Pre '64 Mdl 94 front sight question

Ordie · April 25, 2014, 11:04 PM

I inherited a nice little model 94 Carbine (30 WCF) and I'm trying to get it in shape. It shoots a consistent group at 100 yards but it is hitting very high (14-16in). I've got the rear sight all the way down. I'm suspicious of the front sight. Can you tell me the height of the original front sight? Should it also have a hood in place?
Thx very much

Blindstitch · April 26, 2014, 07:21 AM

I don't have a pre 64 but I have a 67 and 73 that I can measure later. Is your rear sight a buckhorn?

Ordie · April 26, 2014, 10:58 AM

I'm a rookie on this rifle but research is in progress. I believe the rear sight is a buckhorn or maybe a semi-buckhorn. I don't know the difference yet. It has the small screw on the right hand side. It also has the single blade elevator in the center. The rear sight is dovetailed into the barrel on the forward end of the sight assembly.
Thx for the feedback

Sarge · April 26, 2014, 12:04 PM

Ordie there were several types of sights used on these fine old guns over the years. If you can post a photo of each sight it would be helpful in getting a replacement that is capable of being zeroed, while staying pretty close to the original.

A quick method of 'ball-parking' the amount of correction you need is at http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/Mi...rection_F2.swf

You'll need to measure the distance between your front and rear sights (sight radius) but I've used this resource a lot and it will get you very close.

PetahW · April 26, 2014, 06:49 PM

.

IMO, You will need a higher front sight blade to achieve a 100yd zero with whatever load you happen to be using.

The front sight hood has nothing to do with the rifle's zero, but does help protect a fragile sight bead during transportation.

.

Blindstitch · April 26, 2014, 07:10 PM

Does your site look like this?

or

Ordie · April 26, 2014, 08:48 PM

Sarge and Blindstitch, I was able to get some pics resolution isn't great but here they are. The front sight is dovetailed into the ramp and the rear is dovetailed into the barrel.
Thx for the help.

Blindstitch · April 26, 2014, 10:56 PM

Are you using the little center groove to shoot or centering the front site in the center of the semi buckhorns like a peep site.

Also measure your front sight. This link shows that there are two sized available on the schematics.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...re64-34346.htm

There may be more but just not on this site at that link.

The sizes are .26 high and .29. Even hints of a .31 of an inch.

Also found this.
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...ht-Blade-Specs

This one says .343 and there are probably many others for that same dovetail. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-9...item19ec1250da

Peter M. Eick · April 27, 2014, 02:07 PM

Just out of curiosity, what is your sight picture look like?

Could you sketch how you are lining up on a bullseye?

On my 94 (pre-64), I have to suck the front bead down into the bottom of the buckhorn into the lowest notch and then set the bullseye up on top of the front bead. This gives me about a 3" high at 100 yrds which drops it right in the center of my targets (6" pistol targets so I can see them) with the rear sight on click up from bottomed out.

Ordie · April 28, 2014, 09:25 AM

My sight picture is the front sight bead at the bottom of the center grove in the rear sight positioned sub six below the target. I was using pistol targets at 100yds. I had to drop the sight picture out the bottom to the target stand frame about 10 inches below the bottom edge of the target to start marking a fall of shot at the top of the paper. I see on the site below a .575 "High" front sight for a Ranger with a 20" barrel. http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/...94-front-sight
That's pretty high though. I'll try to get a measurement on my sight today. But I think it is somewhere in the .210-.250 range.
Thanks for the discussion

Scorch · April 29, 2014, 12:45 AM

The original front sight was .235" tall not counting the dovetail (.295" counting the dovetail).

Ordie · April 29, 2014, 10:11 PM

My sight is closer to .255 counting the dovetail. I think I'll get a sight closer to .30, install, and try to zero again. Thanks for the feedback Scorch

Sarge · April 30, 2014, 08:45 AM

Ordie I am almost certain I have used a Marble 310MR on ramped 94 Winchesters, with perfect results and 'bottom step' zero..

Keep in mind this was always with the Winchester 'Flat Top' rear sight, which I prefer, but it sounds like a 310 would probably get you zeroed.

Ordie · April 30, 2014, 08:00 PM

Sarge, that .310 sight is what I thought Id try first. Great minds thinking alike and all that.

