My first squib yay

[Ike Clanton]

As the title leads I had my first squib load today. Been reloading for 7 years and now my confidence has sunk. Load was 45 acp 4.2 grains of VV N-310 with a Berrys 230 RN shot in an AR 45 8in barrel. I know heavy bullets with fast powder is always more susceptible to this. Loading on a LNL Progressive I assume during the process one was loaded light due to the standard hiccups that come with progressive presses. The bullet just barely made it into the barrel indicating to me it was a light load. My question is there anyway to inspect the case or bullet to better identify what happened?

[reddog81]

According to the VV app 4.2 isn’t really a light load or anything like that. A bullet stuck in the beginning of the barrel would probably indicate a primer only load, contaminated powder, or somehow a fraction of the powder dropped. N310 flows freely so I can’t imagine powder getting hung up in the dispenser.

Was there any powder behind the bullet or in the case?

[Ike Clanton]

Not that I saw. It didn’t have enough power to cycle the action. The case appears burnt like normal with no splits or anything. I did, however have many issues with crimped primers which caused hiccups in the process and very well could’ve gotten a half load and I didn’t notice. I’m very diligent about checking for powder but 4.2 g in a 45 case isn’t much so I coulda had one look full and passed it

[Recycled bullet]

It's possible that if you wet tumble your brass and failed to dry them entirely when you went to prime them and charge the gunpowder there could have been moisture inside the casing.

[totaldla]

I'm not familiar with the Lock and Load, but if I were you, I would play around with it and see what it takes to make a squib.
What you experienced was primer-only, so I would check to see what kind of interruption/boo-boo caused it.
With my SDB, I can cause a squib when clearing a press malfuction and lose track of where each case should be - I've done it too and I've been reloading a lot longer than 7 years

[Unclenick]

If the powder were wet, I would expect unburned powder to be left in the case and chamber. The burnt look on the case that starts at the mouth and fades going back toward the head is from powder gases escaping backward around the case mouth. It happens when the pressure is inadequate to seal the chamber well with the case brass, so it gets worse as pressure gets lower. If you have it,powder was burning. If you have a lot of it, you likely had a very light load.

[Ike Clanton]

I don’t wet tumble so I can pretty much rule out wet powder. I suppose a primer only load but man I swear I woulda caught it. Lesson learned. In a sense I’m glad I felt a squib because I was always worried I wouldn’t notice but it felt like a cap gun and immediately knew what it was.

[HiBC]

Consider that because it is a production process, a missed or short charge in one cartridge can be a double or long charge on the next cartridge.
If a stroke on the handle dumps a charge it has to go someplace.

Do you have room in your tool head for a "Powder Cop Die" ?

[rc]

You probably had a primer jam and double stroked your press or something accidentally advancing one shell past the powder drop or having your measure only partly empty.

[44 AMP]

I’m very diligent about checking for powder but 4.2 g in a 45 case isn’t much so I coulda had one look full and passed it

Just when (in the cycle) and how do you check for powder??

I know heavy bullets with fast powder is always more susceptible to this.

A 230gr isn't considered a heavy bullet in .45acp. Its the standard weight.

Loading on a LNL Progressive I assume during the process one was loaded light due to the standard hiccups that come with progressive presses.

I don't know the LNL system, so can't comment on it. But I will say that thinking there are "standard hiccups that come with progressive presses" concerns me a bit

If you are getting "hiccups" with a progressive press, you aren't doing something right. Either not having brass properly prepped or some kind of error or inconsistency in operation. Its easy to do, and often difficult to catch, until you try to chamber / shoot the bad round.

What you describe, bullet just barely into the barrel, is typical of a no powder squib. Several things are possible reasons, both mechanical malfunction and/or operator error.

I had a progressive once where sometimes the measure would "stick" in the up position. The case that pushed it up got powder, but with the measure sticking in the up position, the next case would not get powder, and to add to the issue, most of the time, when the ram came down so would the powder measure, giving a completely normal look, but a case with no powder. Also the next case, with the measure back in its proper position, got the normal powder charge.

The result was you could get one, or more rounds without powder in a batch, IF you didn't happen to notice the measure was stuck WHILE it was stuck, and IF you didn't visually (and properly) inspect each case for powder before a bullet went on it.

This, and some other issues is what lead me to abandoning progressive presses. I loaded more bad rounds (approx 3 ) on my progressive in two years than I had in the previous 20 years of loading on a single stage press.

OF course, part of the issue was me, but I've gone back to single stage presses, careful inspection of every round at every stage of the process, and for me, while it takes more time, I get better QC of the ammo I make. (or at least I think I do. )

[stagpanther]

I once found a squib immediately in front of the chamber--there was no firing of the cartridge and working the slide the case fell out along with the unburnt powder; I figured the bullet simply parted company with the case and/or sank deep past the case mouth datum somewhere along the way in cycling into the chamber. IIRC this was a full power 10mm load in one of my glocks using heavy main springs.

[Ike Clanton]

I do have room for a powder cup die so perhaps I’ll try that. As for “hiccups” mainly when the shell plate isn’t quite in line causing the shell to hit the sizing die. It happens once in awhile but I’m usually able to hold the press handle in position then continue the stroke after aligning the plate. I did however as you mentioned have the powder die stick in the upward position about 3 times but I was able to catch it each time. This could be the issue and one empty round slipped past me.

[wild willy]

Make sure your powder measure is tight. On the Hornady if the measure turns loose the measure will lift up instead of dumping powder had it happen.

[Nick_C_S]

4.2 grains of VV N-310 with a Berrys 230 RN

That's ^ not a light load.

