down towards the ground, but it also reduces the chances when hit while still swinging, for splatter to be directed straight back.

[gwpercle]

Easy fix ... stop shooting at steel targets .
There are other's on the market now that don't ricochet ... like the ones made by
Throom ... check them out at www.throomtargets.com
Would be worth having for the peace of mind ...
If It happened once it couyld happen again ... that sliver of lead ...
Could Put an Eye Out !
Gary

[44caliberkid]

It’s a fairly common occurrence in Cowboy Action shooting, especially with 38 Special gamer loads (very reduced), which don’t splatter but bounce right back at the line. I was counting misses and had a flattened 38 slug come back and stick to my cheek. I peeled it off and had a little blood. I have also had them hit my torso and arms. Safety glasses are a must when shooting. Just a few weeks ago a guy to the right of me, shooting a 22 revolver, was hitting me with lead shavings from the barrel/ cylinder gap. Again, glad to have glasses with side shields. There is a YouTube video of a guy shooting a 50 BMG at a 500 yard target. After the shot and about a 3 - 4 second pause, the bullet came back and knocked a hat off the bench. They were shooting in the desert with a rocky backstop. The manufacturer of my 50 warns to not shoot at rocks.

[JohnKSa]

It's important that the targets not have dents/pocks in them that have any significant depth. If a bullet hits right in one of the dents/pocks, the shape of the mark can send the bullet or bullet material back at the firing line.

[georgehwbush]

i was hit in the leg once by 22lr bounce back off of steel the whole 'booolit' ;/ no blood but a bruse and a blood blister.

[Hdonly]

They are actually 3" A500 targets. I am going to look at a different way to hang them so they can't swing at all side to side. Yes, shooting glasses were worn. Standard velocity .22 IR rounds. Fired from a Marlin 60 semi-auto rifle. Lead sliver was a little less than 1/2" long and very thin.

[zeke]

Originally Posted by Hdonly

They are actually 3" A500 targets. I am going to look at a different way to hang them so they can't swing at all side to side. Yes, shooting glasses were worn. Standard velocity .22 IR rounds. Fired from a Marlin 60 semi-auto rifle. Lead sliver was a little less than 1/2" long and very thin.

those are really designed for more powerful rounds. The heavier the target, the harder to get swinging by a hit with 22 lr. Especially at 50 yds. Ime, lower velocity/force softer lead rounds have greater likely hood of coming back at ya. Most 22 lr targets are 1/4 in.

Got more aware of these things when bought inexpensive set of electronic ear muffs. The gunshot itself was subdued, the ricochets (zingers) were amplified

[Erno86]

One of our range rules is to not shoot at a still swinging (back and forth) steel target --- Though a significant wind can make the steel target swing a bit; I still wait to crack-off another shot until no substantial swing of the steel target is displayed.

[rickyrick]

I got hit in the shin with a 9mm of a swing target.

It stung and broke the skin a little bit. I heard it coming.

It may have been a target rated for rifles, but I don’t recall the details, probably was for rifles.

[FrankenMauser]

Standard velocity .22 IR rounds. Fired from a Marlin 60 semi-auto rifle. Lead sliver was a little less than 1/2" long and very thin.

Very unlikely to make it back to the shooter. Far more likely to be shaved from the bullet while chambering, and blown back at the shooter during extraction.

[mehavey]

^^^^ My thoughts as well ^^^^
The aerodynamics would seem bordering
on impossible from a 50 yard distance.

[Hdonly]

Well, the last two posts are just wrong.The chamber opening is on the right side of the rifle. The piece of lead hit him on the left side of his face after the round was fired. You may think it is impossible but I was there and it is indeed possible.

[mehavey]

Well, the last two posts are just wrong.

Take care in positing absolutes.
The terms "unlikely" and "seems" permit possibility even though implausible.

(Still having problems here w/ the aero probability of a thin sliver
as described making a 150-ft trip directly back to point of origin.)

[Hdonly]

OMG . Just nevermind.

[Electrod47]

I have all types of steel targets on my home range. 22LR is the most notorious for coming back at you. I use 1/4" for the 22's now. The thicker targets for my big bores don't "give" for the 22's and they can ricochet pretty far. Plus if you have any pock marks on steel they can grab a 22 and turn it around pretty quick.

