.356 in a 357

225win · December 13, 2015, 05:34 PM

I acquired 500 165 gr rn bullets thar are .356 dia. I feel they are too heavy for 9mm and was wondering if they could be used in 357 mag or 38 spl cases. Any thoughts?

GP100man · December 13, 2015, 05:49 PM

If jacketed , in a pinch yes ,with accuracy suffering a bit.

If lead they are undersized & will allow gas cutting{pressure blowing by the lands} & will fill the barrel with lead from end to end.

849ACSO · December 13, 2015, 06:38 PM

If they are lead, I wouldn't even think about it, unless your fond of scrubbing lead out of your barrel.

wpsdlrg · December 13, 2015, 07:27 PM

Sorry guys, but the two blanket answers given (before) MAY be not valid. Whether the .356" bullets will work well in a 38/ 357 mag. depends on the ACTUAL barrel bore/ groove diameter. It is not really common knowledge, but many 38/357's actually have barrels TIGHTER than 0.357". Just as many 9mm barrels are not actually 0.355" in groove diameter, which is the spec'd diameter....many 38/357 barrels are not actually 0.357".

Many (I can't say all, though) Smith & Wessons, fit this scenario. I have two S&W 64-3's and one 60-3 right now....ALL having barrels of close to 0.355". ALL of them shoot cast bullets of 0.356" diameter just fine. In fact, I have over a thousand 0.356" diameter, 125 grain "9mm" bullets, which I am using in my 38's (as I no longer have any 9mm pistols, nor load 9mm ammo). I've already put hundreds of these through these guns. I even had some 115 grain 9mm bullets that I already used.

Not a trace of leading from these bullets in any of my 38's.....and excellent accuracy, to boot.

So, the CORRECT answer to the OP's question is - MAYBE. If the barrel diameter is close to 0.355, there is an excellent chance that the 0.356" bullets will do just fine. As for the 38/357 CASES (which is actually how the question was phrased)....the 0.356" bullets will fit, but may be a little loose. I would recommend NOT flaring the 38/357 cases, before loading the 9mm bullets. Make sure to do a firm crimp, as well.

In any event, 165 grain bullets can be very problematic in 9mm, as the length is too great for the tapered 9mm case. That is, unless the bullets in question have a very long, heavily tapered nose......and a "normal" length bearing area. Even if they cause no problems in actual loading, they will require light charges (in order to avoid going over pressure).....and the resultant loads may not cycle the action in many 9mm pistols.

firewrench044 · December 13, 2015, 07:56 PM

I use a .355 102gr HP bullet for a training round in 38 SPL( low recoil )
( for beginners )
tried them in S&W- 2 Inch and 6 Inch, Tarus- 2 inch and 5 inch and
a Rossi 2 inch none of these had any problems ( taper crimp )(38 SPL & 357 )

added a cantalure to 115 and 124 gr .355 Dia. bullets for 38SPL and 357
and they also work very good with no accuracy lost

I am shure there is some type of pistol that will have trouble with the smaller
bullets but I have not found one yet

Nick_C_S · December 13, 2015, 11:24 PM

You can always try them. But I wouldn't set your expectations very high. For most guns, .357 (lead) will drift about the target. .356 would only be worse.

Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't bother. The smallest I'll load for lead is .358, and have the best results with .359. I don't cast, but if they were mine, I'd try to sell (or give) them to someone who does. They should probably be melted.

225win · December 13, 2015, 11:55 PM

They are copper plated. What would someone use 165 gr. Round nose 9mm for or in? Just seems like a really heavy bullet for 9mm luger

225win · December 13, 2015, 11:56 PM

I guess a reasonable idea would be to slug the barrel of the 38 or 357 guns to see how tight the barrels are. Agree?

wpsdlrg · December 14, 2015, 07:06 AM

Slugging the barrel of the gun for which the bullets will be used is, of course, the BEST thing to do. Then, an educated decision can be made about use of the bullets.

