Pointy cast bullets in 308 Winchester

[Recycled bullet]

These are the NOE309-153-SP loaded into dummy cartridges. They feed great through the AICS magazines for the Ruger Hunter and the hinged floor plate for the Remington Model 7. Testing at the range soon...

This is my new rifle handload testing project and I feel good about the process and progress so far. I bought and cast a new rifle bullet mold, this is the NOE309-153-SP. I made the bullets of a soft metal 1.5% tin 1.5% antimony using the rcbs dipper (ladle casting) over a sauce pot on a turkey fryer. I powder coated the bullets with ultimate chrome paint.
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[Unclenick]

Nice work.

Please note that it is best to size images down to a width of about 1024 pixels or less. Otherwise, it overflows screens (and widens text lines to do the same) and puts a bottom scroll bar in that most people aren't used to looking for, so they just don't see the whole thing.

Here, I resized your last image and hosted it here, and rearranged the image order to narrow things a bit.

[Recycled bullet]

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Nice work.

Please note that it is best to size images down to a width of about 1024 pixels or less. Otherwise, it overflows screens (and widens text lines to do the same) and puts a bottom scroll bar in that most people aren't used to looking for, so they just don't see the whole thing.

Here, I resized your last image and hosted it here, and rearranged the image order to narrow things a bit.

Hello Uncle Nick. I have resized and reposted the photographs in a lower resolution. Please let me know if this works better for the The Firing Line Forum.

[Unclenick]

Thanks. Looks good now!

[Paul B.]

Interesting. No lube groove. Have you shot any yet? All my bullets molds have lube grooves so does powder coating totally remove the need for lube? I've been casting bullets for a very long time but got away from it in 2020 due to a vehicle wreck. Seems there's been some changes since I last cast. Decided I'm going to start up right after New Years' Day.
Paul B.

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by Paul B.

Interesting. No lube groove. Have you shot any yet? All my bullets molds have lube grooves so does powder coating totally remove the need for lube? I've been casting bullets for a very long time but got away from it in 2020 due to a vehicle wreck. Seems there's been some changes since I last cast. Decided I'm going to start up right after New Years' Day.

Paul B.

I have not shot any yet. Eventually I'm going to make some dummies and test them in my RARR 300 Blackout. I want to load them subsonic with Bullseye gunpowder. If they feed through the MagPul BLK magazines that will be awesome.

[Recycled bullet]

Update: the pointy cast bullets shot ok in 300 blackout through the ruger bolt action rifle. I loaded them over 4 grains of bullseye gun powder.

[mehavey]

...does powder coating totally remove the need for lube?

Yes.
And ups the "effective" BHN-related pressure regime "quite a bit."

[5whiskey]

Powder coating is definitely a game changer for casting. I doubt I would have even started casting if PC wasn't so easy. Lubrisizers are expensive, and the liquid Alox method seems less than ideal (on top of needing special Lee molds). I was casting and PCing bullets that shot great after my first casting session (I culled that whole session, that was my learning curve was one casting session of about an hour).

For PC, I don't use the airsoft BB method. I simply preheat the projectiles to be coated to a little less than "can barely stand to hold it in my hand hot," then throw in a bin with powder. Swirl them around for a minute, and they're coated. Often too thickly and not evenly. Then I swirl them around in an empty bin, dumping them into another empty bin. The loose powder will still be in the bottom of the bin, and you can dump this into your Powder bin. Repeat this until there is almost no loose powder in the bottom of the bin after swirling. I then bake to the powder manufacturers specs, and dump them in water immediately after pulling out of the oven. I size after PCing. It's literally so easy a cave man could do it.

[gwpercle]

post deleted

[Recycled bullet]

Second update: I have tested some more of these pointy 30 caliber bullets with 4.5 G of Bullseye powder loaded into 300 Blackout brass fired from the Ruger Ranch Rifle at 50 yards from a wobbly semi-improvised bench with excessive caffeination. I was able to get 10 and 20 shot groups about the size of an egg. There is no deposit of polymer or lead inside of the barrel rifling. The rate of twist is one and seven. I think that the bullets are age hardening based on how it feels seating the bullet and how that correlates with neck tension. They all fed really well. 100% feeding from magazine:-). I have cast some additional amount from a much harder lead, almost as hard as linotype. After these age Harden I'm going to test them with IMR 3031 in 308 Winchester brass and find out if the plain base bullets will be accurate. Oh these harder ones are also light blue.

[Recycled bullet]

I have made a box of these handloads which consist of the 150 grain pointy bullets Over 6.5 Grain of alliant bullseye in 308 Winchester RP brass.

They are pretty accurate and 50 yards a five shot group will have the bullets holes touching each other.

