Anyone have experience with Rainier bullets?

Gopher a 45 · February 5, 2000, 07:42 PM

Hello all,

I have some Rainier bullets (.45 200SWC and 200JHP) I just ordered out of the Dillon catalog, since they were jacketed and relatively cheap. Does anyone have any experience with these bullets? I loaded up some and may have discovered the reason they're so cheap. After shooting, I was digging some out of the dirt (yes, I was the only one there and yes, I'm a little weird to be mining for spent bullets) and the JHP ones I recovered had expanded nicely (I know dirt is hardly the medium to test hollowpoint expansion in, still...), but it looked like the jackets were "rippled" in a way. So, I think they're saving money on jacket material. Does this affect how they shoot or anything else I should know about? Oh yes, they were pretty accurate too.

John

**Mal H** · February 5, 2000, 08:27 PM

You might want to check the catalog description again. Rainiers are not jacketed they are copper plated. They are very good bullets but you have to have good load data for them as they are not loaded the same as jacketed bullets. The rippled plating is not unusual after hitting a hard substance.

**Bud Helms** · February 6, 2000, 06:27 AM

Mal,

Please tell me more about why you need to load these Raniers different from a jacketed bullet load.

Gopher,

If you're dissatisfied with the Raniers, I'll buy what you have left over.

[This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 06, 2000).]

Randall Shaw · February 6, 2000, 06:57 AM

I've have good luck with Rainier , I reloaded at least 6000 now and have another 1500 waiting on the bench .
Shop around you can find them at cheaper prices if you buy large amounts.

------------------
If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!

**Mal H** · February 6, 2000, 11:49 AM

sensop - Huh?

Rainiers are electro-plated lead and are loaded more towards the lead loads than copper jacketed loads. Is that not true?

It's a matter of velocity. I think that if you load them as if they were jacketed their velocity would suffer. They won't lead a barrel like unplated lead, so you can load them to the vel. of jacketed bullets but it'll take a little more powder.

[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited February 06, 2000).]

PumpBlast · February 7, 2000, 04:12 AM

I have noticed that in some guns they are difficult to feed. I loaded some 124gr HP and tried to shoot them in my Taurus PT-111. Because the PT-111 has such a steep feed ramp they tended to jam up. They worked like a charm in my Beretta though. I live across the street from a guy who used to work for Rainier. He said they did quite a lot of testing with gelatin and that the HP's fared very well. Even outperforming some of the Hollowpoint competition. For the record, he made these comments AFTER he quit the company.

------------------
Gun control is People Control

**Bud Helms** · February 7, 2000, 05:38 AM

Mal,

Okay, I see what you mean.

I do "load down" some and don't try to exceed the 900 fps barrier (usually closer to 800 fps). I'm talking .45 ACP only.

But, I have never had a leading problem in any .45 ACP load, even with unjacketed bullets.

Feed ramp polished, breech face polished, shallow rifling in polished bore, 800 - 900 fps, decent bullets ... how could it lead up?

SVSUPER · February 7, 2000, 09:37 AM

You do not load plated bullets any different than you do a jacket bullet. They will both with stand the velocity and pressure. I have been running a plated bullet in my ipsc open gun with velocities of @ 1550 fps and i have never experienced any problem, using the same powder charge i used for a jacketed bullet.

**Mal H** · February 7, 2000, 11:14 AM

You might load plated bullets the same as jacketed bullets, but you're also going to get a higher velocity if you do. Their ability to withstand anything was not the point. You won't get that 1550 fps with a jacketed bullet, all other factors being the same.

jtduncan · February 7, 2000, 12:55 PM

I've loaded Rainers and Berry's copper-plated bullets in 9mm and .45 acp and had excellent accuacy.

Sub 2" groups at 25 yards with all of my Glocks and Sigs except the HKP7s which do sub 1" groups. Weaver stance, strong side, one shot a second and a half.

Load them to FMJ data but they are a tad softer than the jacketed stuff.

Shop around. Dillon isn't the best price.

You can buy them local at mail order prices and have them instantly!

------------------
The Seattle SharpShooter

Tree Rat · February 7, 2000, 01:26 PM

I`m loading .40S&W 155 FP`s (restruck) to 1200 FPS with no problems. Accuracy is excellent and it duplicates hot factory loads like the WW Silvetip. The gun is a H&K USP. Tree Rat.

Gopher a 45 · February 8, 2000, 01:31 PM

Thanks to all for the info. Got to learn to read the info a little closer. "Caveat Emptor" indeed! For the record, I'm not unhappy with the bullets by any stretch, I was simply curious as to the effects I had seen and the plating explains that nicely, thanks. The HPs do seem to expand nicely. I'll shop around for cheaper prices on them, but they weren't exorbitant and my choices are limited here as far as shops go (I don't have time to drive into Houston a lot). Does anyone have any favorite loads for .45 for plated bullets?

