Faulty Leupold or Wimpy rings?

Dave P · August 15, 2001, 11:36 AM

Recently mounted a large VariX-3 (6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target) on high STD rings. All Leupold stuff, on a Rem 700 in .308.

The 2 piece bases worked loose. Replaced with one pc base, but I still get a flyer out of every group. Typical flyer is about 1" off to the side.

The scope has just gone back to Oregon, where I asked for a replacement. But I wonder now if the rings/mounts are just too wimpy for this scope.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Dave

James K · August 15, 2001, 04:21 PM

I can't be sure, but one flyer out of a group doesn't sound like a loose scope mount. With loose mounts or rings, they are all flyers!

Jim

Nukem · August 16, 2001, 03:22 PM

I'm using two piece mounts with QD rings, same scope, but the screws are loctited on the bases and they haven't come loose yet. This is on a 300 Winmag.

Most "flyers" are the shooters fault. I know mine are.

How far are you shooting these groups?

Paul B. · August 16, 2001, 05:11 PM

Methinks the problem may lie in the mounts, rather than the scope. Ross Seyfried had an artitle on jus this very thing not too long ago. What he said made a lot of sense.
Point one. Your scope is very heavy, as scopes go. Therefore, it has a lot of inertia. When your rifle recoils, the scope tend to stay in place, ergo it slides foreward. Actually it doesn't slide foreward, the gun is sliding out from under it.
He actaully said that the "cheapie" Weaver rings are better for your type application than the Leupold mounts. Apparently, according to Ross, only the forard ring in the Leupold, Redfield, Burris type mounts do any real holding of the scope. He says the rear ring holds nothing due to the way it is attached to the base. He may be right. I have seen mounts of the type mentioned actuallt bugger up the little slots that the windage screws on the base go into. I have never had a problem with Weaver's "El Cheapo" rings, other than getting the cross hairs perfectly stright up and down. He did mention some other brands of mounts that worked in the same manner as Weaver's, but I forget what they were.
Just something to consider.
Paul B.

RiverRider · August 17, 2001, 05:26 AM

I think that if there's really a problem with the rifle at all, it would be the bedding. I would be looking at the barrel channel and the tension of the action screws.

I agree with the criticism of the Redfield-style mounts. The Weaver type is definitely stronger and more reliable. The problem with Weaver is that they are, well...less than aesthetically pleasing. That's why I always go with the Leupold Dual Dovetail mount if possible, and if not I try to use a Weaver mount and Burris Zee rings. I have yet to try Cone-trol or SK mounts, but my next "non-hardware store" rifle will wear something like that.

My first criteria in selecting a scope mounting system is strength, but it's got to look good too!

Dave P · August 17, 2001, 07:11 AM

More info: I am shooting at 100 yrds when I get the 1 inch flyer. I had a smaller VariX3 on the rifle already (with different Leupold 2 pc double D mounts and rings) and was shooting very well, something like <.5 MOA. So it doesn't seem to be a rifle or bedding problem. I did check the stock screws and they are tight.

Leupold has the scope now, so I am waitng to hear what they say

Art Eatman · August 18, 2001, 12:05 PM

I have always had good luck with the Weaver-style bases and rings...

I do have one set of Conetrols, and they're both pretty and excellent. It does take three or four hands and twice-crossed eyes to get everything hooked up and working, though.

$0.02, Art

Dave P · August 20, 2001, 02:19 PM

Leupold said there was a problem in the parallax devices: I should have it back ASAP to try it!

RiverRider · August 21, 2001, 01:03 AM

Anyone know a good recipe for crow?

Dave P · September 4, 2001, 11:39 AM

Scope and ring combo still seems no-good after the factory "fixed" the scope. I did shoot a .4" group yesterday with that rifle, but different Scope and ring combo.

Leupold is sending me a DD rear mount and ring to try next.

Stay tuned!

PS Who is that crow pie directed at?

Dave P · November 14, 2001, 08:25 AM

After the scope came back from the factory the second time (no problem found) I took it to the range.

First four groups at 100 yrds were similar: all shots but one were <1/4", and all had one flyer about 1/2" out of the main group. These are 3 or 5 shot groups. The flyer is often in the upper left corner - what does that mean?

Why would just one be a flyer? Yes it could be the shooter, but I don't think so. Could be the ammo, I suppose. How 'bout thermal issues - as the bbl warms up I would expect the group to string along, I don't see that.

I had nail polish on the joints of the rings and mounts, looking for signs of flexing or movement - did not see any.

I picked up a weaver rail and Zee rings to try next. Any other thoughts?

700PSS Shooter · November 18, 2001, 12:58 AM

You do not say what 700 .308 you have, but my 700PSS in .308 has Rock of Gibraltar strength with Badger Ordnance Maximized Rings and Picatinny base.

My PSS in .223 uses Leupold Mark4 rings and bases.

Both are expensive, heavy and very good with Badger being heavier duty.

