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Old October 25, 2019, 10:17 PM   #76
shurshot
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USNRET93 "BUT..ya know, it's wonderful to look at, hold and admire any handgun but the real pleasure of owning any gun, IMHO, is shooting it. Including this Colt, which I think would be a blast to shoot.."

You bring up a very valid point!
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Old October 26, 2019, 08:44 AM   #77
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I'm in Maine and almost all of my purchases come though a friend who is an FFL. However, I'd really like to know who this dealer is that you went through so that I an avoid them, or at least know that I'd have to be very cautious when dealing with them.
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Old October 26, 2019, 11:41 AM   #78
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They are located in Southern Maine (which is turning into northern Massachusetts!), not Downeast, a good 3 hours away from your location.
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Old October 26, 2019, 11:54 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reloadron
When I handled transfers similar to what you described I never even opened the box. Box would come off the UPS truck, I sign for box and had a shelf devoted to such boxes. I would call the customer, identify myself and just say your package is here. I would never ever open the box. I do a transfer and that's it. My liability ends when you take the still sealed box from my paws. This way any issues remain between you and the seller or the carrier but not me. Safety Checks is a new one on me. All I am doing is a transfer which consist of exactly what the name implies.
No.
I call BS.

Even if not BS, and you actually did such, you violated Federal law by not verifying the serial number of the firearm(s) being transferred.

But back to the BS side...
Shipping boxes, no matter who shipped them, almost NEVER have anything but the buyer's name on the label (if that). You can't get their contact information without opening the package. You can't get a serial number without opening the package.

You got ya some x-ray specs there? Used a bore scope? Called every "Jacob Adler" in the phone book until one said, "Um ... uh... sure, that's my gun..." ...?
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Old October 26, 2019, 12:34 PM   #80
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FrankenMauser
Quote:
No.
I call BS.

Even if not BS, and you actually did such, you violated Federal law by not verifying the serial number of the firearm(s) being transferred.

But back to the BS side...
Shipping boxes, no matter who shipped them, almost NEVER have anything but the buyer's name on the label (if that). You can't get their contact information without opening the package. You can't get a serial number without opening the package.

You got ya some x-ray specs there? Used a bore scope? Called every "Jacob Adler" in the phone book until one said, "Um ... uh... sure, that's my gun..." ...?
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I said I let the customer open the box. That done the gun went on the book. Sheese is that too complicated. Box comes in, they were normally UPS. Unless I saw any outward signs of damage I called the guy who was having the gun shipped. They got to open the box and once they opened the box the gun went on the book. The gun, other than recording in my log book was not mine to handle. The customer I was doing the transfer for completed the 4473 and left with their gun. This was early/mid 90s. How I handled a transfer was just that way and yes, of course the gun went on the book. Get a clue before you cry BS when someone says something. The dealer is handling a transfer and that is all the dealer is doing. Gun goes in book logged in and gun goes out, just about that quickly.

Ron
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Old October 26, 2019, 01:01 PM   #81
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RELOADRON,

The procedure you just described, is EXACTLY how my previous FFL did things. But he closed shop a couple years ago, made more money as a heavy equipment mechanic, especially on OT, and he closed up, so I switched to this bigger outfit. Sure wish he was still around.

Case update; No check in the mail today...

Last edited by shurshot; October 26, 2019 at 01:06 PM.
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Old October 26, 2019, 01:24 PM   #82
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Quote:
Reloadron
Quote:
FrankenMauser
Quote:
No.
I call BS.

Even if not BS, and you actually did such, you violated Federal law by not verifying the serial number of the firearm(s) being transferred.

But back to the BS side...
Shipping boxes, no matter who shipped them, almost NEVER have anything but the buyer's name on the label (if that). You can't get their contact information without opening the package. You can't get a serial number without opening the package.

You got ya some x-ray specs there? Used a bore scope? Called every "Jacob Adler" in the phone book until one said, "Um ... uh... sure, that's my gun..." ...?
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I said I let the customer open the box. That done the gun went on the book. Sheese is that too complicated. Box comes in, they were normally UPS. Unless I saw any outward signs of damage I called the guy who was having the gun shipped. They got to open the box and once they opened the box the gun went on the book. The gun, other than recording in my log book was not mine to handle. The customer I was doing the transfer for completed the 4473 and left with their gun. This was early/mid 90s. How I handled a transfer was just that way and yes, of course the gun went on the book. Get a clue before you cry BS when someone says something. The dealer is handling a transfer and that is all the dealer is doing. Gun goes in book logged in and gun goes out, just about that quickly.
1. I agree, RARELY is the buyer/transferees name on the outside of the box.
2. ATF regulations require you to log that firearm into your bound book by close of business the next day.
3. If the buyers name is not on the outside......how do you know who to call and come open the box?
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Old October 27, 2019, 08:36 AM   #83
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Quote:
1. I agree, RARELY is the buyer/transferees name on the outside of the box.
2. ATF regulations require you to log that firearm into your bound book by close of business the next day.
3. If the buyers name is not on the outside......how do you know who to call and come open the box?
I handled maybe a few transfers a month. During those early to mid 90s at $10 and for regulars who spent money with us I did many transfers free. Knowing who a gun was for was not much of a problem. I guess I could always look at the label and see who the sender was which would also give me a good idea of who the gun was for. When you are only running 2 or 3 per month it was pretty simple.

