Clarification of IDPA Divisions

Charlie Golf · February 12, 2005, 11:32 AM

Is this right:

Stock Service Pistol weapons MUST be DAO or "safe" action?

Enhanced Service Pistol weapons MAY be DA/SA?

So if I have a USPC DAO I could shoot in either SSP or ESP but with my DA/SA 92F and P239 I would be limited to ESP?

And for that matter, the IDPA Rule Book makes a differentiation between "double-action" and "double-action only" yet both are listed in the SSP criteria....can someone explain that to me please?

And didn't there used to be a "Backup Pistol Division?"

cadfael · February 12, 2005, 02:45 PM

For SSP, the FIRST shot must be double action (or a glock), any follow up shots can be single action, so a stock Berretta could be shot in either SSP or ESP.

Backup guns were always strictly a club-level match only division. They're still in the rulebook (page 26).

Adam

LAkid · February 13, 2005, 06:34 PM

Handguns permitted for STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division must be Double Action, Double Action ONLY, or Safe Action and be of 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber, be readily available on dealers’ shelves, have a minimum annual production of 2000 units (discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units) and meet the following criteria: Pistol including magazine must fit in a box measuring 8 3/4" x 6 " x 1 5/8".* No external modifications other than changing sights and grips will be permitted.* To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is ten (10).

NON-INCLUSIVE list of pistols permitted:* (These are just examples of pistols that meet STOCK SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.)

Astra A-75, A-100, Beretta 92FS, 92 Elite, 96, Cougar, Browning, BDA, CZ 75, 85, 100, Daewoo DP-51, DH-40, Desert Eagle Baby Eagle, EAA Witness, FEG PJK-9HP, Glock 19, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, H&K USP, Kahr K9, K40, Para-Ordnance LDA,* Ruger,Ruger P89, KP89, KP90, KP93, KP94, P95, P97,* Sig, Sig 220, 225, 226, 228 & 229, Smith and Wesson 908, 909, 910, 1006, 3913, 3953, 4506, 4516, 4566, 4586, 6904, 6906, 6946, 4013, 4053, 4046, 410, 4006, 4043, 5903, 5904, 5906, 5946 & Sigma, Smith & Wesson Performance Center Shorty 9, 40 & 45, model 5906 Tactical, Taurus* PT92, PT908, PT99, PT100, PT940, PT101, PT945, PT911, Walther P88, P-99

NOTE:* Selective DA/SA pistols MUST begin hammer down.

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ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION

Handguns permitted for ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL division must be Single Action or selective SA/DA and be of 9mm (9x19), (9x21), (9x23), .38 Super, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .41 AE, 10mm Norma, .400 Cor-Bon and meet the following criteria:

Pistol including empty magazine must fit in a box measuring 8 3/4" x 6" x 1 5/8" and have a maximum unloaded weight of 43 oz. To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is ten (10).*

NON-INCLUSIVE list of pistols permitted:* (These are just examples of pistols that meet ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.)

Browning HP, CZ-75, EAA Witness, Colt Govt., Commander, Glock 17, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27, 31, 34, 35, H&K P7, Springfield 1911A1, Military 1911 and 1911A1, AMT Hardballer, Auto Ordnance 1911A1, STI/SVI, Para Ordnance .38 super/.40 S&W pistols, Smith & Wesson Performance Center 9mm, 356TSW & 40 Limited, PPC. NOTE: Pistols approved for SSP may also be used in ESP and CDP depending upon caliber.

ted murphy · February 19, 2005, 11:24 PM

The only guns that are ESP only are guns that are single action guns. Traditional DA guns like the Beretta, SIG, S&W, etc are legal for SSP provided they are fired from a decocked position. Safety can be on or off.

On some guns like CZ and taurus that can be fired double action OR cocked and locked, the condition of readiness will determine the division. If the shooter chooses to use them cocked and locked, he must shoot it in esp. If the shooter chooses to use them DA, he can shoot them in either division.

RickB · February 23, 2005, 05:32 PM

LAkid's post has exerpted the "current", that is, old, rule book. A new book goes into effect on April 1, and that essentially opens up ESP to any semi-auto that chambers 9x19 or larger, fits in the box, and weighs 43oz, or less. The new SSP rules dictate a weight of not more than 39oz, which will bump quite a few guns, previously legal in SSP, to ESP, due to the weight limit.

Old Shooter · April 4, 2005, 08:54 PM

.... and a .45 DA can be legal in all 3 divisions.

February 12, 2005, 11:32 AM	#1
Charlie Golf Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 34	Clarification of IDPA Divisions Is this right: Stock Service Pistol weapons MUST be DAO or "safe" action? Enhanced Service Pistol weapons MAY be DA/SA? So if I have a USPC DAO I could shoot in either SSP or ESP but with my DA/SA 92F and P239 I would be limited to ESP? And for that matter, the IDPA Rule Book makes a differentiation between "double-action" and "double-action only" yet both are listed in the SSP criteria....can someone explain that to me please? And didn't there used to be a "Backup Pistol Division?"

