A-tips anyone?

[stagpanther]

Has anyone tried Hornady's a-tips yet? I watched their explanation of the difference between it and the eld--but didn't hear anything mentioned performance wise other than it's made of aluminum. I have .243 and .264 on the way--couldn't find anything else.

[stagpanther]

Well they came in and pretty impressive, each one is individually encased and it appears there's even a polishing cloth (same as a lens cloth??). I'll measure and weigh them for consistency when I get around to loading them--right now I'm working on some handgun loads.

[Bart B.]

From Hornady:

Doppler radar verified low drag coefficient (high BC) bullets are forgiving of twist rate, seating depth and muzzle velocity.

Informed ballisticians know a given bullet needs a specific twist rate for a given muzzle velocity to have lowest drag and best accuracy. Why else does 7.62 NATO M80 ammo's 147 grain bullets leaving 2700 fps from a short 20" barrel need a 11" twist for best accuracy but a long 30" barrel producing over 3000 fps needs a 14" twist?

[stagpanther]

Informed ballisticians know a given bullet needs a specific twist rate for a given muzzle velocity to have lowest drag and best accuracy. Why else does 7.62 NATO M80 ammo's 147 grain bullets leaving 2700 fps from a short 20" barrel need a 11" twist for best accuracy but a long 30" barrel producing over 3000 fps needs a 14" twist?

I think that is kind of implicit in their recommendation to use G7 coefficient at longer ranges as a "truer" calculation of the projectile's longer range performance?

[cw308]

I shoot Rem 700 in 308 for benchrest shooting only , the bullet I shoot is the Sierra 168 MK . I gave the Hornady A Max 168's a try and they shot just as good as the Sierra's everything being exactly the same. I still shoot Sierra's but I wouldn't hesitate to order the A Max in a pinch . With the red tip the bullet looks more precise if measuring OAL

[hounddawg]

at $70 - $80 per 100 they make Bergers look cheap, I doubt they would help me center my groups or improve my wind skills any better than SMK's and Nosler CC's at half the price

[stagpanther]

I've tested a couple of loads--one with PP 4000MR and the other with Ramshot Magnum. The PP loads I used starline large primer brass--and the magnum I used Lapua small primer brass. In both cases, I found both Hornady's and Western's published listings for max loads to be over capacity for either case--even when I ran them at longer COL's. Even with my reduced loads I was equaling their max velocities at lower charge weights--and that was out of my 22" AR barrel compared to their 24" barrel used for testing. The only reason I can see for the difference in Hornady's case is that they group the charge weights for the 110 a-tip along with their smaller 105 and 108 bullets--I would exercise caution using their upper end loads--especially using Lapua small primer brass (which I'm guessing has slightly less capacity due to slightly more robust brass than starline's).

[stagpanther]

Tried again and things went from bad to worse--I was getting "shotgun sprays" of 5" at 100 yds, I was utterly stumped as to what was going on, though all my reloads--regardless of powder or case used--are running at about 200 fps faster than both published data and QL data. Generally the only pressure signs have been cratered primers--even without resizing all the cases show no signs of expansion or flow, though a couple of my older starline cases did blow primers on hot loads (I knew they were getting on the loose side). I figured I might have a problem with headspacing, so I took the upper apart cleaned, checked and double checked (using gauges and case chambering methods), reassembled and everything seems to check out OK. I took the comp off and put a thread protector thinking maybe something in the comp baffles may have gone bad. I still can't get the a-tips to group very well, I know weight isn't a factor since I have a 1:7 twist that stabilizes 115 gr rdf's fine.

After reassemble I picked a random reload of 105 vld's loaded with 40.5 grs of H4350--and while it grouped pretty well the SD was still quite high and the velocities were again 200 fps faster than what data says they should be. Primers continue to show signs of cratering, though that might possibly be the firing pin is a bit sharp--I'll blunt the nose next.




I'm wondering if others have experienced this as well?

