Swift Scirocco bullets for 300 WSM

[troyinidaho]

I read somewhere that these bullets have diffetent load data than comparable bullets {Accubond, BT, SST). I only have the Hornady and Nosler book, not the Swift book.
I want to load some of the Scirocco 2 bullets, in 150 and 180 grain. I shelled out enough for the bullets awhile back, don't want to shell out more for the big book just for these loads. Thanks in advance.

[disseminator]

Hodgdon's Reloading Center has data for the 180 in the 300 WSM.

I haven't shot the 150 in the WSM but the 180 is pretty good. I just bought a box of .284 150's for my 7mm's and can't wait to shoot them.

I haven't gotten one bloody yet, but a little searching will show they are excellent for Deer, Elk, Moose, Etc....

[troyinidaho]

Thanks for directing me to some info disseminator. I'm thinking the 150 grain will be an excellent longer range for mule deer or antelope. The 180 for elk. I've never used these bullets before and thought I'd give them a whirl!

[FrankenMauser]

...Possibly. Possibly not.
It depends on what you're looking for in the bullet, and what you consider "long range" (read that as 'what your impact velocity will be').

The Scirocco II was released because people wanted more "Ballistic Tip"-like performance from the original Scirocco than controlled expansion.
So the updated version is a bit more fragile that Swift actually wanted the bullet to be.


Use the 180 gr data as a guide for how to adjust load data to get started with the 150s. They're not as 'different' as some sources might make you think.

[disseminator]

Thanks for directing me to some info disseminator. I'm thinking the 150 grain will be an excellent longer range for mule deer or antelope. The 180 for elk. I've never used these bullets before and thought I'd give them a whirl!

While it is a matter of preference for the most part, if you are specifically wanting a Long Range bullet, the 180 is probably a better choice as it's higher BC and weight will be an advantage downrange.

The Scirocco II was released because people wanted more "Ballistic Tip"-like performance from the original Scirocco than controlled expansion.
So the updated version is a bit more fragile that Swift actually wanted the bullet to be.

Do you have a source for the design change to the Scirocco II vs the original? I ask because I was under the impression the main difference with the Scirocco II was a change from a pure copper jacket (softer) to a gilding metal jacket. (harder) Apparently some folks had leading issues with the originals and some bullet blow up at close range as well.

One of the "down sides" to this change is a larger expansion versus the original design that could in theory reduce penetration but is mostly negated by the very high weight retention of the bullet.

So the design goal in my understanding is similar performance to the Nosler AccuBond but with a bit more expansion.

[FrankenMauser]

You're right, I was remembering it backwards.
Swift wanted the 'softer' bullet, but customers complained that it wasn't as tough as the A-Frame. (Was never supposed to be... )

[troyinidaho]

Then I think that 190 grain Accubond Long Range bullet would be pretty good. Then I think why, it's a 300 WSM and a Sierra Gameking would probably have same results.

[disseminator]

That's a lot of thinking.

I've shot both of the bullets you mentioned in my 300 WSM. I have also shot the 210 ABLR and found it superior to the 190 grain. The SBT Sierra 180 is a great bullet but I just don't like it in this cartridge.

I am currently shooting the 200 grain Barnes LRX in my WSM and it's a keeper. I'm done looking for loads for this rifle. The LRX shoots really great in this gun and I recommend it.

I'm fine tuning the loads around 2800 fps from my 24" barrel. That's almost the same speed I'm getting from the 210 ABLR and they are both VERY accurate loads.

[troyinidaho]

I'm still learning how this Tikka rifle shoots. Nosler Ammo the 180 gr is sub moa. Of course with ballistic tips as well. The factory 190 Accubond long range shot horribly. Probably about a 3" group.

The best factory load so far is the Federal Premium 165 gr trophy bonded tip. Dead center cloverleaf.

I emailed Swift about their bullets and asked for load data. No response. My dad bought two boxes each of the 150 and 180 gr varieties at around $60 a box. I'm thinking of returning and buying different bullets to work up a load. I consider no response from Swift to be pretty crappy customer service to someone spending $250+ on their bullets. Maybe just small peanuts to them, but not to me.

[disseminator]

The best factory load so far is the Federal Premium 165 gr trophy bonded tip. Dead center cloverleaf.

I emailed Swift about their bullets and asked for load data. No response. My dad bought two boxes each of the 150 and 180 gr varieties at around $60 a box. I'm thinking of returning and buying different bullets to work up a load. I consider no response from Swift to be pretty crappy customer service to someone spending $250+ on their bullets. Maybe just small peanuts to them, but not to me.

The Trophy Bonded is a great bullet. If your happy with it, why not use it?

You don't need data specific to the Scirocco II, just use published data for the same weight and type of bullet, start low, and work up.

I have the SWIFT reloading manual and the load data is nothing special at all.

If you compare the Scirocco II to a comparable Nosler bullet like the AccuBond, the Nosler is actually the same price or more expensive. All premium bullets are not cheap.

Good Luck.

[Stats Shooter]

All premium bullets are not cheap.

All I demand from a hunting bullet is: Match grade accuracy, excellent ballistic coefficient, perfect expansion, deep penetration, good weight retention, and indifference to seating depth...and at less than $0.20/bullet

is that so much to ask?

[disseminator]

All I demand from a hunting bullet is: Match grade accuracy, excellent ballistic coefficient, perfect expansion, deep penetration, good weight retention, and indifference to seating depth...and at less than $0.20/bullet

is that so much to ask?

