April 23, 2009, 09:38 PM | #1 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 19, 2004
Location: michigan
Posts: 578
|
SA cartridge guns
what about the non colt, non ruger, non freedom arms, and non usfa handguns. How are they at taking lots of lead at high velocity?
Any better with 180 grain slugs in a 357 then others, or only stick to 158? And how do the ones in 44 spcl handle 200 grain bullets at 1000fps? |
April 24, 2009, 03:17 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,190
|
I can't help you with the .357/44 spcl. but my Uberti 44-40's handle 200 grainers just fine at 1000 fps.
|
April 27, 2009, 01:13 PM | #3 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 30, 2006
Posts: 504
|
Uh, I would keep the reloads at factory spec...
Back in the 1930s, Charlie Askins wrote that the .357 peacemakers were prone to springing frames and the likes due to the recoil of that hot potato round. Of course, back then, Colt had not started heat treating their handguns yet, and while modern replicas are made from better steels and heat treated than victorian era originals, its still a good idea to show some respect to the old designs. |
April 27, 2009, 02:13 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 877
|
While I don't have thousands of rounds down range with them yet, both of my Uberti .357s handle factory spec .357 just fine and with no signs of stress in either the cases or the frame that I can see. But I guess my question is why do you ask? Factory .357 is plenty hot as it is and these guns are not exactly optimized for handgun hunting so perhaps a bit more info re. your query might be helpful?
Over time I guess I always worry about .357 flame cutting my top strap and/or eroding the forcing cone in every .357 I've got so even in my modern .357s I tend to avoid them unless the load is mission specific. What mission do you have in mind? Thanks, Oly |
April 28, 2009, 07:35 AM | #5 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 2, 2009
Posts: 381
|
OP: I'd err on the safe side, if you want to shoot high velocity 357 magnum loads from a SA pistol, get a modern gun w/hardened, heat treated frame, barrel, and cylinder.
Ruger makes relatively low-cost modern SA guns that handle all the popular magnum calibers. The internals on a Ruger are bigger/stronger than the real Colt SAA to boot. Not worth risking your eyesight, or life over. Low bucking it with a BP/cowboy action frame/cylinder can lead to disaster- what's your eyes worth. |
May 1, 2009, 11:48 AM | #6 | ||
Junior member
Join Date: November 28, 2001
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 4,300
|
I have to disagree with some of the sentiments above. You'd be hard-pressed to hurt a SAA or replica in .357. They are plenty of gun for the cartridge and stronger than any mid-frame double action, less prone to shoot loose than N-frames. A good modern SAA or replica .44Spl will also handle the 1200fps Keith load, though most would suggest using them sparingly. So 1000fps is handled easily, most like the 7.5gr Unique "Skeeter" load for general purposes.
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
May 1, 2009, 12:48 PM | #7 |
Junior member
Join Date: April 2, 2009
Posts: 381
|
Craig, I'd have to disagree with you, and with a large degree of prejudice. A Ruger is vastly superior to an imported single action gun from Italy, be it cartridge or cap/ball- that's been documented and tested, years ago.
Put a full-house 357 magnum load in a "cowboy" action Italian repro gun, and it is going to blow the cylinder apart in short order. Magnum cylinders are hardened/heat treated all the way through- cowboy action guns from Italy are as soft as a crayon- the case hardening only hardens the outer .010" or so of the cylinder. you are recommending some very dangerous shooting practices here, and someone following them can end up losing their eyesight, or their life. Do you want that responsibility, and are you willing to risk a personal injury lawsuit with those recommendations ? see quote below on Ruger heat treat compared to Italian repros |
May 1, 2009, 12:59 PM | #8 |
Staff
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,845
|
Too bad it's out of line with SWAT magazine, but I'd love to see some validation tests on the guns. I've known for years that some Spanish and Italian gunmakers did use softer steel (back in the mid '70s), but they have to pass proofing and there's a lot of liability associated with releasing a defective product on the market. Everyone in the chain of commerce gets their pants sued off. Even if you don't get sued, paying off your attorney will amount to a princely sum.
The big gun factories are equipped with metallurgy labs. I know S&W and Ruger both have them (been to both factories). I'd love to see them run tests, but they're reluctant to spend time and effort to prove a competitor's design is bad or poorly executed. If we left it to a private lab, the antis will get hold of the results and tout the results as a basis for more restrictions ("See, they're unsafe and blow up like handgrenades when you fill the it up to the brim with Bullseye" :barf. As far as brass frames are concerned, the Confederacy resorted to brass as a measure of expediency and not because they thought it was the ideal metal for guns. Naturally, one cannot expect brass to withstand the pounding that a modern manufactured (and heat treated) gun can take. For those with brass frames, it is advisable to keep the load mild. It's all for sport and fun and no one is going into combat with them. Anyone seeking the latter should use a metallic cartridge gun - preferably a long arm. As with anything, do things within reason, remember caveat emptor when buying and don't try making your blackpowder guns into hand cannons. I don't have any replicas handguns and with the exception of a couple of Colts, all my single actions are Rugers (including my Old Armies).
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe! |
May 1, 2009, 01:50 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 8, 2006
Location: Northern Michigan
Posts: 2,772
|
Quote:
|
|
May 1, 2009, 02:13 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa
Posts: 2,203
|
Quote:
While I don't advocate exceeding the design intent of a given gun, broadly implying that "soft" steel is somehow unsafe in a gun, demonstrates ignorance or maybe even dishonesty. I've personally machined nearly every steel imaginable and I can say that the difference between cutting "mushy" 1018 and something more substantial, such as 4150, is hardly noticeable. In general, steel is pretty strong stuff and soft does not necessarily equal weak or unworthy for a given application.
__________________
grym |
|
May 1, 2009, 02:31 PM | #11 | |
Junior member
Join Date: November 28, 2001
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 4,300
|
Quote:
So, PROVE IT!!! In a discussion about cartridge guns, why the hell are you even bringing up percussion guns like the Old Army. |
|
May 1, 2009, 02:45 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 16, 2008
Location: Behind a computer
Posts: 100
|
It is getting hard to read this nonsense over and over.
|
May 1, 2009, 06:28 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2008
Posts: 669
|
Well i told you guys, captain knows how to
press your buttons, and you fall for it,
__________________
Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson. |
May 10, 2009, 12:54 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 19, 2005
Location: Nevada
Posts: 1,146
|
I've shot max (Keith) 2400 loads in 45colt Cimarrons with no ill effect whatsoever. Primers looked great, cases slid out and great accuracy in fact. Those cylinder walls are a lot thinner than ones in 357. The fixed solid base pin and large 45 sized cylinders of the SA design allow your run of the mill uberti 357 to outlast any DA simply by design. Remember Colt used to be the strongest design sorta like Rugers today. So anyone who thinks your limited to 600fps cowboy action loads in replicas ought to read more than just the Ruger articles.
|
May 10, 2009, 08:20 AM | #15 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 2, 2007
Location: Northern Orygun
Posts: 4,923
|
Quote:
I may start using that as a sig line. My hats off to mykeal. |
|
|
|