Are the snubies being underated?

[Alan0354]

I just bought a Glock 26 and took it home today. I like the size and weight. In the store, I checked out the Rugen LC 380. But when I went home, I took out my S&W model 36 and put it side by side with the Glock, it is NOT bigger, slightly lighter.

If compare to S&W M&P Shield or Ruger LC, the 36 is NOT inferior in size, weight and stopping power particularly against the Ruger 380. It is 5 shot, but the other smaller polymers are 7 shots, it's not as if it's day and night difference.

The most important part for me is the reliability, you cannot beat the reliability of a revolver. Revolvers don't jam.....PERIOD. One thing from my experience, bigger and heavier semi auto are inherently much more reliable, when you get the size down the reliability suffers. I am sure Glock 19, Sig P226 etc. are very reliable, but how about the tiny ones?

Not to mention you can get the aluminum frame S&W and Ruger snubies that are like 14oz only, now only the Ruger LCR 380 can even compare. Now you are talking about 38+P vs 380. It's not even a close call.

Remember, I just bought a Glock and brought it home today, not that I am sour grapes. I was thinking about buying a Ruger LC or S&W Shield, I am really having second thoughts after looking at my 36. Here are two pictures:




One thing about the the 36, the wood grip can be sanded down and thin out all the way so it's not bulkey I know for a fact there is no mechanism inside that go beyond the metal frame. You just need to leave enough thickness of the wood to hold it in one piece. You can see you can shave off a lot of thickness on the grip.



EDIT: I want to be very specific, I am ONLY comparing little J frame snubies with the pocket auto like S&W Shield, Ruger LC, LCR type of small pocket pistols of weight below 19oz. AND for concealment, carry a lot, shoot a little type situation. And in clean environment. These are not meant for situation where you expect a gun fight or going to war where you worry about mud and sand. I truly think that big revolvers like the K and L frames are out of date, 30+oz and only 6 rounds, slow to reload. Their time have way passed. Only the little snubies are talking here.

[JERRYS.]

when used with tactics in mind they are great guns.

[Alan0354]

What do you mean by tactics?

[JERRYS.]

if you want to shoot long range, choose something else.
if you expect multiple assailants, choose something else.
if you want to carry only one gun, choose something else.

if you want an easy to conceal second gun, get one.
if you want a coat pocket gun, get one.
if you want a gun that can be fired 'til empty while in the pocket/purse, get one.

[SIGSHR]

Charlie Askins described a snubby as a belly gun-"You press it against your opponent's belly and press the trigger." And one advantage to a revolver is that pressing the barrel against an enemy won't push it out of battery.

[Radny97]

Snubbies have been under rated for the last 25 years.


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[defjon]

I'm a huge fan of snubbies and a 642 is my daily carry about 75% of the time.

But revolvers absolutely "jam", just not the way your g26 or lcp would.

Dirt under the star?

Primer backed out?

Critical parts failure?

Etc.

They, like all things mechanical, can and do fail.

Unlike a semi auto, when they do fail they often do so spectacularly. No tap-rack-bang to fix it.

If you shoot revolvers enough you begin to understand why military and police have moved away from them, and again - this is coming from an absolute revolver fan.

I keep one for carry and home defense.

But my eyes are wide open on their short comings and I have a good local gunsmith for issues beyond my meager abilities.

[Kreyzhorse]

I don't think Snubs are under rated, they are just over looked.

Just because the design isn't new, doesn't mean it doesn't work.

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by defjon

I'm a huge fan of snubbies and a 642 is my daily carry about 75% of the time.

But revolvers absolutely "jam", just not the way your g26 or lcp would.

Dirt under the star?

Primer backed out?

Critical parts failure?

Etc.

They, like all things mechanical, can and do fail.

Unlike a semi auto, when they do fail they often do so spectacularly. No tap-rack-bang to fix it.

If you shoot revolvers enough you begin to understand why military and police have moved away from them, and again - this is coming from an absolute revolver fan.

I keep one for carry and home defense.

But my eyes are wide open on their short comings and I have a good local gunsmith for issues beyond my meager abilities.

Revolvers are NOT for battles where you get dirty, in the mud. It jam with dirt and sand. That's where the semi-auto shines.

BUT we are here, not at war. I am talking about self defense, concealment for us. I even agree, If I were to expect trouble and really arm up, I would take my S&W 659 with 20 rounds mag any time of the day. I am only comparing with small pocket pistols like Ruger LC, LCR, S&W Shield type where you carry with you day in and day out for "just in case".

I would not compare with even a Glock 19 that can carry 17 rounds.

I never say anything about the big K frame S&W or the Colt Python type of big revolvers, I really think those are out of date already, now you are talking about a 30+oz monster that can only carry 6 rounds where I can have a high capacity Glock 17 or other bigger caliber semi auto that are a lot lighter

I started this thread only comparing J frame snubies vs tiny 380 or 9mm semi auto. aluminum snubies definitely have the weight to power ratio advantage.

