Turning a 9mm 1911 to at 38 super

[Gulfcowboy]

I've always wanted to give 38 super a try. The prices on most of the 38 supers I find are around two thousand dollars. I've been reading that it might be possible to buy a 9mm 1911 and convert it to shoot 38 super. I've found a great rock island 1911 in 9mm for a good price. Would it be worth it to purchase the ria in 9mm and convert it to 38 super??

[74A95]

Or buy a RIA in 38 Super?

You can certainly convert a 9mm 1911 into 38 Super if you like.

[NH15-45]

It's easier to turn a 10mm into 38 Super due to the case rim diameter

[74A95]

Originally Posted by NH15-45

It's easier to turn a 10mm into 38 Super due to the case rim diameter

Good point to make - if using a 9mm gun you have to make sure the cut in the breech is wide enough to allow a conventional semi-rimmed 38 Super to fit.

An alternate fix is to use rimless 38 Super Comp brass- easy to do if you reload.

[44 AMP]

"Worth it" is a judgement call, I would assume you would consider it worth it if you conversion cost less than a .38 Super.

Sadly, I have no clue about the costs. But I do know some of the questions you should get answered before you open your wallet.

Obviously you'll need .38Super barrel and magazine(s), but what else, if anything?

Extractor, possibly, the Super is a bit larger diameter at the rim than 9mm Luger, and I don't know if the 9mm extractor will work, can be made to work, or will need to be replaced. And, that goes for the slide, as well. I have no idea if/how the Rock Island slide may differ from the standard Colt Govt model specs. But if it does, does it differ enough that it will work or could be made to work with the Super case? Or will it need to be replaced with a .38 Super slide??

In short, will you wind up having to replace the entire top of the pistol, or not? I don't know, but I think it is something you need to find out, before you start buying parts, including the base gun you intend to convert.

Certainly the conversion is possible, but how much work and cost it will be, compared to just buying a .38 Super pistol depends on quite I few factors.

Good luck, I hope things work out the way you want.

[Gulfcowboy]

Thank you for all the replies gentlemen. Let me fold in another question. For anyone who has experience with the 38 super. How do you like it? Have you used it for hunting purposes?

[Jim Watson]

Tisas will sell you a combination gun 9mm and .38 Super, but you have to like shiny, available only in polished chrome.

[jcj54]

The Colt 1911A1 Government models in 9mm and .38 Super have exactly 3 differnces:
the magazine, the barrel, and the ejector. The only difference in the slides is the roll mark designating the caliber. The breech faces are identical.
The 9mm magazine has a spacer in the back for the shorter cartridge.
The ejector is slightly shorter due to the longer cartridge length.
And the barrel of course is chambered for .38 Super.
So a 9mm Rock Island Armory can be converted by changing barrel and ejector and magazine.

[74A95]

Originally Posted by Gulfcowboy

Thank you for all the replies gentlemen. Let me fold in another question. For anyone who has experience with the 38 super. How do you like it? Have you used it for hunting purposes?

I haven't used it for hunting. But otherwise it's my favorite semi-auto round (I reload).

The 38 Super is a very versatile round, more so if you reload. Here's a couple of articles you might find of interest.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/editori...38-super/99160
http://www.shootingtimes.com/editori...r-loads/326242

[74A95]

Originally Posted by jcj54

So a 9mm Rock Island Armory can be converted by changing barrel and ejector and magazine.

If the breechface is wide enough for a 38 Super rim. Most are but you never know.

[44caliberkid]

A Rock Island 38 Super is $400 - $500, just buy one of those.

[Brian48]

I have a friend who used to own a full-size Colt in 9mm. I believe all he did to convert the gun to 38super was a barrel swap and the appropriate mags. It's been a while so my memory may be hazy, but as I recall, it wasn't much of a change.

[rock185]

Gulfcowboy, Usually pretty simple. I've not used a Rock Island, but have done a few 9mm/38S conversions on Kimbers and Colts. Most recently, a Kimber 38S with a 9mm conversion, and a Colt GCNM 9mm with a .38 Super conversion. The Kimber only required a 9mm barrel and magazine. Didn't have to change or tweak extractor, ejector, recoil spring or anything else. The Kimber functions reliably with 9mm, 38S, .38 Super Comp, ,38 TJ and 9X23 Win. BTW, The 9mm and .38 Super Kimbers use the .40/10mm breech face.