August 15, 2001, 11:36 AM	#1
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Faulty Leupold or Wimpy rings? Recently mounted a large VariX-3 (6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target) on high STD rings. All Leupold stuff, on a Rem 700 in .308. The 2 piece bases worked loose. Replaced with one pc base, but I still get a flyer out of every group. Typical flyer is about 1" off to the side. The scope has just gone back to Oregon, where I asked for a replacement. But I wonder now if the rings/mounts are just too wimpy for this scope. Any thoughts on this? Thanks Dave

August 16, 2001, 05:11 PM	#4
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Methinks the problem may lie in the mounts, rather than the scope. Ross Seyfried had an artitle on jus this very thing not too long ago. What he said made a lot of sense. Point one. Your scope is very heavy, as scopes go. Therefore, it has a lot of inertia. When your rifle recoils, the scope tend to stay in place, ergo it slides foreward. Actually it doesn't slide foreward, the gun is sliding out from under it. He actaully said that the "cheapie" Weaver rings are better for your type application than the Leupold mounts. Apparently, according to Ross, only the forard ring in the Leupold, Redfield, Burris type mounts do any real holding of the scope. He says the rear ring holds nothing due to the way it is attached to the base. He may be right. I have seen mounts of the type mentioned actuallt bugger up the little slots that the windage screws on the base go into. I have never had a problem with Weaver's "El Cheapo" rings, other than getting the cross hairs perfectly stright up and down. He did mention some other brands of mounts that worked in the same manner as Weaver's, but I forget what they were. Just something to consider. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

August 17, 2001, 05:26 AM	#5
RiverRider Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2000 Posts: 341	I think that if there's really a problem with the rifle at all, it would be the bedding. I would be looking at the barrel channel and the tension of the action screws. I agree with the criticism of the Redfield-style mounts. The Weaver type is definitely stronger and more reliable. The problem with Weaver is that they are, well...less than aesthetically pleasing. That's why I always go with the Leupold Dual Dovetail mount if possible, and if not I try to use a Weaver mount and Burris Zee rings. I have yet to try Cone-trol or SK mounts, but my next "non-hardware store" rifle will wear something like that. My first criteria in selecting a scope mounting system is strength, but it's got to look good too! __________________ NO Compromise!

August 20, 2001, 02:19 PM	#8
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Fixed! Leupold said there was a problem in the parallax devices: I should have it back ASAP to try it!

August 21, 2001, 01:03 AM	#9
RiverRider Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2000 Posts: 341	Anyone know a good recipe for crow? __________________ NO Compromise!

August 15, 2001, 04:21 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I can't be sure, but one flyer out of a group doesn't sound like a loose scope mount. With loose mounts or rings, they are all flyers! Jim

August 16, 2001, 03:22 PM	#3
Nukem Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Posts: 709	I'm using two piece mounts with QD rings, same scope, but the screws are loctited on the bases and they haven't come loose yet. This is on a 300 Winmag. Most "flyers" are the shooters fault. I know mine are. How far are you shooting these groups?

August 17, 2001, 07:11 AM	#6
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	More info: I am shooting at 100 yrds when I get the 1 inch flyer. I had a smaller VariX3 on the rifle already (with different Leupold 2 pc double D mounts and rings) and was shooting very well, something like <.5 MOA. So it doesn't seem to be a rifle or bedding problem. I did check the stock screws and they are tight. Leupold has the scope now, so I am waitng to hear what they say

August 18, 2001, 12:05 PM	#7
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I have always had good luck with the Weaver-style bases and rings... I do have one set of Conetrols, and they're both pretty and excellent. It does take three or four hands and twice-crossed eyes to get everything hooked up and working, though. $0.02, Art

September 4, 2001, 11:39 AM	#10
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Update Scope and ring combo still seems no-good after the factory "fixed" the scope. I did shoot a .4" group yesterday with that rifle, but different Scope and ring combo. Leupold is sending me a DD rear mount and ring to try next. Stay tuned! PS Who is that crow pie directed at?

November 14, 2001, 08:25 AM	#11
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	Latest data After the scope came back from the factory the second time (no problem found) I took it to the range. First four groups at 100 yrds were similar: all shots but one were <1/4", and all had one flyer about 1/2" out of the main group. These are 3 or 5 shot groups. The flyer is often in the upper left corner - what does that mean? Why would just one be a flyer? Yes it could be the shooter, but I don't think so. Could be the ammo, I suppose. How 'bout thermal issues - as the bbl warms up I would expect the group to string along, I don't see that. I had nail polish on the joints of the rings and mounts, looking for signs of flexing or movement - did not see any. I picked up a weaver rail and Zee rings to try next. Any other thoughts? Last edited by Dave P; November 14, 2001 at 07:45 PM.

November 18, 2001, 12:58 AM	#12
700PSS Shooter Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: Virginia (The Old Dominion) Posts: 367	You do not say what 700 .308 you have, but my 700PSS in .308 has Rock of Gibraltar strength with Badger Ordnance Maximized Rings and Picatinny base. My PSS in .223 uses Leupold Mark4 rings and bases. Both are expensive, heavy and very good with Badger being heavier duty. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759