Takes many shots for the gun to get hot and The Recoil is very minimal.

[Marco Califo]

I question the need for using Bullseye powder. That is the only powder that can suddenly disassemble rifles. Someone did destructive testing of 30 caliber military rifles and the only powder they could make destroy the test rifle was Bullseye. Bullseye is also used in mining rock: Drill hole, charge load, plug the hole, use a fuse or electric igniter) as a lower cost alternative to Dynamite. But that was before the pricing spike.
I like the idea, but Unique would be my choice of powder for 308 light loads. Lyman #50 publishes data for cast bullets and Unique: 160 gr cast 9.8-13 gr, 1646 fps. I bought some Berrys 150 gr. plated 30-30 bullets for that load.

[Recycled bullet]

Hello Marco. The reason I started testing Bullseye is because I have almost 16 lb of it and the reason I'm not using unique is because I may only have one or two ounces left. I'm continuing testing because it is fun to shoot and extremely accurate . I'm starting to really enjoy shooting this through my Remington Model 7 lightweight 308 I mounted a Leopold one to four vx2 scope on it. This powder charge of Bullseye is generating enough velocity to be barely supersonic and enough pressure that the case necks don't have soot on the exterior. I doubt that even a double charge would burst my 308 Winchester. I read some pressure Trace data from a helpful Gentleman on cast bullets he told me a double charge of Bullseye 13 grains produces approximately 30-35,000 PSI . However don't go testing that that's a terrible idea!!!!

Respectfully if my target was 1,600 ft per second I would be using IMR 4227 or IMR 3031 and not unique or any fast pistol powder in a rifle. In my personal experience I have also shot 10 Grains of Winchester Auto comp with 150 grain flat nose 30 caliber lead bullets and it shot well. Winchester Auto comp is similar to Unique on the burn rate chart.

Have you shot cast bullets with 13 grains of unique gunpowder and 30 cal rifle? I did and the accuracy was terrible I had Keyholes!!! and bullets leaded the rifling terribly.

[Marco Califo]

I plan to. I have Magnus lead cast ~165 gr. Flat points (with Aluminun gas checks) and Berrys 150 gr plated. Both are 30-30 type. Velocity for both these must be no more than 2000 fps. If I can't hit steel plate silhouettes at 100-250 yards I will be disappointed. My goal is to reduce 308 recoil. Will post results, for Unique.

[Unclenick]

Originally Posted by Marco Califo

That is the only powder that can suddenly disassemble rifles.

Not the only one. The Finnish Gunwriter's site had a .308 Mauser blown apart by N320. Any of the fast powders with enough speed and energy density can do it. I recall Hatcher had a lot of difficulty getting a pressure load that would break an M1 Garand. He found 90,000 CUP would do it for some common bolt actions, but, IIRC, he got to something like an estimated 110,000 CUP before the Garand let go. He had to get special cases made with double-struck heads before he could load high enough for that test without the case head just squirting brass out through the bolt and chamber gap before the target pressure was reached. But I don't recall the powder. I'm just pointing out that a particular 30-cal military rifle is harder to burst than a lot of hunting rifles would be and might explain the test result you are referring to. Also that the only powder to blow up an exceptionally strong rifle need not be the only powder that can blow up weaker ones.

[Recycled bullet]

Assembling the second batch of pointy cast 308 ammunition test.

It brings me joy to shoot these from the Remington rifle.

[Recycled bullet]

One hundred rounds have been completed through the Lee hand press today.

[armoredman]

Only pointy cast rifle bullets I have ever used were also an NOE, a ,314 129gr sized down to ,311 in 7.62x39mm, worked like a charm. Those points sharp!

[Doug Lee]

Are the "pointy" bullets technically called spire point/tip?
Thanks,
Doug Lee
*

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by Doug Lee

Are the "pointy" bullets technically called spire point/tip?
Thanks,
Doug Lee
*

Yes these are spire points. The ogive profile is similar to hornady 150 grain fmj.

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by armoredman

Only pointy cast rifle bullets I have ever used were also an NOE, a ,314 129gr sized down to ,311 in 7.62x39mm, worked like a charm. Those points sharp!

Which mold is your 129 grain noe?

[Jim Watson]

Some years ago, I shot regular lubed cast in .30-06.
Best powders were 2400 and 700X.

NRA said cast spitzers did not shoot well, but the linotype a friend cast for me did.

[armoredman]

Originally Posted by Recycled bullet

Which mold is your 129 grain noe?

I had to go dig it out of the storage box - I've used it exactly once in the last two years, cast up a few for a guy with a 7.6x39mm rifle. It's a wee bit dirty.