Northwest Cajun · February 8, 2000, 04:55 PM

Gopher,
I shoot Rainier exclusively, After looking in my books and on the web, My favorite .45 load is 4.0gr of bullseye. I use that for the 200gr SWC and 230gr RN both shoot well in my S/S series 80 colt. It took a little bit of experimenting with seating depth with the SWC's 1.250 works the best so far.
Next will be240gr FP .44 mag with H110.
I found my dealer through their webpage www.rainierballistics.com I just happen to live in Tacoma Wa. not far from where they are made.

Good luck
Cajun

Gopher a 45 · February 8, 2000, 07:09 PM

Whooo! My 16th ed. Speer loading manual lists that as below minimum I think. I've been using 5g and up! Guess I'll cut down a little to save on the powder and wear-and-tear on the gun. Lotsa people here from the sunny NW. I used to live there during my formative years and I'd like to go back, but the unbroken weeks of clouds get on my nerves, what with currently being used to Texas weather. Weird mix of politics in that state. What's the latest on the Tim Eyeman's propositions, BTW? When I was there over Christmas, the papers were all acting like the world had come to an end. Cheers,

John

P.S. thanks for the load data.

TheOtherMikey · February 8, 2000, 11:43 PM

I use a whole lot of Ranier copper plated lead bullets. I think last year I used around 4 thousand for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. These are exceptionally fine projectiles and help me out a lot with lead fouling. I like the 155 Gr for the Smith and the 200 gr SWC for the Colt.

Needless to say, I am very happy with the Raniers. I use a load between the published lead and FMJ loads. Remember, the copper plated isn't a jacket but neither is it bare lead.

Regards, Mikey

TheOtherMikey · February 8, 2000, 11:48 PM

I use a whole lot of Ranier copper plated lead bullets. I think last year I used around 4 thousand for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. These are exceptionally fine projectiles and help me out a lot with lead fouling. I like the 155 Gr for the Smith and the 200 gr SWC for the Colt.

Needless to say, I am very happy with the Raniers. I use a load between the published lead and FMJ loads. Remember, the copper plated isn't a jacket but neither is it bare lead.

Regards, Mikey

John Marshall · February 10, 2000, 12:23 AM

Rainier Ballistics "Leadsafe" bullets are, IMHO, very good. But their reason for being is not to compete with JHP's or SWC's, they are made for use at indoor ranges that do not allow the use of any projectile with exposed lead. The fact that Rainier cares enough to make their bullets to exacting standards is an added bonus.

------------------
If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.

PumpBlast · February 10, 2000, 05:00 AM

Hey Northwest Cajun, Looks like we're neighbors. I live in Puyallup. As a matter of fact, me and the brother are gonna be shootin' some of those Rainiers in the morning (Thursday) out at The Tacoma Sportsmans Club.

Gopher,

That Tim Eymann jackass got his way with the cheap license tabs. Oh well...No sense in crying about it.

Tree Rat · February 10, 2000, 11:43 AM

Anyone in the MD/VA/NC area might want to be aware of Mac`s reloads. He sells the Rainier line and does the Richmond, Va Showplace gun show to name a few. I got my .40S&W 155 FP`s for 63.00 per 1000. Of course picking them up at the show eliminates the shipping. Anybody really interested....I`ll look up the number and show schedule. Tree Rat.

petej88 · February 11, 2000, 11:36 AM

Rainier seems to work well. But it does leave shavings in the barrel. But that doesn't seem to hurt accuracy and cleaning the barrel is quite easy. Any thoughts?

Gopher a 45 · February 11, 2000, 03:37 PM

Hmmmm. I checked the box of Rainier bullets and it says right there "Total Copper JACKETED" yet they admit they are copper PLATED. What the heck?

BMiracle · February 13, 2000, 11:53 AM

I ahve been loading the Rainier bullets in my 9mm for quite awhile. Both the 115gr funnelpoints and the 124 grain restrike flat points. They can withstand great velocity as I have also reloaded them in 357 SIG. Great expansion and great accuracy. They are all I shoot. I have never experinced any feed problems whatsoever (however I shoot them through Glocks and a Beretta...not a PT111 which are prone to jams anyway!)

