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#1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
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Legal use of pepper spray?
I was reading an article about how a bunch of protestors continually harassed supporters at a Trump Rally.
In one video, a man was continually harassed as he was leaving, being shoved, and if I'm not mistaken, continually punched at by a mob of punks. The question I have, is if this person repeatedly told them to leave him alone, and they refused to do so, does he have the right to pull out and utilize pepper spray to fend them off. |
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#2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,822
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Yep..
Defensive sprays like OC (pepper spray) are able to be used at a MUCH lower threshhold then a firearm. Any psyscial assault or EVEN the threat of same, when your assailant has the Abillty, Opportunity and has swown the Intent to assault you, can legally justify the use of OC. Now, TACTICALLY, that may or may not be the best choice, but from a defensible use of force standpoint, its legal. |
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#3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
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In a couple of the attacks, I'm not so sure the use of a firearm would not be warranted : multiple assailants, receiving blows, clearly out of control.
Why the police stood aside for 90 minutes and allowed this to occur needs clearly explained. Failure to separate the two factions was a major error, a dozen people could have been stabbed or badly beaten in one or two minutes of mayhem. |
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#4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 28, 2008
Posts: 10,442
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At close range like that, the pepper spray is probably as likely to affect the defender as anyone else.
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#5 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2001
Location: Down East in NC
Posts: 220
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#6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
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When I was working as Shore Patrol in the Navy. I had a fellow SP let go with a long blast of pepper spray in a 10X10 room. I wanted to strangle him but he was in as much distress as I was.
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USNRET '61-'81 |
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#7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,822
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Yep...indoor usage is a problem. Especially with some spray patterns...fogs
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#8 | |
Member
Join Date: January 8, 2015
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 34
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
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Fair enough assessment there. That did cross my mind, since the use of pepper spray could and likely would escalate the situation beyond just shoving and occasional punching. It's a delicate situation that could easily boil over.
The real question I feel is where were the police during the entire fiasco? Why was it allowed to persist for as long as it did. I understand they can't be everywhere, but shouldn't this stuff have been planned for in advance? It's pretty clear to anyone who hasn't been living under a rock, that this events are highly controversial and ripe for social unrest events to occur. |
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#10 | |
Member
Join Date: January 8, 2015
Location: Tempe,AZ
Posts: 34
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#11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
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The mayor now has a problem, violating the civil rights of the rally attendees. All he had to do was order the groups be kept separate, and he completely failed to do that.
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#12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 2, 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,171
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Ah, so the plot thickens, if that information is indeed true. How sad, his political pandering apparently takes priority over the safety of the people.
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#13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
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The acceptable use of a non-lethal weapon are pretty much the same as use of a firearm, to stop an assault or when there is a reasonable belief that an assault is about to happen.
Using the Trump rally example veers real close to politics. Reports from both sides are different. One side says the use of pepper spray is justified and the other that it is not. Who you believe depends more on politics than evidence. |
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#14 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,822
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#15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
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"...wanted to strangle him but..." Not issuing the sticks any more? snicker.
Like Kimio says, the real question is where were the cops and Donny's security guys? "...The mayor now has a problem..." Not unless he ordered the local PD not to do anything about protestors. Hisonner didn't violate anybody's rights otherwise. |
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#16 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,126
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Quote:
So what are the lower standards for pepper spray if assault or fear of assault are too high a standard? |
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#17 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 9,149
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#18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 4, 2013
Location: Western slope of Colorado
Posts: 3,822
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Quote:
If someone is stealing my lawn mower, killing them seems (at least to me) a bit excessive. Having used (and seen used) deadly force, both in the US and abroad, i could not condone shooting someone over any property |
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#19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
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I can't say about any other state, but, in PA use of deadly force to protect property is a legal no no. Use of deadly force in PA may only be used in the case of immediate threat of great bodily harm or death.
A stand your ground law was passed a couple of years ago. It is worded such that the assailant must have a weapon of some sort in hand.
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USNRET '61-'81 |
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