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Old October 27, 2019, 09:01 AM   #84
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Quote:
If the buyers name is not on the outside......how do you know who to call and come open the box?
Heck, half the time I was lucky if the buyer's contact information was included at all. Bonus points if the sender didn't even bother to send an FFL or a copy of his driver's license. At any given time, I had a cabinet with several "mystery guns."

I got really tired of buyers yelling at me because I couldn't transfer the gun to them because I couldn't log it into my books. This, folks, is why we charge for transfers.
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Old October 28, 2019, 07:58 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reloadron View Post
I handled maybe a few transfers a month. During those early to mid 90s at $10 and for regulars who spent money with us I did many transfers free. Knowing who a gun was for was not much of a problem. I guess I could always look at the label and see who the sender was which would also give me a good idea of who the gun was for. When you are only running 2 or 3 per month it was pretty simple.

Ron
I've had only 3 guns transferred to a FFL..and the FFL gent had to send his FFL info to the seller..so he knew it was coming cuz I contacted the FFL first..Isn't that standard? The buyer contacts the FFL, the FFL sends a copy of his license to the seller and then it's shipped?
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Old October 28, 2019, 09:41 AM   #86
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Quote:
USNRet93

I've had only 3 guns transferred to a FFL..and the FFL gent had to send his FFL info to the seller..so he knew it was coming cuz I contacted the FFL first..Isn't that standard? The buyer contacts the FFL, the FFL sends a copy of his license to the seller and then it's shipped?
No.
Only licensed dealers/manufacturers are required to have a copy of the receiving dealers before shipping a firearm.

You (a nonlicensee) are not required to have a copy of the FFL, just required to ship to an FFL when shipping interstate.
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Old October 28, 2019, 05:34 PM   #87
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Quote:
I've had only 3 guns transferred to a FFL..and the FFL gent had to send his FFL info to the seller..so he knew it was coming cuz I contacted the FFL first..Isn't that standard? The buyer contacts the FFL, the FFL sends a copy of his license to the seller and then it's shipped?
Quote:
No.
Only licensed dealers/manufacturers are required to have a copy of the receiving dealers before shipping a firearm.

You (a nonlicensee) are not required to have a copy of the FFL, just required to ship to an FFL when shipping interstate.
I believe you are both saying the same thing. Just a matter of understanding the wording. You are buying a gun and want me to handle the transfer. I send the shipper/seller a copy of my FFL. The gun's disposition in their book will reflect it was sent to me and they now have my FFL on file. They send me the gun and I transfer the gun to you after you complete the NICS check which did not exist when I was doing this stuff and complete the Form 4473 which as I recall changed 3X during the Clinton Administration. No, the non-FFL buyer has nothing to do with the FFL exchange process.

Anyway none of this has much anything to do with the original post. Should the receiving FFL point have handled the gun other than reading the serial number and placing the gun on their log book? I say no simply to avoid stuff like claimed by the original thread starter.

Ron
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Old October 29, 2019, 08:50 AM   #88
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Reloadron, that's how I do my transfers now.
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Old October 30, 2019, 12:50 PM   #89
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10/30/19 update; Crickets chirping, cobwebs on mailbox...
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Old November 2, 2019, 08:50 PM   #90
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Having the cylinder reblued, even by Colt could bring additional problems. I had Colt refurbish one of my SAA’s including case colors, the grip frame came back an odd color which quickly turned to plumb. Colt took the frame back and blued it once again ( it took them seven months to do it) however, within a month the plumb was returning so I now have a odd looking pistol. I would not return it another time.
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Old November 3, 2019, 12:43 AM   #91
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So perhaps USNRET93 is right and I should just plan on making this one a shooter.
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Old November 3, 2019, 07:35 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shurshot View Post
So perhaps USNRET93 is right and I should just plan on making this one a shooter.
Great plan. Just got my oldest a Uberti Cattleman, 45LC, what a hoot to shoot!!
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Old November 3, 2019, 09:23 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shurshot
So perhaps USNRET93 is right and I should just plan on making this one a shooter.
Or perhaps USNRet93 is wrong and you don't need to make it a shooter.

