Reporter gets shot with full power 357 magnum round 1 foot away with new clothing - Page 2

Brian Pfleuger · February 4, 2010, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillCA

Peetza gets the Jim Fix run-on-sentence-of-the-month award!

Wow! I was going for ridiculous but I wasn't expecting an award! I'd like to thank my parents, and my high school English teacher and.....well, all of you, I just couldn't have done it without all of you!

Mr. James · February 4, 2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Jim Fix run-on-sentence-of-the-month award

Now, that's funny right there!

Congratulations, peetzakilla!

Venom1956 · February 4, 2010, 01:04 PM

Interesting. I'd say .38 before .357 but I really give him credit for doing it. I was impressed that all his employees take a hit. that woman was pretty cute!

armoredman · February 4, 2010, 01:12 PM

Couldn't get the video to load. After watching Rich Davis shoot himself in the chest with a full power handgun, (think it was a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag) into his own Second Chance vest, no, from what people have posted, this probably wouldn't impress me much. You can find that video in the old movie, "Deadly Weapons."

Daugherty16 · February 4, 2010, 01:49 PM

i too thought from the recoil and minimal flame that it was a light .38. Nevertheless, the bullet indeed impacted something hard enough to mushroom and the man was not only unscathed, he appeared unmarked. His face was certainly red, and he was visibly shaken, so i didn't sense anything contrived about that vid.

Perhaps the drape of the coat gave extra absorption to the kevlar panels, as they had the additional room to "give" back to the man's skin from where they were at the time of the shot. That allows the force to be spread over a larger area, and so on.

Impressive.

SigP6Carry · February 4, 2010, 08:45 PM

.36 S&W short maybe? Nah, I kid.

I have to say, though: I believe that body armor should be available to any and all citizens of the united states. I don't see why it should be limited. Expensive, yes... limited, no. But if it's expensive, then classist motives could be called. In anycase, there shouldn't be any hurdles to purchasing body armor other than the price.

grumpycoconut · February 6, 2010, 02:40 AM

I wore armor of various weights for over a decade and got to shoot a fair bit of it too. The last concealable vest I wore was a level II that was almost as light and flexible as a lightly quilted flannel jacket. Ballistic materials are awesome and in the process of getting awesomer. Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

By the way, level II will stop all non armor piercing pistol bullets up to .44 mag at 1400 fps. Most heavy tactical armor is rated level IIIA or III and won't stop rifle rounds without hard plates.

What most people don't understand is that effective man shooting pistol bullets (hollow points) regardless of speed are easier for armor to defeat than solids. Since the structure of a hollow point is designed to collapse, the collapse upon impact with bullet stopping material actually aids in dispersing the bullet's energy.

Defeating armor is actually really easy in theory. Just push the bullet fast enough or make it hard and pointy. For example take a look at the .30 Carbine. It shoots a dumpy little 110 grain round nose copper clad lead ball at a speed that is flat out anemic for any respectable long gun, but at 1900 fps it will punch right through even level III armor that isn't backed by a hard plate. For a hard and pointy example look at the lowly icepick at human propelled speeds. The skinny point slides between the armor strands rather than trying to break through the fabric.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the demonstration. It merely showed modern soft armor defeating a threat that was within it's design envelope.

N.H. Yankee · February 6, 2010, 07:39 AM

Sure hope they have better Q/C than some of the gun companies, one things for sure they won't have too many customer complaints if it isn't.

BillCA · February 6, 2010, 08:01 PM

Grumpy,

I keep a small supply of the Fiocchi 142 TC .357 ammo on hand. I don't know that it'll defeat body armor, but I'm positive that whoever is on the other side of it will take a beating.

Last advertised by Fiocchi at 1350 fps.

bangbangshootshoot · February 6, 2010, 08:49 PM

"I shoot all my employees."
How's that for standing behind your employer's product?
Love it.

KCabbage · February 10, 2010, 04:16 PM

Great thread John, thanks

Some of my favorite quotes:

I shoot all my employees....

Okay my friend, i'm gonna' shoot you.....

There was one more but, I can't remember.

P.S. - Might wanna remove the "full power .357 Magnum" from the title. I think we all know that was a mild .38 load.

KAK · February 11, 2010, 12:02 AM

Yeah thats ridiculous. I find the whole thing to be stupid. Why would you let anyone shoot you with anything even if you had armor?

Double Naught Spy · February 11, 2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

It shoots a dumpy little 110 grain round nose copper clad lead ball at a speed that is flat out anemic for any respectable long gun, but at 1900 fps it will punch right through even level III armor that isn't backed by a hard plate.