Im putting it on order this evening.
Thanks very much

April 25, 2014, 11:04 PM	#1
Ordie Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 13	Pre '64 Mdl 94 front sight question I inherited a nice little model 94 Carbine (30 WCF) and I'm trying to get it in shape. It shoots a consistent group at 100 yards but it is hitting very high (14-16in). I've got the rear sight all the way down. I'm suspicious of the front sight. Can you tell me the height of the original front sight? Should it also have a hood in place? Thx very much

April 26, 2014, 10:58 AM	#3
Ordie Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 13	Front sight I'm a rookie on this rifle but research is in progress. I believe the rear sight is a buckhorn or maybe a semi-buckhorn. I don't know the difference yet. It has the small screw on the right hand side. It also has the single blade elevator in the center. The rear sight is dovetailed into the barrel on the forward end of the sight assembly. Thx for the feedback

April 26, 2014, 12:04 PM	#4
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Ordie there were several types of sights used on these fine old guns over the years. If you can post a photo of each sight it would be helpful in getting a replacement that is capable of being zeroed, while staying pretty close to the original. A quick method of 'ball-parking' the amount of correction you need is at http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/Mi...rection_F2.swf You'll need to measure the distance between your front and rear sights (sight radius) but I've used this resource a lot and it will get you very close. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

April 26, 2014, 07:10 PM	#6
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,694	Does your site look like this? or or

April 27, 2014, 02:07 PM	#9
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Just out of curiosity, what is your sight picture look like? Could you sketch how you are lining up on a bullseye? On my 94 (pre-64), I have to suck the front bead down into the bottom of the buckhorn into the lowest notch and then set the bullseye up on top of the front bead. This gives me about a 3" high at 100 yrds which drops it right in the center of my targets (6" pistol targets so I can see them) with the rear sight on click up from bottomed out. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

April 26, 2014, 07:21 AM	#2
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,694	I don't have a pre 64 but I have a 67 and 73 that I can measure later. Is your rear sight a buckhorn?

April 26, 2014, 06:49 PM	#5
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. IMO, You will need a higher front sight blade to achieve a 100yd zero with whatever load you happen to be using. The front sight hood has nothing to do with the rifle's zero, but does help protect a fragile sight bead during transportation. .

April 26, 2014, 10:56 PM	#8
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,694	Are you using the little center groove to shoot or centering the front site in the center of the semi buckhorns like a peep site. Also measure your front sight. This link shows that there are two sized available on the schematics. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufact...re64-34346.htm There may be more but just not on this site at that link. The sizes are .26 high and .29. Even hints of a .31 of an inch. Also found this. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...ht-Blade-Specs This one says .343 and there are probably many others for that same dovetail. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Winchester-9...item19ec1250da

April 28, 2014, 09:25 AM	#10
Ordie Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 13	Mdl 94 sights My sight picture is the front sight bead at the bottom of the center grove in the rear sight positioned sub six below the target. I was using pistol targets at 100yds. I had to drop the sight picture out the bottom to the target stand frame about 10 inches below the bottom edge of the target to start marking a fall of shot at the top of the paper. I see on the site below a .575 "High" front sight for a Ranger with a 20" barrel. http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/...94-front-sight That's pretty high though. I'll try to get a measurement on my sight today. But I think it is somewhere in the .210-.250 range. Thanks for the discussion

April 29, 2014, 12:45 AM	#11
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	The original front sight was .235" tall not counting the dovetail (.295" counting the dovetail). __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 29, 2014, 10:11 PM	#12
Ordie Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 13	MDL94 sights My sight is closer to .255 counting the dovetail. I think I'll get a sight closer to .30, install, and try to zero again. Thanks for the feedback Scorch

April 30, 2014, 08:45 AM	#13
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Ordie I am almost certain I have used a Marble 310MR on ramped 94 Winchesters, with perfect results and 'bottom step' zero.. Keep in mind this was always with the Winchester 'Flat Top' rear sight, which I prefer, but it sounds like a 310 would probably get you zeroed. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

April 30, 2014, 08:00 PM	#14
Ordie Junior Member Join Date: January 7, 2013 Posts: 13	MDL 94 sights Sarge, that .310 sight is what I thought Id try first. Great minds thinking alike and all that. Im putting it on order this evening. Thanks very much