You don't need to decide right now, today, within the next 30 seconds. Why not wait, see what comes back from Colt, let the dust settle, and then decide? You can always decide later if you want to shoot it. Once you shoot it, you can't decide not to shoot it.
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Old November 3, 2019, 06:07 PM   #94
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Another valid point. May be quite a few months before I get it back. Plenty of time.
Stag grips would sure be nice though.
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Old November 3, 2019, 08:15 PM   #95
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Some of you have never handled receiving in a small business. Box comes in, look at the return address, and know who it was shipped for. Not complicated and entirely possible to not open a box until the person it was intended for gets there. Also eliminates the possibility a clerk plays with the firearm. Open in front of the buyer, verify serial numbers, record and finish paperwork. Strictly speaking a gun store never owns the firearm that is the subject of the transfer as the transaction is between the buyer and seller unless the FFL puts out money. No responsibility for the safety of the firearm in question only for the paperwork.
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Old November 3, 2019, 09:09 PM   #96
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Quote:
Quote:
If the buyers name is not on the outside......how do you know who to call and come open the box?
Heck, half the time I was lucky if the buyer's contact information was included at all. Bonus points if the sender didn't even bother to send an FFL or a copy of his driver's license. At any given time, I had a cabinet with several "mystery guns."
When I was helping a friend sell and ship some guns he inherited, I always addressed the box to the buyer's name c/o the FFL receiver's name and tried to leave anything gun-related out of it (like Joe's Gun Shop). That way, the receiving FFL has the recipient's name
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Old November 4, 2019, 08:34 AM   #97
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"Some of you have never handled receiving in a small business. Box comes in, look at the return address, and know who it was shipped for. Not complicated and entirely possible to not open a box until the person it was intended for gets there. Also eliminates the possibility a clerk plays with the firearm. Open in front of the buyer, verify serial numbers, record and finish paperwork. Strictly speaking a gun store never owns the firearm that is the subject of the transfer as the transaction is between the buyer and seller unless the FFL puts out money. No responsibility for the safety of the firearm in question only for the paperwork."

Sounds like you don't either when it comes to firearms. I can't count how many times we would get stuff with no info. How do you contact the owner? What if you do get hold of them & they can't come in for weeks,how are you going to log the gun in?
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Old November 4, 2019, 12:31 PM   #98
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Quote:
Lohman446 Some of you have never handled receiving in a small business. Box comes in, look at the return address, and know who it was shipped for.
Well, I do.
I receive 150-200 firearms a month for transfer. Knowing the transferee by reading the senders name? You have to be kidding.

I take it your transfer business numbers in the single digits?


Quote:
Not complicated and entirely possible to not open a box until the person it was intended for gets there.
Federal law/ATF regs......ever read them? You should.
A licensee has until close of business the next day to log that firearm unto his books.




Quote:
Also eliminates the possibility a clerk plays with the firearm.
As does proper training of staff.



Quote:
Open in front of the buyer, verify serial numbers, record and finish paperwork. Strictly speaking a gun store never owns the firearm that is the subject of the transfer as the transaction is between the buyer and seller unless the FFL puts out money.
While the licensee does not own the firearm, he does assume responsibility for its safekeeping.

Quote:
No responsibility for the safety of the firearm in question only for the paperwork.
Really? So the dealer wouldn't bear any legal liability for handing a cocked and loaded firearm to the transferee? I received a Bersa .380 a few years ago cocked with a live round in the chamber.....you are telling us I would have born no responsibility for the safety of my customer? That's absolute nonsense.
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Last edited by dogtown tom; November 4, 2019 at 12:42 PM.
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Old November 4, 2019, 12:39 PM   #99
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Quote:
FITASC When I was helping a friend sell and ship some guns he inherited, I always addressed the box to the buyer's name c/o the FFL receiver's name and tried to leave anything gun-related out of it (like Joe's Gun Shop). That way, the receiving FFL has the recipient's name
Please don't do that.
The package should only show the FFLs name on the shipping label.
Putting:
Bob Public
c/o Hart Sports
1234 Dealer Dr
Plano, TX 75023

Means UPS/FedEx/USPS sees "Bob Public" as the addressee and will hand him the firearm.

I've had it happen once. FedEx attempted delivery and I wasn't home. Since the buyer had tracking info he knew it was being held at the Plano FedEx facility and went down, showed his drivers license and walked out with his gun. He brought it to me the next day.

The buyers name and contact info can be placed inside with the gun or written on the outside of the box if desired....just don't put it on the label.
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Old November 4, 2019, 01:22 PM   #100
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When I ship I put my contact info inside the box as well as on masking tape looped through the trigger guard. It costs nothing but 30 seconds of time. All loose parts put in zip loc bags with my contact info. Gunsmiths have only thanked me for being too organized.
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