Level III armor is hard armor. I believe you mean Level IIIa.

grubbylabs · February 11, 2010, 03:30 PM

Does any one know for sure how modern 300+fps arrows with razor sharp broad heads would do against body armor. I was under the impression that unless there is a hard plate a knife like utensil can penetrate it. If it can then peetzakilla you only need to buy a new speed bow and some good broad heads to defeat the bad guys in their new fashion armor.

KevinBeyerJr · February 11, 2010, 03:57 PM

I am the type of guy that probably spends as much time reading links or referencing terms or items that people refer to, as reading posts.

Quote:

grumpycoconut:
Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

I actually looked into that, and am with you on believing that that will be a heck of a breakthrough. Lightweight, and very easy to produce (easier than plastic, as they claim).

ScottRiqui · February 11, 2010, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away.

I can see how even a very thin layer of the right material would keep the bullet from penetrating the material itself, but if it's that thin & light, what's going to keep the bullet from just pushing the material into your body?

As an example, even with a regular cotton t-shirt, I could drive a very dull tent stake into your chest, breaking the skin, breaking your ribs and crushing/penetrating your heart, all without actually penetrating the t-shirt itself.

I think there's a certain minimum amount of stiffness and/or mass required for effective body armor, no matter how puncture-resistant the material itself is.

KevinBeyerJr · February 11, 2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

ScottRiqui:
As an example, even with a regular cotton t-shirt, I could drive a very dull tent stake into your chest, breaking the skin, breaking your ribs and crushing/penetrating your heart, all without actually penetrating the t-shirt itself.

Seen too many vampire movies lately?

ScottRiqui · February 11, 2010, 04:46 PM

Yep - I knew it was an awkward example even when I was writing it. My point was just that a t-shirt thin layer of anything won't keep the bullet from breaking the skin, penetrating your body and doing significant damage, unless the material is also extremely stiff in order to spread the force over a large area. (Think of a conquistador-style breastplate made of carbon-fiber instead of metal.)

raftman · February 11, 2010, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Seen too many vampire movies lately?

Silly example, but I can see his point... in a way. Thinking about getting punched in the gut or something like that. It can hurt a lot, you may get bruised, but if you're wearing a t-shirt, odds are the t-shirt will be left completely undamaged.

Balog · February 12, 2010, 07:16 PM

Non-Newtonian fluids provide an intriguing possibility of a solution.

dec41971 · February 13, 2010, 02:47 AM

Who needs this when we have Blackberrys and iPhones that will do the job? Just place one in your shot over the heart, any other place shot will rub right out!

misnomerga · February 17, 2010, 03:01 PM

Some of these posts remind me of the great WWII movie titled "To Hell And Back" starring Audie Murphy, where the G.I. retorts to the tanker's comment of "this thing's only got three inches of armor", with "hey buddy how much armor do you think this thing's got" as he grabs his shirt. I say that because any bullet stopping power is better than none IMHO.

February 4, 2010, 01:04 PM	#28
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	Interesting. I'd say .38 before .357 but I really give him credit for doing it. I was impressed that all his employees take a hit. that woman was pretty cute! __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

February 4, 2010, 01:49 PM	#30
Daugherty16 Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: Live Free or Die state Posts: 259	Gotta get me one of those... i too thought from the recoil and minimal flame that it was a light .38. Nevertheless, the bullet indeed impacted something hard enough to mushroom and the man was not only unscathed, he appeared unmarked. His face was certainly red, and he was visibly shaken, so i didn't sense anything contrived about that vid. Perhaps the drape of the coat gave extra absorption to the kevlar panels, as they had the additional room to "give" back to the man's skin from where they were at the time of the shot. That allows the force to be spread over a larger area, and so on. Impressive. __________________ "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon.

February 4, 2010, 08:45 PM	#31
SigP6Carry Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2009 Posts: 1,086	.36 S&W short maybe? Nah, I kid. I have to say, though: I believe that body armor should be available to any and all citizens of the united states. I don't see why it should be limited. Expensive, yes... limited, no. But if it's expensive, then classist motives could be called. In anycase, there shouldn't be any hurdles to purchasing body armor other than the price. __________________ -liberal gun nut = exception to the rule- -1.24274238 miles, because Russians don't need scopes- -Gun control was the Klan's favorite law, how can you advocate a set of laws designed to allow the denigration of a people?-