[JohnKSa]

Still having problems here w/ the aero probability of a thin sliver as described making a 150-ft trip directly back to point of origin.

1. It seems far more likely than a bullet fragment traveling through the rifle receiver without leaving a hole and hitting the shooter on the the opposite side as the ejection port. I would say that's completely impossible, as opposed to just very unlikely.

2. It's possible that what actually came back at the shooter was larger than just a sliver of lead, but the sliver is all that stuck in the shooter's cheek.

3. If the target is cratered, it can throw material back at the shooter from surprisingly long ranges. Searching the web did turn up an incident or two of people who have had issues with bounceback with rimfires at 50 yards.

Found an interesting caveat on a steel target seller's website. They stated that none of their targets are rated for "subsonic rimfire ammo". I'd never thought about that, but I guess they're saying that if the bullet isn't moving fast enough, it may not fragment sufficiently on impact with the target to be safe .

[FrankenMauser]

Well, the last two posts are just wrong.The chamber opening is on the right side of the rifle. The piece of lead hit him on the left side of his face after the round was fired.

I've seen it happen quite a few times with .22 LR and a few with jacketed bullets - far more times than a 50 yard return of a particle with substantial aerodynamic drag.

And when I've experienced it or seen it happen to other people, it has always been a curved and oddly-shaped piece of lead (or jacket).

I have a video that I shot last year, in which I caught close-up slow-motion of an Out Of Battery (OOB) discharge in an AR-22.
When the OOB ruptured the case, a twisted and slightly curved piece of it (about 1/16", tapering up to 1/8", by about 3/16" long) flew out of the gap between the bolt and chamber, up, back, and around the upper receiver, and hit me just below the left lens of my glasses. It drew a little blood and got caught in my mustache.

Two years ago, a friend of mine was standing about 7 feet to the right and behind another friend that was shooting a Calico M900 (9mm carbine version). Top-feed, bottom-eject. Something "popped" in the Calico and the friend standing behind grabbed his face.
Long story short, the case ruptured and a rather small fragment of the case web managed to twist and fly its way not just up, back, and over to him, but around his safety glasses and into his right eye.
He is now blind in his right eye, even after multiple surgeries to try to save the nerve.


JohnKSa does make a good point. The fragment that your friend caught could have been a larger object that only left behind the sliver. I have caught many bits of ricochet debris in my life, and many of them left no debris or only small fragments where they contacted me.

Found an interesting caveat on a steel target seller's website. They stated that none of their targets are rated for "subsonic rimfire ammo". I'd never thought about that, but I guess they're saying that if the bullet isn't moving fast enough, it may not fragment sufficiently on impact with the target to be safe .

I bought a rather expensive "rimfire" target set that was highly recommended.
Rated for "all rimfire rounds - rifle and handgun".
No, I did not go stupid and start smacking them with .41 Swiss RF or .44 Henry. That is not where this story goes.

During a practice session with my son and our .22 LR match rifles, I pulled out my Marlin 882SS in .22 WMR and fired a magazine or two.
As we were packing up later, I noticed that my KYL targets were bent, and a few of the hanging targets were cratered and bent.

I sent an email to the manufacturer, asking if they were actually rated for "ALL rimfire" cartridges, including .22 WMR, and possibly .17 HMR and .17 WSM, not just .22 LR.
His response was, roughly, "Those are hunting cartridges. Nobody shoots targets with those! My targets are for .22 rimfire only!"
After a few more emails back and forth, he still could not understand that ".22 rimfire" and "all rimfire" is not the same as ".22 LR target ammunition only".

[GGALLIN1776]

Whilst I'm unsure of all types of firearms, for rifle calibers (both intermediate & full sized) you should be atleast 100 yards back from the steel.

You can do some anti-spall coating with a generous helping of either rubberized vehicle undercoating, roofing tar or flex-seal...however the audible ringing will be reduced. Do one coat in the midday sun, let it dry & apply a few more coats until you're happy with the results.

There's no guarantee that will do the trick so you may want to switch to a "self healing" target or the safest option of paper/board with a healthy backstop of compacted dirt & tires.

It goes without saying, but eye protection is a must as annoying as it seems. I've had enough nasty ophthalmic injuries & subsequent injections in my eyeballs (those are agonizing) to convince me that either glasses or goggles are on or I'm not partaking.