[hounddawg]

There may be a trick to shooting them but I will never find out. Perfectly happy with my 107 SMK load, not going to burn out a barrel looking for anything better

[stagpanther]

There may be a trick to shooting them but I will never find out. Perfectly happy with my 107 SMK load, not going to burn out a barrel looking for anything better

Are you shooting out of an auto-loader? I'm very concerned about this--not for my gun because I build up to the loads; but because I've run across this issue across many published loads. I'm still not quite sure why the published data yields significantly higher velocity (and presumably pressure) than what I think is safe in my gun.

[hounddawg]

6 CM bolt gun, good for about 1500 RC. I get sub MOA groups of 20 shots at 300 using 107 Sierras which I can find for about .35 cents per bullet. Pretty sure that is about the best I can get with my old eyes and a garage built gun. The load works why change it ?

https://thefiringline.com/forums/att...1&d=1559840943

[stagpanther]

edit

[cw308]

Once I found a round that grouped good consistently , I stayed with it after 1800 through the barrel 168 gr. SMK 308 . Now I have 3600 round count and it's still shooting good . Load work is fun and frustrating , once I was satisfied with the accuracy I stopped tweaking and got back to enjoying shooting . Better riding home with a smile on my face the being a grump on the road .
PS: Reloaders new to the game should get some trigger time under their belt and knowing how good a shooter they are or reloading could drive them mad . Is it me or the reloads . Just imagine a person that can't shoot the broad side of a barn from the inside reloading . Not a good combination .

[hounddawg]

Ahh--bolt gun--and 6.5 at that; probably a bit different from my situation.

reread my post the target was shot with a 6.0 Creedmoor not a 6.5. Like CW I feel no need to try and improve on what is working. If I wanted to shoot high dollar bullets I would go with a full custom like Bart's 105 gn Hammer for $550 per 1000 but I think the SMKs are shooting better than my rifle skills can match

[stagpanther]

My eyes are worse than your's--I could swear the original post said 6.5; time to check the senility meter.

[stagpanther]

I just tried the a-tips out out of curiosity--and I don't think my results are indicative of how good they really are. Generally I've had very good results with Hornady bullets in autoloaders--in fact I think they're among the best in the business.

[hounddawg]

I just think $70 a hundred is way overpriced. I can buy customs for less than that if/when I ever think my shooting skills and gear are up to using them. I am seeing myself trying LR Benchrest in a year or two. Maybe then I can justify 75 cent bullets then.

[stagpanther]

OK--you've said repeatedly you think they are over-priced. Point taken. I don't expect you or anyone else to buy them if you think they are a rip-off.

[hounddawg]

sorry to beat a dead horse, just that I was and still am shocked at that price.

[stagpanther]

Have decided to replace the bolt with a JP enhanced high-pressure one. Not so much because I intend on firing higher pressure cartridges, but apparently the smaller pin higher strength bolt face design reduces primer flow.

[stagpanther]

Decided to do a quick test of swapping bolts with a KAK heavy duty one, loaded up 5 starlines with 40.5 grs of H4350 that had previously been piercing and occasionally popping primers. Appeared to do the trick.

[stagpanther]

I'll give the a-tips another go with a different bolt set-up.

[Don Fischer]

I think manufacturer's are willing to make anything they think the public will buy! Design it and then create an excuse for it's existence. Charge a lot of money and presto, an improved product. Stop and tink about it, you get something like that expecting to improve your shooting and the really serious competitor with his old SMK's wipes your eye every time! Tecknowledgey can only take you so far! So who's bullet's are really better? Who know's, guess it just depend's on who shoots them!

[stagpanther]

My personal opinion is that people cast aspersions upon the product--which may or may not be deserved--would be better served in the argument by backing up their opinions with solid data from experience. I'm only saying I'm trying them out. Most of my shooting is through AR's that I build--a bullet's performance isn't just it's inherently great ultra high BC design--but in my experience how well it can make the dynamic trip from magazine to chamber. The a-tip does seem to have an ideal ogive/SD design to lend itself very well to operations in my AR's.