[shurshot]

If empty (or jammed!) and being attacked, which one makes a better last ditch blunt object for self defense, a small plastic framed 9mm / .380, or a STEEL or Aluminum snubnosed .38 / .357??

"30+ oz monster" revolver (or metal framed pistol), might be appreciated in this scenario.

[Radny97]

Revolvers aren’t “go to war” guns in today’s day and age. They only had limited wartime roles as far back as WWI and zero wartime roles since the end of Vietnam.

Where revolvers shine is in concealed carry and woods carry roles.

A snubbie can fill both nicely. I carry a snubbie very often. More than 50% of the time. I always carry a revolver when hiking and I even carry a snubbie in the woods when I’m on a heavily trafficked trail and concealment is desired, or when I’m backpacking and i want the lightest gun i can get.

Revolvers excel when there’s a chance of hand to hand grappling during the gun fight. They won’t malfunction when the muzzle is pressed up against something. When grappling you don’t have to worry about a slide cycling. Which is why they were used in Vietnam by the tunnel rats.

And there’s also the advantage of versatile ammo choices for different scenarios. You can carry a round of snake shot, two rounds of wadcutters for hunting small game, and three rounds of heavy bear defense rounds, all in the same six shot cylinder (i do this often when hiking).

But i will say this. In today’s day and age, when every new gun owner obsesses over how short the reset is on their latest polymer striker fired pistol, or whether the trigger breaks at 4 pounds or 6 pounds, and most shooters hardly talk about grip strength or how well they can hold the front sight through a full double action pull, a snubbie is no longer the common man’s gun. It’s now the gun for the seasoned and experienced shooter, who practices a lot and knows how to run a revolver trigger.

With that caveat, i really feel the snubbie revolver is a superior conceal carry choice versus a micro compact gun like the glock 43 or the LC9. I have an LCP2 which i pocket carry occasionally. But i take and trust my 442 much more often.


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[Alan0354]

Wow, that's one thing I never even thought of, when you are in very close quarter struggling situation, you push the front of the semi-auto against the body of a person, it will not work, that is definitely a possibility. This is where a snuby shines.

Also, now that I actually have the Glock in my hand and play with it. I am not comfortable having a round in the chamber and the gun is cocked. If I know I am going to get into fight, that's different, but not just carry for "just in case". A snuby can be fully loaded and just pull the trigger, not those strike fire auto. a DA/SA like my old Walther PPKS would be a lot better.

Oh, BTW, my Walther PPKS is a fixed barrel, I think it likely will work even you press the front of the gun to the body of the criminal as long as the slide don't get to push back. The barrel doesn't move like those lock breach ones. Also, I can load the chamber and put on the safety to decock the gun and leave the safety on, when use, just click the safety and pull the trigger. Even if you leave the safety off, it's full DA on the first round.

Speaking of the Walther PPKS, it's not much inferior than Ruger LC, one oz heavier, same 380, same 7+1. AND have a fixed barrel that has big advantage as described above.

[Alan0354]

This is really attractive:
https://ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html

13.5 oz, 38+P. I own two Rugers, they seems to have more robust construction than S&W. The J frame of S&W is scary thin around the area where the barrel screw onto the frame. For steel frame, I guess is OK, but for aluminum Air Weight, it's kind of scary. I have to look at the Ruger to determine.

[Radny97]

I’ve owned three LCRs, some charters, a few S&Ws, and two SP101s. All were plenty robust to handle the calibers they’re chambered in.
I’ve finally gravitated to the S&Ws and the SP101s for different roles.


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[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by Radny97

I’ve owned three LCRs, some charters, a few S&Ws, and two SP101s. All were plenty robust to handle the calibers they’re chambered in.
I’ve finally gravitated to the S&Ws and the SP101s for different roles.


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You have the S&W J frame snuby? Can you do me a favor and look at the frame where the barrel screw onto the frame and compare to the LCR. Look at the lower part where the frame is closest to the cylinder push rod. See which one has thicker metal on the frame. That's where the S&W J frame gets quite thin.

It would be really nice if you can take a picture and post it here. I never have my hands on a LCR, so I don't know how it looks. I sold my S&W 37 because I was not comfortable with it being aluminum.

Thanks

[Carl the Floor Walker]

I have been shooting Snubbies and Semi's for many years. And the more I do, the more I appreciate the Subbie as a EDC. And not only that, but find them the most fun gun to shoot. And because they are fun to shoot, I shoot them often and it is no surprise that you can become very proficient with them. And the ease of use makes them ideal for EDC.
I find myself carrying the Snubbie more often as time goes by. A very underrated firearm for EDC.

[SIGSHR]

The British stuck with the revolver in both World Wars and Korea, the Soviets kept their Nagants alongside their Tokarevs.
As far as tactics and training go, I think practicing one handed shooting with the snubby because the other arm is blocking or grappling with an assailant is called for.

[TunnelRat]

Imo, no.