I often load a 200 LSWC with 3.2 grains of VV N-310; and that is a fairly light load, but it's still plenty strong enough to cycle an 18Lb recoil spring in a full-sized 1911.

I too strongly suspect a no-powder squib.

[Unclenick]

He said the case mouth looked "burnt," and a primer alone won't do that. So he had some measure of powder in there, but apparently so little that the case didn't expand to seal the chamber, so the gas just vented mostly rearward around the case.

He says he has space for a powder cop die, so that would be the thing to do for fast production. In a pinch, you can cut a short length of 3/8" dowel—maybe an inch long for 45 Auto—and then put a single case in the press and charge it normally. Set the dowel in it and put a line on the dowel to show the right powder level. As each case is charged and before you set a bullet in it, put the dowel in first to see if it stops at the line. This slows things down, but, as I say, this is in a pinch where you think you have a recurring problem and don't have the powder cop die yet.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Ike Clanton

As the title leads I had my first squib load today. Been reloading for 7 years and now my confidence has sunk. Load was 45 acp 4.2 grains of VV N-310 with a Berrys 230 RN shot in an AR 45 8in barrel. I know heavy bullets with fast powder is always more susceptible to this. Loading on a LNL Progressive I assume during the process one was loaded light due to the standard hiccups that come with progressive presses. The bullet just barely made it into the barrel indicating to me it was a light load. My question is there anyway to inspect the case or bullet to better identify what happened?

I have been loading for 40 years. The LNL is the only press I have ever had nothing but problems with. It has been factory rebuilt twice and still a pile of junk. I got so mad at it I unbolted it off bench and threw it in the dog pen in the direction of my yapping dog. (Made sure not to hit him) That is where it still is.

[Ike Clanton]

HAHA seems like something I’d do. I wouldn’t mind getting behind a dillion some day to see the difference. Hornady has been fantastic for me with customer service. Free parts etc.

[Unclenick]

People and machines can have funny relationships. There are certain cars I never felt comfortable driving because they oversteered to my sense of the wheel, but others loved them. I think reloading presses can just feel wrong, or do things in a sequence that never feels right to you. Also, like cars, with reloading machines, you can get a lemon.

[MarkCO]

Sounds more like a no powder squib to me.

I've had 4 squibs, all factory ammo. They are unnerving.

[Schlitz 45]

I experienced a 380 squib that was loaded on my progressive press & thought I was being very careful-it happens. After that I took my digital color inspection camera that I mostly use for mechanic stuff & used some velcro to mount the camera on my press so with a quick glance I can visually verify powder's in the case before placing a bullet, no squibs since I started doing this.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

I've had 4 squibs, all factory ammo. They are unnerving.

I'll bet it is. We had a fellow on another forum who ran a contract testing handgun ammunition for several federal agencies. He said that by the time your crew had fired a couple hundred thousand rounds of commercial ammo, you'd seen every kind of failure a handloader can experience, plus several a handloader would not experience just because he handles his components and looks at his brass. These included duds due to primed cases without flash holes, hollow bullet jackets with no core, inverted bullets, untrimmed cases, et cetera. Of course, these were on top of squib loads, overpressure loads, backward seated primers, split cases, and all the other stuff handloaders run into.

I found a funny loading error with a round of Lake City National Match ammo I had fired at a DCM match at Camp Perry in the mid-1980s sometime. It actually shot OK, but when I was cleaning my policed brass, I noticed one case felt heavier than the others. I weighed it, and it was about 230 grains, whereas the others were about 195 grains. I looked inside with a bore light and saw that the web appeared darker on one side. So I got out a dental pick and poked and found a dark lump was there. After a bit more effort, I pulled it loose and got it out of the case with needle-nose pliers. It was lead. About 35 grains. Part of a bullet core, I supposed, but not a whole one (this ammo was loaded with the M1 Type 173-grain open-base boattail FMJs). An odd-size lump of scrap, oddly located. I only mention it because it is an example of a handloader handling components and therefore seeing what the machine at the factory did not.

[MarkCO]

I'll bet it is. We had a fellow on another forum who ran a contract testing handgun ammunition for several federal agencies. He said that by the time your crew had fired a couple hundred thousand rounds of commercial ammo, you'd seen every kind of failure a handloader can experience, plus several a handloader would not experience just because he handles his components and looks at his brass.

I know one of the "magazine testers" for MagPul. He would go through cases of factory ammo a day. Just cranking round after round through 223, 308 and 9mm magazines. He said the same sort of thing. Had all kinds of failures shooting as much ammo in a week as a high volume shooter shoots in a year.

[jetinteriorguy]

Originally Posted by Ike Clanton

As the title leads I had my first squib load today. Been reloading for 7 years and now my confidence has sunk. Load was 45 acp 4.2 grains of VV N-310 with a Berrys 230 RN shot in an AR 45 8in barrel. I know heavy bullets with fast powder is always more susceptible to this. Loading on a LNL Progressive I assume during the process one was loaded light due to the standard hiccups that come with progressive presses. The bullet just barely made it into the barrel indicating to me it was a light load. My question is there anyway to inspect the case or bullet to better identify what happened?

Just consider it a good lesson in the dangers of complacency when hand loading ammunition. Thankfully no damage done, may not be so lucky next time. In 30+ years of hand loading I’ve never had a squib, but I have had an accidental double load of Titegroup that blew the top off my 627. This was due to cascading events in my loading procedure on my no longer used Loadmaster and my carelessness. Luckily other than the gun no injuries were incurred.