Apartment security question

Shawn3879 · May 17, 2002, 01:51 PM

I wonder if it could be sucessfully argued (to a prosecutor) that an out of doors, small (5'x8'), fenced by guard railing, porch, on the second floor, of a condo/apartment could be considered "inside the house"? I wonder if the area were fully enclosed with screen wire if it would make the argument stronger? Just curious? I have heard stories a few times of BGs climbing up to the second floor and then coming in through the sliding glass window. Any thoughts???

Carry24x7 · May 17, 2002, 02:16 PM

Would a reasonable person upon viewing your apartment and upon reading the Lease Agreement agree that the patio is a part of your "apartment?"

If you think the answer is "Yes," (I think the answer is "Yes") then no problem.

Its part of your domicile. Now, if the threat is imminent you can blast away.

flinch_of_gt · May 17, 2002, 11:28 PM

Be careful. I think a gentleman somewhere in PA got six months for zapping a druken neighbor through a sliding door. The jury obviously didn't believe that the patio constituted part of the domicle.

Contact a lawyer who knows your state laws pertaining to self-defense.

krept · May 18, 2002, 12:12 AM

Makes a good case for a light in addition to a weapon. Not necessarily mounted.

Shawn, I wouldn't pull the trigger until he is on the inside. You might want to consider a motion sensing light, alarm system, stuff like that if you are in the situation you described. Any type of evidence you can present to show the jury you gave the bad guy as many ways out as possible.

Carry24x7 · May 22, 2002, 01:56 PM

While its generally true that you don't have the responsibility to flee in a in-domicile situation you still have to consider the threat level.

A jury could consider that a patio, while part of a domicile, is external to the domicile and therefore the threat is less.

If the person on the patio has (what looks like) an MP5 that's different. Shoot.

If that person has a big stick and you have a big gun it might very well be better to take a step or two back and let them enter before stopping them profoundly.

Greybeard · May 25, 2002, 07:05 PM

In either event, the legal system could give you the ride of a lifetime. :barf: :barf: :barf: Avoid making it potentially even worse.

Especially to a civil jury, even in your own home (assuming you are single), it would look much better if you had retreated as far as practical and had 911 on the phone when the manure hit the oscillator ...

Greybeard · May 25, 2002, 07:17 PM

While some sliding patio doors can be pryed up and off the track, something as simple as a 3' stick or cut off brrom handle wedged in just above the lower track can make 'em have to work harder at getting in - and make more noise. Such BGs do not like noise. Ya might think about getting some type of battery opperated alarm for that opening in particular.

Gomez · May 26, 2002, 09:23 PM

If you make your apartment as secure as possible [solid core doors, good locks, exterior lighting, etc] this will serve a couple of purposes. First, it'll make the apartment harder to access. Second, it'll give you more notice of someone trying to gain entry.
Third, it'll make it easier to establish that BG-Prime had criminal intent trying to gain entry [He smashed the perimeter lights to make it easier to approach unseen. He kicked the door (witness the footprints). And then he broke the side window, which didn't break out due to the mylar security film, and then ripped out the
window frame to gain entry.] Of course, if you've backed the family up into the safe room, secured the deadbolt,accessed the 12 gauge, dialed 911 on your celphone and issued loud verbal directives. You are as close to golden as you can get.

May 17, 2002, 01:51 PM	#1
Shawn3879 Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2002 Posts: 156	Apartment security question I wonder if it could be sucessfully argued (to a prosecutor) that an out of doors, small (5'x8'), fenced by guard railing, porch, on the second floor, of a condo/apartment could be considered "inside the house"? I wonder if the area were fully enclosed with screen wire if it would make the argument stronger? Just curious? I have heard stories a few times of BGs climbing up to the second floor and then coming in through the sliding glass window. Any thoughts???

May 17, 2002, 02:16 PM	#2
Carry24x7 Junior member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 196	Don't Worry About It Would a reasonable person upon viewing your apartment and upon reading the Lease Agreement agree that the patio is a part of your "apartment?" If you think the answer is "Yes," (I think the answer is "Yes") then no problem. Its part of your domicile. Now, if the threat is imminent you can blast away.

May 22, 2002, 01:56 PM	#5
Carry24x7 Junior member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 196	You Have To Find A Balance.... While its generally true that you don't have the responsibility to flee in a in-domicile situation you still have to consider the threat level. A jury could consider that a patio, while part of a domicile, is external to the domicile and therefore the threat is less. If the person on the patio has (what looks like) an MP5 that's different. Shoot. If that person has a big stick and you have a big gun it might very well be better to take a step or two back and let them enter before stopping them profoundly.

May 17, 2002, 11:28 PM	#3
flinch_of_gt Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2001 Location: Snow Bunny Country Posts: 371	Be careful. I think a gentleman somewhere in PA got six months for zapping a druken neighbor through a sliding door. The jury obviously didn't believe that the patio constituted part of the domicle. Contact a lawyer who knows your state laws pertaining to self-defense.

May 18, 2002, 12:12 AM	#4
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 21, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Makes a good case for a light in addition to a weapon. Not necessarily mounted. Shawn, I wouldn't pull the trigger until he is on the inside. You might want to consider a motion sensing light, alarm system, stuff like that if you are in the situation you described. Any type of evidence you can present to show the jury you gave the bad guy as many ways out as possible.

May 25, 2002, 07:05 PM	#6
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 686	In either event, the legal system could give you the ride of a lifetime. :barf: :barf: :barf: Avoid making it potentially even worse. Especially to a civil jury, even in your own home (assuming you are single), it would look much better if you had retreated as far as practical and had 911 on the phone when the manure hit the oscillator ...

May 25, 2002, 07:17 PM	#7
Greybeard Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2002 Location: Denton County Texas Posts: 686	While some sliding patio doors can be pryed up and off the track, something as simple as a 3' stick or cut off brrom handle wedged in just above the lower track can make 'em have to work harder at getting in - and make more noise. Such BGs do not like noise. Ya might think about getting some type of battery opperated alarm for that opening in particular.

May 26, 2002, 09:23 PM	#8
Gomez Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 297	If you make your apartment as secure as possible [solid core doors, good locks, exterior lighting, etc] this will serve a couple of purposes. First, it'll make the apartment harder to access. Second, it'll give you more notice of someone trying to gain entry. Third, it'll make it easier to establish that BG-Prime had criminal intent trying to gain entry [He smashed the perimeter lights to make it easier to approach unseen. He kicked the door (witness the footprints). And then he broke the side window, which didn't break out due to the mylar security film, and then ripped out the window frame to gain entry.] Of course, if you've backed the family up into the safe room, secured the deadbolt,accessed the 12 gauge, dialed 911 on your celphone and issued loud verbal directives. You are as close to golden as you can get.