After a few hundred factory rounds of factory 9mm, my new Gold Cup would not extract reliably, so I installed an Ed Brown extractor. The Colt required a .38S barrel and magazine, and I'm using the unmodified or adjusted Ed Brown extractor. . The breech face was wide enough. Colt no longer uses that super long ejector in the 9mm, so I didn't have to shorten or replace that. The Colt is also reliable with factory 9mm and 38S ammo, along with reloads in the above mentioned brass..

As to how I like the .38 Super, I've shot and reloaded for the Super since the '70s, so I guess I kinda like it Some factory 9mm exceeds some factory .38S ballistics. So be it. In handloading, loading to the same pressures the Super exceeds what is safely possible with the 9MM. IMHO, where the Super pulls away significantly from the 9 is with the heavier 147 grain, etc. bullets. With the 147 grain in the Super, 1250-1300 FPS is easily achieved in a 5" barrel without any drama..

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Gulfcowboy

Thank you for all the replies gentlemen. Let me fold in another question. For anyone who has experience with the 38 super. How do you like it? Have you used it for hunting purposes?

I love .38 Super. No experience with handgun hunting, though.

[44 AMP]

The .38 Super shares the same drawbacks for hunting that most service class semi auto rounds do. The power is marginal for big game (not enough in many states) and the common bullets aren't well suited for game, large or small.

Absolutely can be used where permitted, and will be effective if the shooter is, but not as efficient as other things.

Frequently service class guns lack the fine accuracy to make good small game guns, and bullets meant to expand in people rarely do in small game, and the bullets shaped for feeding in a semi auto lack the SWC shoulder (and often the flat nose) common to revolver rounds.

also, particular to the .38 Super is that older guns were chambered to headspace on the case rim, and are often not as accurate as newer guns chambered to headspace on the case mouth.

In the early 70s, when I was learning pistols, Dad had a Colt Govt model in .38 Super that I often got to use, provided I used my own ammo. Guess who learned to load the Super?

I was loading Hornady 115gr JHP at a time when the only factory load was the 130gr FMJ. Potted the odd squirrel or two, and a coon and a skunk, if I remember right, can't say how the bullets behaved, never recovered any, but they did work. Never considered it for deer, though it was legal where I lived. There just wasn't a good "deer bullet" to run in the Super (or the 9mm Luger).

Probably something decent or maybe even good as a deer bullet today, but I haven't looked, I have better guns for that, or for small game these days.

[DT Guy]

If you're willing to deal with limited ammo availability (or are a reloader) I'd much rather convert a 9MM 1911 to 9x23. With Winchester factory ammo (all that's generally, or at least occasionally, available) it's an absolute scorcher.

Changing the barrel and recoil spring back to 9MM is simple, and gives you access to cheap ammo for plinking.

Larry

[Crankylove]

I wanted a .38 super, couldn’t find one local, except the RIA G.I. Model, which didn’t work, cause I wanted adjustable sights.

Picked up a Rock Island 5” 9mm, and found a place selling RIA “factory overrun” .38 Super barrels online.

About 20 minutes with a file to fit the barrel, a new recoil spring, and a couple mags is all it took. 9mm breach face and extractor work just fine for me (maybe I just got lucky?).

[rc]

It is entirely feasible but not all 38 supers are $2000. Wanting a 38 super in California I had to buy what was available on our approved list. I got the Kimber Pro Carry II HD. Really nice handling gun but ammo is not cheap so I reload for it. You can also buy a barrel for a 9mm or 10mm 1911 and may have to adjust the extractor. One thing to realize is the conversion is not as straight forward as a Glock. You need to figure out what kind of frame cut you have and what barrel profile you need. Kimbers use a Wilson/Nowlan cut for a ramped barrel. The 4 inch guns use a bull barrel. There is also a Remington/Para Cut and a some are not ramped. Then you will have to make sure your link height is good as well as the fit of the hood. Some barrels and guns will be a drop in match, others may not be.

[RickB]

Most 1911 manufacturers "share" breechface dimensions among multiple calibers; some may use the same one for .40/9/Super.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by RickB

Most 1911 manufacturers "share" breechface dimensions among multiple calibers; some may use the same one for .40/9/Super.

Correct -- and each manufacturer is different.