February 5, 2000, 07:42 PM	#1
Gopher a 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 329	Hello all, I have some Rainier bullets (.45 200SWC and 200JHP) I just ordered out of the Dillon catalog, since they were jacketed and relatively cheap. Does anyone have any experience with these bullets? I loaded up some and may have discovered the reason they're so cheap. After shooting, I was digging some out of the dirt (yes, I was the only one there and yes, I'm a little weird to be mining for spent bullets) and the JHP ones I recovered had expanded nicely (I know dirt is hardly the medium to test hollowpoint expansion in, still...), but it looked like the jackets were "rippled" in a way. So, I think they're saving money on jacket material. Does this affect how they shoot or anything else I should know about? Oh yes, they were pretty accurate too. John

February 5, 2000, 08:27 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	You might want to check the catalog description again. Rainiers are not jacketed they are copper plated. They are very good bullets but you have to have good load data for them as they are not loaded the same as jacketed bullets. The rippled plating is not unusual after hitting a hard substance.

February 6, 2000, 06:27 AM	#3
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Mal, Please tell me more about why you need to load these Raniers different from a jacketed bullet load. Gopher, If you're dissatisfied with the Raniers, I'll buy what you have left over. [This message has been edited by sensop (edited February 06, 2000).]

February 6, 2000, 06:57 AM	#4
Randall Shaw Member Join Date: December 26, 1999 Location: Palmdale,Ca,USA Posts: 44	I've have good luck with Rainier , I reloaded at least 6000 now and have another 1500 waiting on the bench . Shop around you can find them at cheaper prices if you buy large amounts. ------------------ If it can't shoot jacketed rat turds powered by mouse farts, I ain't gonna shoot it!

February 6, 2000, 11:49 AM	#5
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	sensop - Huh? Rainiers are electro-plated lead and are loaded more towards the lead loads than copper jacketed loads. Is that not true? It's a matter of velocity. I think that if you load them as if they were jacketed their velocity would suffer. They won't lead a barrel like unplated lead, so you can load them to the vel. of jacketed bullets but it'll take a little more powder. [This message has been edited by Mal H (edited February 06, 2000).]

February 7, 2000, 04:12 AM	#6
PumpBlast Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Posts: 45	I have noticed that in some guns they are difficult to feed. I loaded some 124gr HP and tried to shoot them in my Taurus PT-111. Because the PT-111 has such a steep feed ramp they tended to jam up. They worked like a charm in my Beretta though. I live across the street from a guy who used to work for Rainier. He said they did quite a lot of testing with gelatin and that the HP's fared very well. Even outperforming some of the Hollowpoint competition. For the record, he made these comments AFTER he quit the company. ------------------ Gun control is People Control

February 7, 2000, 05:38 AM	#7
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	Mal, Okay, I see what you mean. I do "load down" some and don't try to exceed the 900 fps barrier (usually closer to 800 fps). I'm talking .45 ACP only. But, I have never had a leading problem in any .45 ACP load, even with unjacketed bullets. Feed ramp polished, breech face polished, shallow rifling in polished bore, 800 - 900 fps, decent bullets ... how could it lead up?

February 7, 2000, 09:37 AM	#8
SVSUPER Member Join Date: February 3, 2000 Posts: 30	You do not load plated bullets any different than you do a jacket bullet. They will both with stand the velocity and pressure. I have been running a plated bullet in my ipsc open gun with velocities of @ 1550 fps and i have never experienced any problem, using the same powder charge i used for a jacketed bullet.

February 7, 2000, 11:14 AM	#9
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	You might load plated bullets the same as jacketed bullets, but you're also going to get a higher velocity if you do. Their ability to withstand anything was not the point. You won't get that 1550 fps with a jacketed bullet, all other factors being the same.

February 7, 2000, 12:55 PM	#10
jtduncan Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 1,686	I've loaded Rainers and Berry's copper-plated bullets in 9mm and .45 acp and had excellent accuacy. Sub 2" groups at 25 yards with all of my Glocks and Sigs except the HKP7s which do sub 1" groups. Weaver stance, strong side, one shot a second and a half. Load them to FMJ data but they are a tad softer than the jacketed stuff. Shop around. Dillon isn't the best price. You can buy them local at mail order prices and have them instantly! ------------------ *The Seattle SharpShooter*

February 7, 2000, 01:26 PM	#11
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	I`m loading .40S&W 155 FP`s (restruck) to 1200 FPS with no problems. Accuracy is excellent and it duplicates hot factory loads like the WW Silvetip. The gun is a H&K USP. Tree Rat.

February 8, 2000, 01:31 PM	#12
Gopher a 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 329	Thanks to all for the info. Got to learn to read the info a little closer. "Caveat Emptor" indeed! For the record, I'm not unhappy with the bullets by any stretch, I was simply curious as to the effects I had seen and the plating explains that nicely, thanks. The HPs do seem to expand nicely. I'll shop around for cheaper prices on them, but they weren't exorbitant and my choices are limited here as far as shops go (I don't have time to drive into Houston a lot). Does anyone have any favorite loads for .45 for plated bullets?