Since the bullets are PLATED, you have a bit more flexibility with them.

Even if the barrel groove diameter of the 38/357 (in question) is 0.357", the .356" bullets MAY work OK. However, if the barrel is LARGER than that....then probably not (and in that case, I wouldn't bother with test loads). If the groove diameter is SMALLER than 0.357", to which I alluded in my first post, then there is a good chance that 0.356" plated bullets will work fine.

Many revolver barrels ARE undersized (as I stated in my first post). They aren't all 0.357" in diameter. So, simple blanket statements, based on that number, are NOT necessarily valid.

Always load PLATED bullets to CAST bullet velocities and pressures. However, plated bullets can be more flexible than cast, in that they will sometimes work in barrels a bit larger than normal for cast bullets.

Normally, cast bullets work best when sized to about .001 " - .002 " LARGER than the barrel groove diameter. Plated however, can sometimes work, even if the same as the barrel groove diameter....or slightly undersized.

Testing them is the only way to know for sure. But, as I said, if the barrel groove dia. is larger than 0.357" in this circumstance, I would not bother. If smaller, though, you have a good chance of making the bullets work.

TimSr · December 14, 2015, 08:46 AM

If it were me, I'd simply try some and find out. On an internet forum, you'll get 3 answers - "yes, no, and maybe". The correct answer is "maybe".

rclark · December 14, 2015, 09:52 AM

Quote:

If it were me, I'd simply try some and find out.

Ditto. Not going to hurt anything by giving them the o' college try.

hartcreek · December 14, 2015, 10:07 PM

I use a Lee 105v grain mold for both 9mm and .38 and have fine accuracy no matter what gun I shoot the cast bullet out of. I have also taken hornady XTPs for .38 special and run them through a lee sizer die to squish them down for 9mm. They too worked just fine.

GP100man · December 14, 2015, 10:28 PM

Copper plated ?? hmm , give em a qwik kik in the butt with 5.5gr of Hodgdons CLAYS powder , pressures will rise fast enuff to upset em a bit ,but not fast enuff to strip the plating off .

Just don`t go for magnum loads & I bet they do fine. If accuracy is mediocre up the charge to 6 gr, just wacth the plating on some recovered bullets & bore & make sure it`s not being stripped off .

I tried different brands of plated fodder for the 357 & found the plating to be .007" or less , just too thin for magnum velocitys.

I think the bullet you have is for the 38 super.

GP

NoSecondBest · December 16, 2015, 12:27 PM

Measure the base of the bullet. I recently purchased some bullets from Hornady that were supposed to be .358 but the base of the bullets were .355 and they shot poorly out of both my rifle and handgun and my friends rifle and handgun. Called Hornady and I guess they thought neither of us could use a set of calipers. They finally agreed to replace them with "good" bullets that measured correctly at the base and the difference in accuracy was night and day. Even at .357 or .358 in the middle of the bullet isn't enough. It's the base that fills up first and if it's too small accuracy will suffer.

T. O'Heir · December 16, 2015, 02:52 PM

165 grain RN bullets that are .356" diameter are probably rifle bullets(not the .356 Win though. That's a .358.). Hawk Bullets shows a couple 200 and 250 grain .356" bullets. Maybe a 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

WCWV · December 16, 2015, 09:46 PM

I shoot cast 356 124 grn in my Blackhawk convertible 357 / 9mm and also in a LCR 357 / 38 special and they are very accurate in 9mm and 38 special. Give them a try

Jim Watson · December 16, 2015, 09:54 PM

As TimSr says, you "acquired" the bullets, so load some up and YOU tell US how well they work.

There are a good many undersize jacketed pistol bullets out there, plated ought to work ok if you don't drive them too hard.

The only thing I would watch out for is bullet pull. You might need a smaller expander or a tighter sizing die to keep them from being pulled by recoil. No crimp groove.