Oh no, not at all.

Do let me know when you find them.

[troyinidaho]

Disseminator I may have to use that ammo. I was looking for bullets to handload.
Mostly I am looking for a muley deer bullet. What would you recommend for the 300WSM. Would it be better a lighter fast bullet such as the accubond or partition, or a heavier slower softer bullet? A buddy uses 200 gr Gamekings.

[T. O'Heir]

"...want to load some of the Scirocco 2 bullets, in 150 and 180 grain..." Use any 150 or 180 grain data. You do not need manufacturer specific data.

[disseminator]

Disseminator I may have to use that ammo. I was looking for bullets to handload.
Mostly I am looking for a muley deer bullet. What would you recommend for the 300WSM. Would it be better a lighter fast bullet such as the accubond or partition, or a heavier slower softer bullet? A buddy uses 200 gr Gamekings.

Opinions will vary of course, but I don't think any bullet less than about 180 grains is good in this cartridge. They just get too fast IMO, and your better off with a heavier and higher BC bullet in MOST cases.

I tried: 165 AccuBond, 180 Scirocco II, 210 AccuBond LR, and the 200 grain Barnes LRX.

Some people say that bullets heavier than 180 aren't good in the WSM, but that has not been my experience at all.

Of those I have loaded for, the 210 ABLR and the 200 Barnes were the best by far with consistent groups with basically ALL the loads I worked up.

That says a lot too me. Of course Rifles will vary. My Model 70 has a 1:10 twist which is suited to these heavier bullets.

The AccuBond's and the Scirocco II were good, but just not AS GOOD as the heavier bullets IMO. I tend to favor heavy for caliber bullets anyways so that is always a factor.

I think the 200 grain Barnes LRX is the best bullet for this gun to about 500 yards. Then I would go to the 210 ABLR for better long range performance. ( But I won't shoot game past 500 so....)

The 200 Game King is a fine bullet too. It is a non-bonded bullet that will come apart under some circumstances but it is also well proven, especially for Deer vs Elk or Moose. As for the Federal Premium Trophy Bonded, I'd use em if I didn't handload. 180 grain for me.

I use Norma Brass, Remington 9-1/2 M Primers, and Ramshot HUNTER powder.

[Stats Shooter]

I have never owned a wsm...But I have ample experience with the .300 wm. At .300 wm velocity potential, bullets below 180 gr are IMHO a poor choice. I try and maximize muzzle energy and there is a non-linear relationship between bullet weight and velocity holding constant the jump and specific rifle.

If you plot muzzle energy against bullet weight at max Quick load velocities, it will peak at a weight range and the taper off again. In the .300 wm seated to SAAMI, this range is 190-210 gr. At heavier weights the velocity goes down too quickly and at lower weight bullets you just can't push them fast enough....And even if you could many of them would explode.

So, given that the wsm is about 100 fps slower than a .300 wm at most weights, I would say the optimal bullet weight is 180-200 or so.

[old roper]

The Tikka 300 WSM has 1/11 twist barrel.

[Ifishsum]

I found the Scirocco II 180s to load pretty well the same as other 180gr jacketed; at least the velocity was comparable to what the manuals said it should be (in .300 WM and 300 Wby anyway). I think the 180 is both the better med/long range choice and also the better elk choice, with added advantage being you don't have to re-zero between deer and elk season. The 180gr Scirocco II has a great BC; probably passes up the 150gr by 400yds out and have more energy to boot.

[troyinidaho]

Ill settle on something and get working up a load. A good elk load which of course will also take down the big muley.
On a side note. Today I bought on clearance some ammo. Yes I had to take out a mortgage. It is Norma USA . It is the 165 grain oryx. Incredibly accurate ammo. It is the power that got me. Leaving the barrel at 3,190 fps/3,729 ft/lbs. Most powerful factory I've seen. Only downside is a low BC so it doesn't carry that energy far downrange. They also have in 180 gr but none in stock. I was told the 165 had more power. The 180 also has a low BC though.
Getting to my point this ammo would be tough to beat handloading wouldnt it for both accuracy and power? For a deer load this stuff would be fantastic for a dedicated hunting cartridge. Well hell elk too.
So what kind of power are you getting disseminator with those 200 gr LRX loads? All the store had was the 180 accubonds and 165 Barnes so ill probably just buy from Graf's. This Oryx bullet also looks pretty good in a 180 variety.

[disseminator]

The max loads I have done with the 200 LRX are just under 2900 feet. That would give 3730 pounds of energy which is in line with the Norma load you bought.

The ORYX bullet is an excellent choice as long as you are not looking to shoot beyond 400 yards. It seems to be a trend with the European bullet makers, at least Norma and Lapua, that the hunting bullets are more flat nosed and have a bit lower BC. This is likely due to the long history in Europe with the 160 round nose in the 6.5 Swede. I think in the case of normal hunting ranges this is not a bad thing. My favorite load in my Sako 308 Win is a 170 Lapua Naturalis that has this same low BC wide Meplat design.

In the end what matters is that you can place a good shot with the ammo you have chosen. The ORYX is a good tough bullet with high weight retention that will result in good expansion and deep penetration vs other bullets which shed more mass.

The idea of power is different to different people and hard to quantify. If we are just talking about energy, than most bullets you can buy in a particular range will be said to have the same power. Like Mississippi pointed out, there will be a range of bullet weights where any given cartridge will give it's maximum energy. These may or may not intersect with the best terminal performance of the bullet which is where I feel "power" is truly measured.