February 6, 2010, 02:40 AM	#32
grumpycoconut Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 77	I wore armor of various weights for over a decade and got to shoot a fair bit of it too. The last concealable vest I wore was a level II that was almost as light and flexible as a lightly quilted flannel jacket. Ballistic materials are awesome and in the process of getting awesomer. Just wait until spider silk armor becomes economically viable. T-shirt thin armor that can stop most any handgun bullet is not that far away. By the way, level II will stop all non armor piercing pistol bullets up to .44 mag at 1400 fps. Most heavy tactical armor is rated level IIIA or III and won't stop rifle rounds without hard plates. What most people don't understand is that effective man shooting pistol bullets (hollow points) regardless of speed are easier for armor to defeat than solids. Since the structure of a hollow point is designed to collapse, the collapse upon impact with bullet stopping material actually aids in dispersing the bullet's energy. Defeating armor is actually really easy in theory. Just push the bullet fast enough or make it hard and pointy. For example take a look at the .30 Carbine. It shoots a dumpy little 110 grain round nose copper clad lead ball at a speed that is flat out anemic for any respectable long gun, but at 1900 fps it will punch right through even level III armor that isn't backed by a hard plate. For a hard and pointy example look at the lowly icepick at human propelled speeds. The skinny point slides between the armor strands rather than trying to break through the fabric. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the demonstration. It merely showed modern soft armor defeating a threat that was within it's design envelope. __________________ "To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle

February 6, 2010, 07:39 AM	#33
N.H. Yankee Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2004 Location: Rural N.H. Posts: 1,586	Sure hope they have better Q/C than some of the gun companies, one things for sure they won't have too many customer complaints if it isn't. __________________ The real danger to America is not abroad but within.. Having an open mind is a good thing, but not so open that your brains fall out! Save America, abort liberalism.

February 4, 2010, 01:12 PM	#29
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,302	Couldn't get the video to load. After watching Rich Davis shoot himself in the chest with a full power handgun, (think it was a Ruger Redhawk .44 mag) into his own Second Chance vest, no, from what people have posted, this probably wouldn't impress me much. You can find that video in the old movie, "Deadly Weapons."

February 6, 2010, 08:01 PM	#34
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Grumpy, I keep a small supply of the Fiocchi 142 TC .357 ammo on hand. I don't know that it'll defeat body armor, but I'm positive that whoever is on the other side of it will take a beating. Last advertised by Fiocchi at 1350 fps. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

February 6, 2010, 08:49 PM	#35
bangbangshootshoot Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 231	"I shoot all my employees." How's that for standing behind your employer's product? Love it. __________________ All you need for happiness is a good gun, a good horse, and a good wife. -Daniel Boone

February 10, 2010, 04:16 PM	#36
KCabbage Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2007 Posts: 707	Great thread John, thanks Some of my favorite quotes: I shoot all my employees.... Okay my friend, i'm gonna' shoot you..... There was one more but, I can't remember. P.S. - Might wanna remove the "full power .357 Magnum" from the title. I think we all know that was a mild .38 load. Last edited by KCabbage; February 10, 2010 at 06:42 PM.

February 11, 2010, 12:02 AM	#37
KAK Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2010 Posts: 150	***? Yeah thats ridiculous. I find the whole thing to be stupid. Why would you let anyone shoot you with anything even if you had armor?

February 11, 2010, 03:30 PM	#39
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Does any one know for sure how modern 300+fps arrows with razor sharp broad heads would do against body armor. I was under the impression that unless there is a hard plate a knife like utensil can penetrate it. If it can then peetzakilla you only need to buy a new speed bow and some good broad heads to defeat the bad guys in their new fashion armor.

February 11, 2010, 04:46 PM	#43
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Yep - I knew it was an awkward example even when I was writing it. My point was just that a t-shirt thin layer of anything won't keep the bullet from breaking the skin, penetrating your body and doing significant damage, unless the material is also extremely stiff in order to spread the force over a large area. (Think of a conquistador-style breastplate made of carbon-fiber instead of metal.) Last edited by ScottRiqui; February 11, 2010 at 11:05 PM.

February 12, 2010, 07:16 PM	#45
Balog Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Posts: 259	Non-Newtonian fluids provide an intriguing possibility of a solution.

February 13, 2010, 02:47 AM	#46
dec41971 Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Posts: 236	Who needs this when we have Blackberrys and iPhones that will do the job? Just place one in your shot over the heart, any other place shot will rub right out!

February 17, 2010, 03:01 PM	#47
misnomerga Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 139	Reminds me of the great line from the movie Some of these posts remind me of the great WWII movie titled "To Hell And Back" starring Audie Murphy, where the G.I. retorts to the tanker's comment of "this thing's only got three inches of armor", with "hey buddy how much armor do you think this thing's got" as he grabs his shirt. I say that because any bullet stopping power is better than none IMHO.