April 4, 2005, 08:54 PM	#6
Old Shooter Senior Member Join Date: March 29, 2005 Location: Greenville/Anderson area of SC Posts: 281	.... and a .45 DA can be legal in all 3 divisions. __________________ My life is based on a true story .... Sometimes I wish I could sit back and watch the things I do.

February 12, 2005, 02:45 PM	#2
cadfael Junior Member Join Date: August 21, 2002 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 12	For SSP, the FIRST shot must be double action (or a glock), any follow up shots can be single action, so a stock Berretta could be shot in either SSP or ESP. Backup guns were always strictly a club-level match only division. They're still in the rulebook (page 26). Adam

February 13, 2005, 06:34 PM	#3
LAkid Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2005 Location: Los Angeles, CAlifornia Posts: 7	Handguns permitted for STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division must be Double Action, Double Action ONLY, or Safe Action and be of 9mm (9x19) or larger caliber, be readily available on dealers’ shelves, have a minimum annual production of 2000 units (discontinued models must have had a total production of 20,000 units) and meet the following criteria: Pistol including magazine must fit in a box measuring 8 3/4" x 6 " x 1 5/8".* No external modifications other than changing sights and grips will be permitted.* To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is ten (10). NON-INCLUSIVE list of pistols permitted:* (These are just examples of pistols that meet STOCK SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.) Astra A-75, A-100, Beretta 92FS, 92 Elite, 96, Cougar, Browning, BDA, CZ 75, 85, 100, Daewoo DP-51, DH-40, Desert Eagle Baby Eagle, EAA Witness, FEG PJK-9HP, Glock 19, 17, 20, 21, 22, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 34, 35, H&K USP, Kahr K9, K40, Para-Ordnance LDA,* Ruger,Ruger P89, KP89, KP90, KP93, KP94, P95, P97,* Sig, Sig 220, 225, 226, 228 & 229, Smith and Wesson 908, 909, 910, 1006, 3913, 3953, 4506, 4516, 4566, 4586, 6904, 6906, 6946, 4013, 4053, 4046, 410, 4006, 4043, 5903, 5904, 5906, 5946 & Sigma, Smith & Wesson Performance Center Shorty 9, 40 & 45, model 5906 Tactical, Taurus* PT92, PT908, PT99, PT100, PT940, PT101, PT945, PT911, Walther P88, P-99 NOTE:* Selective DA/SA pistols MUST begin hammer down. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION Handguns permitted for ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL division must be Single Action or selective SA/DA and be of 9mm (9x19), (9x21), (9x23), .38 Super, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .41 AE, 10mm Norma, .400 Cor-Bon and meet the following criteria: Pistol including empty magazine must fit in a box measuring 8 3/4" x 6" x 1 5/8" and have a maximum unloaded weight of 43 oz. To reduce cost and provide a level playing field for all pistols permitted, the maximum number of rounds that may be loaded in a magazine is ten (10).* NON-INCLUSIVE list of pistols permitted:* (These are just examples of pistols that meet ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL DIVISION requirements and is NOT meant to be a definitive list of approved pistols.) Browning HP, CZ-75, EAA Witness, Colt Govt., Commander, Glock 17, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27, 31, 34, 35, H&K P7, Springfield 1911A1, Military 1911 and 1911A1, AMT Hardballer, Auto Ordnance 1911A1, STI/SVI, Para Ordnance .38 super/.40 S&W pistols, Smith & Wesson Performance Center 9mm, 356TSW & 40 Limited, PPC. NOTE: Pistols approved for SSP may also be used in ESP and CDP depending upon caliber.

February 19, 2005, 11:24 PM	#4
ted murphy Member Join Date: February 10, 2005 Posts: 32	The only guns that are ESP only are guns that are single action guns. Traditional DA guns like the Beretta, SIG, S&W, etc are legal for SSP provided they are fired from a decocked position. Safety can be on or off. On some guns like CZ and taurus that can be fired double action OR cocked and locked, the condition of readiness will determine the division. If the shooter chooses to use them cocked and locked, he must shoot it in esp. If the shooter chooses to use them DA, he can shoot them in either division.

February 23, 2005, 05:32 PM	#5
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	LAkid's post has exerpted the "current", that is, old, rule book. A new book goes into effect on April 1, and that essentially opens up ESP to any semi-auto that chambers 9x19 or larger, fits in the box, and weighs 43oz, or less. The new SSP rules dictate a weight of not more than 39oz, which will bump quite a few guns, previously legal in SSP, to ESP, due to the weight limit.