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[pete2]

The only thing a semi does that better than a revolver is that it holds more ammo. Semis are usually not as accurate as a revolver, they are not as reliable as a revolver, they don't draw from a pocket as well as a revolver, in the case of larger guns they are not as powerful except for the giant ones. Generally 16 rounds trumps 6 in today's spray n pray world.
It's not that a revolver doesn't fail, it just doesn't fail near as often as a semi. I shoot both a lot and I do have more stoppages with semi.

[CDW4ME]

A snub is capacity deficient.
An attacker(s) may be hard to stop, example:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vi...e-hes-stopped/

12 hits before incapacitation.
Hard to stop could happen anywhere, which is why a Glock 26, Shield, or 1911 (examples) + spare mag is a good desirable minimum everywhere.

A 7 shot 380 is "better than nothing" but that is not a criteria we use by choice to pick a gun to defend life. (If in doubt refer to video again)

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by CDW4ME

A snub is capacity deficient.
An attacker(s) may be hard to stop, example:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vi...e-hes-stopped/

12 hits before incapacitation.
Hard to stop could happen anywhere, which is why a Glock 26, Shield, or 1911 (examples) + spare mag is a good desirable minimum everywhere.

A 7 shot 380 is "better than nothing" but that is not a criteria we use by choice to pick a gun to defend life. (If in doubt refer to video again)

Remember I am comparing the snubies with the semi of the same weight, 5 rounds and 17 rounds is a big difference, BUT fair comparison by weight and size, you are comparing 5 rounds to 7 rounds. You trade reliability with 2 more rounds.

Semi are more reliable if it is big, for that small a size, it's questionable. There are physics in this, you need the weight ( the initia) to cycle the gun in semi, if you have less weight, you put heavier spring and reliability goes down hill. So reliability is day and night difference when comparing between revolvers and semi in 15 to 16oz category.

[ThomasT]

Find a copy of the book by Ed Lovett called "The Snubby Revolver" and after you read it you will appreciate the snub even more. One guy over at THR forum said he bud called his snub his "Roving gun". I liked that term.

And if you want to compare handgun sizes have a look at this site. I have used it to help me decide if a gun will fit the criteria I am interested in. The only problem with this site is that they don't have a lot of revolvers in their data base.

https://www.handgunhero.com/

[dahermit]

Originally Posted by CDW4ME

A snub is capacity deficient.
An attacker(s) may be hard to stop, example:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vi...e-hes-stopped/

12 hits before incapacitation.
Hard to stop could happen anywhere, which is why a Glock 26, Shield, or 1911 (examples) + spare mag is a good desirable minimum everywhere.

A 7 shot 380 is "better than nothing" but that is not a criteria we use by choice to pick a gun to defend life. (If in doubt refer to video again)

How many "stops" have been made with one shot compared to twelve shots? Citing one extreme case does not prove anything.

[Alan0354]

As I mentioned in my first post, every size gun has it's purpose, you have big semi that can carry 17 rounds if you are preparing for conflict like going out in a riot or dangerous area. Then you have snubies and 7 rounds 9mm or 380 that you want to carry a lot and shoot a little, those that actually have stopping power in small package sacrificing number of rounds and still a little bulky, but manageable.

Then you have the mouse gun for hot weather where you wear shorts and T shirt. You have nowhere to hide by a mouse gun. That, I have two of the Freedom Arms 4 shot 22magnum. Don't laugh, it's better than a knife.

This thread, I specifically limiting to the middle category, moderate concealable, real stopping power. you are talking about 38+P and 9mm. 380 is a little on the low side. If you compare 38+P to 9mm only, snubies win big with weight and bulk.

Look at the picture of my first post comparing the thickness. You can shave off the butt of the snuby and make it even more concealable as shown. remember, the gun is 'L' shape, it's the butt that make it hard to conceal, thinning the butt makes a day and night difference. It makes it a little harder to grab, but get over it, practice and you get use to it.

[jmr40]

you cannot beat the reliability of a revolver. Revolvers don't jam.....PERIOD.

Over the years I've had more revolvers malfunction than semi-auto's. Revolvers have many of their moving parts outside the frame susceptible to damage, dirt and debris. And if a revolver does malfunction it isn't back in the game again until it is repaired requiring the use of tools.

If a semi-auto goes down it is almost always an ammo failure that can be cleared and have the gun back in action in seconds. Most moving parts are inside the guns frame protected from damage and dirt. This is especially true with striker fired guns.

Size wise the G26 isn't a fair comparison. Put a J frame next to a 10 shot Sig 365, Glock 43, or a Ruger LC9s. Power wise 9mm+p is right on the heels of 357 mag loads with much more manageable recoil than 38+p when fired from a J frame.

I still like and own revolvers, but the compact semi's have outclassed small revolvers for quite some time. Where revolvers have their place is in larger framed, longer barreled guns shooting more potent loads. That is where you start doing something you can't do well with semi's.