Caspian Arms uses three breechface cuts in their slides:

• 9mm/.38 Super
• 10mm/.40 S&W
• .45 ACP

Para-Ordnance only used two breechface cuts:

• 9mm/.38 Super/10mm/.40 S&W
• .45 ACP

I had my doubts, but a friend owns a Para P18.9. He tested it and found that a .40 S&W case would fit into his slide. I then bought a Para-Ordnance .40 S&W slide and used it to build a 9mm Officers-size pistol.

[RickB]

And Colt, at one time, used caliber-specific breechfaces, but don't know if that's still the case.

[74A95]

My Para P18-9 9mm slide will not accept a 40/10mm case. So not all paras are cut the same.

[stagpanther]

My Colt in 38 super cost under 1K NIB--but that was a while ago though not longer than 10 years ago. I think 38 super is great cartridge for the 1911. Colt isn't necessarily the best 1911 around--but I would definitely be willing to pay a premium to have one over an RIA.

[rc]

For newbies following this thread...... the 9mm Luger while the most popular centerfire handgun cartridge on the planet, is not the most powerful defensive caliber by any means. It is basically the same diameter as a 38 special, 357 mag etc within 1 or 2 thousandths of an inch. 0.355 vs, 0.356 vs, 0.357 or even 0.358. Most 9mm and 38 super ammo is commonly loaded with 0.355 or 0.356 bullets while most 357 mag ammo is loaded with 0.357 bullets. But if the chamber is big enough you can load 38 super with 0.357 bullets you would also load in your 357 mag revolver given they have a bullet profile that will feed in a semi auto. I've personally launched 158 grain SWC bullets from a 9mm S&W that would chamber and feed them. I just used a very low powder charge since a lot of the volume of the case was taken up by the bullet. The difference in case length between 9mm luger and 38 super is about 4 millimeter. (9x19 vs 9x23) The 38 super and the Spanish 9mm Largo cartridge are but for rim diameter about identical in length, dimensions and standard commercial loadings due to the prevalence of old weak guns that will chamber these rounds. With the extra powder capacity of the 38 super, and strength of the modern 1911 design, the 38 super can drive bullets much faster than the 9mm luger in strong guns. While 1250 fps would be pushing it for a 9mm luger with 115 grain bullets, 1450 fps would be entirely reasonable with careful selection of bullet and powder from a 5 inch 1911 pistol. While the 357 Sig reaches these speeds more commonly with factory ammo from a 4 inch barrel, the 38 super is not much different ballistically when hand loaded to full potential and without the commonly experienced problem of bullet set back like those reloading 357 Sig who purchase specially designed bullets with the correct profile to avoid bullet set back under recoil.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editor...38-super/99160

Three advantages of the 38 super over 45 ACP in the defensive 1911 are reduced muzzle flip, increased barrier penetration and increased magazine capacity. My Kimber Pro Carry HD in 38 super does not twist uncomfortably in the hand when shooting full power ammo like my Colt Commander in 45 ACP.

Lastly, the 38 super generally has less muzzle blast than a 357 mag and accuracy and reliability can be excellent from a single stack 1911 pistol. While the 38 super is not for everyone or even the guy with just one hand gun, it is a sweet shooting and nostalgic cartridge tracing its roots back to the first Colt 1900 Automatic pistol.

[44 AMP]

In 1900, Browning introduced the .38 auto (.38 ACP), firing a 130gr bullet at a listed 1040fps.

In 1902 Luger introduced the 9mm Parabellum, firing a 124gr bullet at a listed 1050fps.

The 9mm Largo showed up about 1910 and fired a 125gr bullet at a listed 1120fps.

Sometime shortly before WWI Germany adopted a 115gr 9mm Parabellum load at a listed 1150fps.

In 1929 a high pressure version of the .38ACP was created to run in the Colt Govt Model pistol. This round became known as the .38 Super, and fired a 130gr bullet at a listed 1275fps.

Not counting modern +p and +p+ loadings, the .38 Super has always been loaded faster than the 9mm Luger.

..the commonly experienced problem of bullet set back like those reloading 357 Sig who purchase specially designed bullets with the correct profile to avoid bullet set back under recoil.

This part has me a bit confused, as I have never heard of bullet setback under recoil being a problem with the .357 Sig, or any other standard pistol round. It is a recognized issue with heavy recoiling rifles (like .458 mag) but not in pistols. Setback under recoil is caused by the front wall of the magazine striking the bullet due to heavy recoil. Pistols simply don't have that much recoil energy to set the bullets back, UNLESS the ammo is not properly made.

Bullet setback during FEEDING is a possible issue, but again, only if the ammo is not properly made.