December 13, 2015, 05:34 PM	#1
225win Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2015 Posts: 4	.356 in a 357 I acquired 500 165 gr rn bullets thar are .356 dia. I feel they are too heavy for 9mm and was wondering if they could be used in 357 mag or 38 spl cases. Any thoughts?

December 13, 2015, 05:49 PM	#2
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	If jacketed , in a pinch yes ,with accuracy suffering a bit. If lead they are undersized & will allow gas cutting{pressure blowing by the lands} & will fill the barrel with lead from end to end. __________________ GP100man

December 13, 2015, 06:38 PM	#3
849ACSO Senior Member Join Date: September 21, 2014 Location: Somewhere in the middle Posts: 629	If they are lead, I wouldn't even think about it, unless your fond of scrubbing lead out of your barrel. __________________ "The day you stop learning SHOULD directly coincide with the day you stop breathing."

December 13, 2015, 11:24 PM	#6
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,524	You can always try them. But I wouldn't set your expectations very high. For most guns, .357 (lead) will drift about the target. .356 would only be worse. Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't bother. The smallest I'll load for lead is .358, and have the best results with .359. I don't cast, but if they were mine, I'd try to sell (or give) them to someone who does. They should probably be melted. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

December 14, 2015, 10:28 PM	#13
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	Copper plated ?? hmm , give em a qwik kik in the butt with 5.5gr of Hodgdons CLAYS powder , pressures will rise fast enuff to upset em a bit ,but not fast enuff to strip the plating off . Just don`t go for magnum loads & I bet they do fine. If accuracy is mediocre up the charge to 6 gr, just wacth the plating on some recovered bullets & bore & make sure it`s not being stripped off . I tried different brands of plated fodder for the 357 & found the plating to be .007" or less , just too thin for magnum velocitys. I think the bullet you have is for the 38 super. GP __________________ GP100man

December 13, 2015, 07:27 PM	#4
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	Sorry guys, but the two blanket answers given (before) MAY be not valid. Whether the .356" bullets will work well in a 38/ 357 mag. depends on the ACTUAL barrel bore/ groove diameter. It is not really common knowledge, but many 38/357's actually have barrels TIGHTER than 0.357". Just as many 9mm barrels are not actually 0.355" in groove diameter, which is the spec'd diameter....many 38/357 barrels are not actually 0.357". Many (I can't say all, though) Smith & Wessons, fit this scenario. I have two S&W 64-3's and one 60-3 right now....ALL having barrels of close to 0.355". ALL of them shoot cast bullets of 0.356" diameter just fine. In fact, I have over a thousand 0.356" diameter, 125 grain "9mm" bullets, which I am using in my 38's (as I no longer have any 9mm pistols, nor load 9mm ammo). I've already put hundreds of these through these guns. I even had some 115 grain 9mm bullets that I already used. Not a trace of leading from these bullets in any of my 38's.....and excellent accuracy, to boot. So, the CORRECT answer to the OP's question is - MAYBE. If the barrel diameter is close to 0.355, there is an excellent chance that the 0.356" bullets will do just fine. As for the 38/357 CASES (which is actually how the question was phrased)....the 0.356" bullets will fit, but may be a little loose. I would recommend NOT flaring the 38/357 cases, before loading the 9mm bullets. Make sure to do a firm crimp, as well. In any event, 165 grain bullets can be very problematic in 9mm, as the length is too great for the tapered 9mm case. That is, unless the bullets in question have a very long, heavily tapered nose......and a "normal" length bearing area. Even if they cause no problems in actual loading, they will require light charges (in order to avoid going over pressure).....and the resultant loads may not cycle the action in many 9mm pistols.