February 8, 2000, 04:55 PM	#13
Northwest Cajun Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 1999 Location: Spanaway Wa. &Lafayette La,(Cajun Country) Posts: 189	Gopher, I shoot Rainier exclusively, After looking in my books and on the web, My favorite .45 load is 4.0gr of bullseye. I use that for the 200gr SWC and 230gr RN both shoot well in my S/S series 80 colt. It took a little bit of experimenting with seating depth with the SWC's 1.250 works the best so far. Next will be240gr FP .44 mag with H110. I found my dealer through their webpage www.rainierballistics.com I just happen to live in Tacoma Wa. not far from where they are made. Good luck Cajun

February 8, 2000, 07:09 PM	#14
Gopher a 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 329	Whooo! My 16th ed. Speer loading manual lists that as below minimum I think. I've been using 5g and up! Guess I'll cut down a little to save on the powder and wear-and-tear on the gun. Lotsa people here from the sunny NW. I used to live there during my formative years and I'd like to go back, but the unbroken weeks of clouds get on my nerves, what with currently being used to Texas weather. Weird mix of politics in that state. What's the latest on the Tim Eyeman's propositions, BTW? When I was there over Christmas, the papers were all acting like the world had come to an end. Cheers, John P.S. thanks for the load data.

February 8, 2000, 11:43 PM	#15
TheOtherMikey Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1999 Location: Surprise, Arizona, USA Posts: 171	I use a whole lot of Ranier copper plated lead bullets. I think last year I used around 4 thousand for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. These are exceptionally fine projectiles and help me out a lot with lead fouling. I like the 155 Gr for the Smith and the 200 gr SWC for the Colt. Needless to say, I am very happy with the Raniers. I use a load between the published lead and FMJ loads. Remember, the copper plated isn't a jacket but neither is it bare lead. Regards, Mikey

February 8, 2000, 11:48 PM	#16
TheOtherMikey Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1999 Location: Surprise, Arizona, USA Posts: 171	I use a whole lot of Ranier copper plated lead bullets. I think last year I used around 4 thousand for .40 S&W and .45 ACP. These are exceptionally fine projectiles and help me out a lot with lead fouling. I like the 155 Gr for the Smith and the 200 gr SWC for the Colt. Needless to say, I am very happy with the Raniers. I use a load between the published lead and FMJ loads. Remember, the copper plated isn't a jacket but neither is it bare lead. Regards, Mikey

February 10, 2000, 12:23 AM	#17
John Marshall Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2000 Posts: 434	Rainier Ballistics "Leadsafe" bullets are, IMHO, very good. But their reason for being is not to compete with JHP's or SWC's, they are made for use at indoor ranges that do not allow the use of any projectile with exposed lead. The fact that Rainier cares enough to make their bullets to exacting standards is an added bonus. ------------------ If you're not a little upset with the way the world is going, you're not paying attention.

February 10, 2000, 05:00 AM	#18
PumpBlast Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Posts: 45	Hey Northwest Cajun, Looks like we're neighbors. I live in Puyallup. As a matter of fact, me and the brother are gonna be shootin' some of those Rainiers in the morning (Thursday) out at The Tacoma Sportsmans Club. Gopher, That Tim Eymann jackass got his way with the cheap license tabs. Oh well...No sense in crying about it.

February 10, 2000, 11:43 AM	#19
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	Anyone in the MD/VA/NC area might want to be aware of Mac`s reloads. He sells the Rainier line and does the Richmond, Va Showplace gun show to name a few. I got my .40S&W 155 FP`s for 63.00 per 1000. Of course picking them up at the show eliminates the shipping. Anybody really interested....I`ll look up the number and show schedule. Tree Rat.

February 11, 2000, 11:36 AM	#20
petej88 Senior Member Join Date: November 7, 1999 Location: US Posts: 510	Rainier seems to work well. But it does leave shavings in the barrel. But that doesn't seem to hurt accuracy and cleaning the barrel is quite easy. Any thoughts?

February 11, 2000, 03:37 PM	#21
Gopher a 45 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Posts: 329	Hmmmm. I checked the box of Rainier bullets and it says right there "Total Copper JACKETED" yet they admit they are copper PLATED. What the heck?

February 13, 2000, 11:53 AM	#22
BMiracle Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 159	I ahve been loading the Rainier bullets in my 9mm for quite awhile. Both the 115gr funnelpoints and the 124 grain restrike flat points. They can withstand great velocity as I have also reloaded them in 357 SIG. Great expansion and great accuracy. They are all I shoot. I have never experinced any feed problems whatsoever (however I shoot them through Glocks and a Beretta...not a PT111 which are prone to jams anyway!)