SHOT 2019 - 185gr 9mm JHP - Not a Typo

Bartholomew Roberts · January 23, 2019, 08:08 PM

You read that right... 1-8-5 grain 9mm JHP that operates at safe pressures in normal 9mm.

https://www.recoilweb.com/seismic-di...ce-145326.html

I couldn’t help but notice that this ammo uses a separate base similar to the magical new 6.8 ammo the Army has been pursuing for its rifle. New technology about to make a big splash?

The manufacturer of the 9mm claims only 950fps, so not anywhere near the same speed/pressure increases claimed by the 6.8 Army round; but the separate base is an interesting commonality between them.

Reading the marketing material, the separate base here is aircraft aluminum and instead of allowing a higher pressure, allows a 50% weight reduction while still maintaining the benefits of a nickel case.

Sharkbite · January 23, 2019, 09:03 PM

185 @ 950 beats 147 @ 950 as a subsonic loading. If this technology pans out, id love to see ammo companies load heavy

BarryLee · January 23, 2019, 09:30 PM

325gr .45acp

jmr40 · January 23, 2019, 10:06 PM

I want no part of a 2.5 oz 12 ga slug. Maybe not a 325 gr 45 ACP. The 185 gr 9mm, if it can get 950 fps has potential.

74A95 · January 24, 2019, 12:26 AM

Interesting stuff. I am curious if their bullet is conventional lead/tin/antimony alloy or lead/something else alloy or lead only. The 9mm can certainly take long bullets, as 158 and 165 grain loads are available, but a 185 must be longer unless it's mixed with or made from a heavier alloy.

The shell shock cases have a lot of capacity compared to other 9mm cases, so there is a wee bit more room for powder. And, curiously, the shell shock cases seem to produce a little more velocity than brass cases even though the brass cases have less volume. https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...es-nas3-cases/ This might help them reach their impressive 950 fps.

But maybe they can get what they want with simply a awesome gunpowder that we don't normally see or use, or maybe a new gunpowder. Either way, it will be fun to try them.

TruthTellers · January 24, 2019, 01:03 AM

The bullets are longer, so that adds weight, but my guess is the base of the bullet has a core made of tungsten.

dogtown tom · January 24, 2019, 09:43 AM

How does this compare to the Extreme Shock Nytrillium Fang Face rounds?

TruthTellers · January 25, 2019, 12:43 AM

There's a video on youtube of the rep for the company making this ammo and he said the price is $138 per 21 round box.

Okay then.

**JohnKSa** · January 25, 2019, 02:31 AM

Handgun ammo can't have a solid tungsten core or it will fit the federal definition of armor piercing.

However, as I read the law, a powdered tungsten core mixed with a significant amount of other ingredients might be legal.

Tungsten is about 70% more dense than lead which means that a 109gr lead bullet would be about 185gr if it were made out of tungsten instead. In other words, it shouldn't be that difficult to take a typical 9mm bullet and make it into a super-heavyweight bullet using some kind of frangible core made up primarily of tungsten powder. That gets away from the problems with an excessively long bullet taking up all the powder space.

But there's still the issue of propelling that extra mass to usable velocity without excessive pressure.

As far as recoil goes, 185gr at about 950fps shouldn't recoil prohibitively--that's an unremarkable .40S&W loading and we know that 9mm and .40S&W guns can share a virtually identical form factor and weight.

So maybe not really that difficult of a problem to solve... But still interesting.

silvermane_1 · February 3, 2019, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

The bullets are longer, so that adds weight, but my guess is the base of the bullet has a core made of tungsten.

If true about the tungstun, it could be considered "armor piercing" by the FEDs i.e. BATFE.

January 23, 2019, 08:08 PM	#1
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	SHOT 2019 - 185gr 9mm JHP - Not a Typo You read that right... 1-8-5 grain 9mm JHP that operates at safe pressures in normal 9mm. https://www.recoilweb.com/seismic-di...ce-145326.html I couldn’t help but notice that this ammo uses a separate base similar to the magical new 6.8 ammo the Army has been pursuing for its rifle. New technology about to make a big splash? The manufacturer of the 9mm claims only 950fps, so not anywhere near the same speed/pressure increases claimed by the 6.8 Army round; but the separate base is an interesting commonality between them. Reading the marketing material, the separate base here is aircraft aluminum and instead of allowing a higher pressure, allows a 50% weight reduction while still maintaining the benefits of a nickel case. Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; January 23, 2019 at 08:18 PM.

January 23, 2019, 09:30 PM	#3
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	325gr .45acp __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

January 23, 2019, 10:06 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	I want no part of a 2.5 oz 12 ga slug. Maybe not a 325 gr 45 ACP. The 185 gr 9mm, if it can get 950 fps has potential. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

January 24, 2019, 01:03 AM	#6
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,889	The bullets are longer, so that adds weight, but my guess is the base of the bullet has a core made of tungsten. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

January 24, 2019, 09:43 AM	#7
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,093	How does this compare to the Extreme Shock Nytrillium Fang Face rounds? __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

January 23, 2019, 09:03 PM	#2
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	185 @ 950 beats 147 @ 950 as a subsonic loading. If this technology pans out, id love to see ammo companies load heavy

January 24, 2019, 12:26 AM	#5
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,570	Interesting stuff. I am curious if their bullet is conventional lead/tin/antimony alloy or lead/something else alloy or lead only. The 9mm can certainly take long bullets, as 158 and 165 grain loads are available, but a 185 must be longer unless it's mixed with or made from a heavier alloy. The shell shock cases have a lot of capacity compared to other 9mm cases, so there is a wee bit more room for powder. And, curiously, the shell shock cases seem to produce a little more velocity than brass cases even though the brass cases have less volume. https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...es-nas3-cases/ This might help them reach their impressive 950 fps. But maybe they can get what they want with simply a awesome gunpowder that we don't normally see or use, or maybe a new gunpowder. Either way, it will be fun to try them.

January 25, 2019, 12:43 AM	#8
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,889	There's a video on youtube of the rep for the company making this ammo and he said the price is $138 per 21 round box. Okay then. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

January 25, 2019, 02:31 AM	#9
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	Handgun ammo can't have a solid tungsten core or it will fit the federal definition of armor piercing. However, as I read the law, a powdered tungsten core mixed with a significant amount of other ingredients might be legal. Tungsten is about 70% more dense than lead which means that a 109gr lead bullet would be about 185gr if it were made out of tungsten instead. In other words, it shouldn't be that difficult to take a typical 9mm bullet and make it into a super-heavyweight bullet using some kind of frangible core made up primarily of tungsten powder. That gets away from the problems with an excessively long bullet taking up all the powder space. But there's still the issue of propelling that extra mass to usable velocity without excessive pressure. As far as recoil goes, 185gr at about 950fps shouldn't recoil prohibitively--that's an unremarkable .40S&W loading and we know that 9mm and .40S&W guns can share a virtually identical form factor and weight. So maybe not really that difficult of a problem to solve... But still interesting. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?