December 13, 2015, 07:56 PM	#5
firewrench044 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2007 Location: Fort Pierce, Florida Posts: 381	I use a .355 102gr HP bullet for a training round in 38 SPL( low recoil ) ( for beginners ) tried them in S&W- 2 Inch and 6 Inch, Tarus- 2 inch and 5 inch and a Rossi 2 inch none of these had any problems ( taper crimp )(38 SPL & 357 ) added a cantalure to 115 and 124 gr .355 Dia. bullets for 38SPL and 357 and they also work very good with no accuracy lost I am shure there is some type of pistol that will have trouble with the smaller bullets but I have not found one yet

December 13, 2015, 11:55 PM	#7
225win Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2015 Posts: 4	They are copper plated. What would someone use 165 gr. Round nose 9mm for or in? Just seems like a really heavy bullet for 9mm luger

December 13, 2015, 11:56 PM	#8
225win Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2015 Posts: 4	I guess a reasonable idea would be to slug the barrel of the 38 or 357 guns to see how tight the barrels are. Agree?

December 14, 2015, 07:06 AM	#9
wpsdlrg Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2009 Posts: 826	Slugging the barrel of the gun for which the bullets will be used is, of course, the BEST thing to do. Then, an educated decision can be made about use of the bullets. Since the bullets are PLATED, you have a bit more flexibility with them. Even if the barrel groove diameter of the 38/357 (in question) is 0.357", the .356" bullets MAY work OK. However, if the barrel is LARGER than that....then probably not (and in that case, I wouldn't bother with test loads). If the groove diameter is SMALLER than 0.357", to which I alluded in my first post, then there is a good chance that 0.356" plated bullets will work fine. Many revolver barrels ARE undersized (as I stated in my first post). They aren't all 0.357" in diameter. So, simple blanket statements, based on that number, are NOT necessarily valid. Always load PLATED bullets to CAST bullet velocities and pressures. However, plated bullets can be more flexible than cast, in that they will sometimes work in barrels a bit larger than normal for cast bullets. Normally, cast bullets work best when sized to about .001 " - .002 " LARGER than the barrel groove diameter. Plated however, can sometimes work, even if the same as the barrel groove diameter....or slightly undersized. Testing them is the only way to know for sure. But, as I said, if the barrel groove dia. is larger than 0.357" in this circumstance, I would not bother. If smaller, though, you have a good chance of making the bullets work.

December 14, 2015, 08:46 AM	#10
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	If it were me, I'd simply try some and find out. On an internet forum, you'll get 3 answers - "yes, no, and maybe". The correct answer is "maybe".

December 14, 2015, 10:07 PM	#12
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I use a Lee 105v grain mold for both 9mm and .38 and have fine accuracy no matter what gun I shoot the cast bullet out of. I have also taken hornady XTPs for .38 special and run them through a lee sizer die to squish them down for 9mm. They too worked just fine.

December 16, 2015, 12:27 PM	#14
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Measure the base of the bullet. I recently purchased some bullets from Hornady that were supposed to be .358 but the base of the bullets were .355 and they shot poorly out of both my rifle and handgun and my friends rifle and handgun. Called Hornady and I guess they thought neither of us could use a set of calipers. They finally agreed to replace them with "good" bullets that measured correctly at the base and the difference in accuracy was night and day. Even at .357 or .358 in the middle of the bullet isn't enough. It's the base that fills up first and if it's too small accuracy will suffer.

December 16, 2015, 02:52 PM	#15
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	165 grain RN bullets that are .356" diameter are probably rifle bullets(not the .356 Win though. That's a .358.). Hawk Bullets shows a couple 200 and 250 grain .356" bullets. Maybe a 9x56 Mannlicher-Schoenauer. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

December 16, 2015, 09:46 PM	#16
WCWV Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2015 Posts: 137	I shoot cast 356 124 grn in my Blackhawk convertible 357 / 9mm and also in a LCR 357 / 38 special and they are very accurate in 9mm and 38 special. Give them a try

December 16, 2015, 09:54 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	As TimSr says, you "acquired" the bullets, so load some up and YOU tell US how well they work. There are a good many undersize jacketed pistol bullets out there, plated ought to work ok if you don't drive them too hard. The only thing I would watch out for is bullet pull. You might need a smaller expander or a tighter sizing die to keep them from being pulled by recoil. No crimp groove.