Primer Whiny Rant - Page 2

medalguy · June 6, 2010, 11:03 PM

I don't think the war has much to do with the supply of primers. Lake City has its own primer plant. They don't use any commercial primers made by CCI or Federal. The panic buying by everyone has caused the shortage.

I was at a gun show in Albuquerque this weekend, and there was a dealer set up directly across the aisle from my table. He was offering primers, most manufacturers, for a flat $40 per K. I watched pretty close as it was a very slow show, and I didn't see him sell many or any primers. There was another guy there with some Remington primers for $35 and I don't think he sold many either. I believe most people have stocked up for the time being. I know I certainly have. Last year, I was placing orders with several distributors for primers every couple of months, asking them to backorder if out of stock, and I got fairly regular shipments of primers all year. I now have sufficient primers to last me several years so I'm going to wait and see if prices drop. I don't believe they will, at least not below published retail prices.

**Mike Irwin** · June 7, 2010, 12:23 AM

"Will they cone back down? Maybe, but doubtful. I have been loading for a mere 30 years or so, so I do not have the data like some folks do, but I remember buying primers locally at the drug store for $2/100 - over 20 years ago. Now they seem to be about $24/100 or maybe a little more - but factoring in 30 years of inflation, it isn't so bad."

Maybe the price won't come back down. But we have recent history to tell us that that possibility certainly exists.

In the early 1990s the price of primers shot up and their availability dropped to levels close to what we recently saw.

Prices were better than $35 per K.

Back then people were saying that that was the new set price, that we'd never see pre-1991 prices again.

We didn't. At least until about 1997. By then I was feeling badly abused if I had to pay more than $12 per K, and I frequently found them for less than that.

Primers are, like anything else, a commodity whose price rises and falls with their availability and the desire people have for them. At some point desire and supply are going to cross back to more normal levels, and when that happens, Economics of Capitalism 101 tells us that the price will go down.

"I don't think the war has much to do with the supply of primers. Lake City has its own primer plant. They don't use any commercial primers made by CCI or Federal. The panic buying by everyone has caused the shortage."

Problem is, Lake City hasn't been able to fulfill military demand for ammunition recently. The civilian market has had to fulfill huge orders for .223 and 9mm ammunition. Supplying ammunition to the government requires converting lines that supplied the civilian market, using components that were normally used in civilian ammunition supplies.

I don't know if CCI or Federal have been supplying ammunition to the government, but I do know that both Winchester and Remington have supplied huge quantities to the Government.

Take those two suppliers out of the picture, and CCI and Federal aren't able to fill that gap.

Scorch · June 7, 2010, 12:35 AM

Quote:

I don't know if CCI or Federal have been supplying ammunition to the government, but I do know that both Winchester and Remington have supplied huge quantities to the Government

Both CCI and Federal Cartridge are owned by ATK, who now operate the Lake City arsenal and several others.

Quote:

They don't use any commercial primers made by CCI or Federal.

True, but the primers they do use are made on the production lines that produce the primers you and I would be buying if the lines were producing commercial primers instead of military components.

**Mike Irwin** · June 7, 2010, 01:02 AM

Well then there you have it.

Primers that once were destined for commercial consumption are being diverted to the military.

Anyone have a problem with that?

mtnbkr · June 7, 2010, 05:52 AM

FWIW, several dealers at the gun show I attended yesterday had primers for $30/1000. Not just one or two boxes either, but stacks. I've been seeing them for $34/1000 at stores (some, not all).

Not as good as the $20-$25/1000 I was paying a couple years ago, but much better than the $50+/1000 I saw this time last year.

Chris

James R. Burke · June 7, 2010, 06:34 PM

When the primer thing started I looked in the small shops. I was lucky, and got what I needed before it got real bad. I made sure to get enough but did not over do it. When I found some and new someone was looking I would give them a call, and get them if they wanted them.

**Shane Tuttle** · June 7, 2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Well then there you have it.
Primers that once were destined for commercial consumption are being diverted to the military.
Anyone have a problem with that?

Crickets are in my backgound at the moment...

Uncle Buck · June 8, 2010, 09:25 AM

It was funny, when I started reloading, I found primers cheaper at the gun shows than I did in the stores. Then when the stores started getting their stock levels back up, they became cheaper in the stores.

I am wondering how long before these gun show folks get tired of hauling their products around with-out selling them and then start to discount them?

I think eventually they will start offering them for less than the stores do, but it may take awhile.

mrawesome22 · June 8, 2010, 06:19 PM

We're all mad about it.

Anyone disagree?

Maybe that's the next million dollar idea. A build your own primers setup...

Doodlebugger45 · June 8, 2010, 07:05 PM

Well, primers are still the cheapest of all components in my reloads. If I pay $32/1000, that means the primer cost me 3.2 cents. If I were to find some for $25/1000 it cost me 2.5 cents per round. Compared to the cost of brass, bullets, or powder, that 0.7 cents per round is nothing. But then I don't shoot the autos, so I don't go through as many as some folks do.

I was talking to the owner of one gun store around here last week. We were talking about primers in particular. Sure, he has a decent supply on the shelf for now. A year ago he typically had none at all. But he said they are STILL not exactly plentiful. He said he got in 50,000 of them about 3 months ago and has about half of that left now. In the meantime, he has had standing orders to his wholesalers and has received absolutely nothing for primers. One of his wholesalers predicted that it's going to take quite a bit longer until everyone has truly plentiful stocks again. It might get worse again before it gets better.

June 7, 2010, 12:23 AM	#27
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"Will they cone back down? Maybe, but doubtful. I have been loading for a mere 30 years or so, so I do not have the data like some folks do, but I remember buying primers locally at the drug store for $2/100 - over 20 years ago. Now they seem to be about $24/100 or maybe a little more - but factoring in 30 years of inflation, it isn't so bad." Maybe the price won't come back down. But we have recent history to tell us that that possibility certainly exists. In the early 1990s the price of primers shot up and their availability dropped to levels close to what we recently saw. Prices were better than $35 per K. Back then people were saying that that was the new set price, that we'd never see pre-1991 prices again. We didn't. At least until about 1997. By then I was feeling badly abused if I had to pay more than $12 per K, and I frequently found them for less than that. Primers are, like anything else, a commodity whose price rises and falls with their availability and the desire people have for them. At some point desire and supply are going to cross back to more normal levels, and when that happens, Economics of Capitalism 101 tells us that the price will go down. "I don't think the war has much to do with the supply of primers. Lake City has its own primer plant. They don't use any commercial primers made by CCI or Federal. The panic buying by everyone has caused the shortage." Problem is, Lake City hasn't been able to fulfill military demand for ammunition recently. The civilian market has had to fulfill huge orders for .223 and 9mm ammunition. Supplying ammunition to the government requires converting lines that supplied the civilian market, using components that were normally used in civilian ammunition supplies. I don't know if CCI or Federal have been supplying ammunition to the government, but I do know that both Winchester and Remington have supplied huge quantities to the Government. Take those two suppliers out of the picture, and CCI and Federal aren't able to fill that gap. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 7, 2010, 01:02 AM	#29
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Well then there you have it. Primers that once were destined for commercial consumption are being diverted to the military. Anyone have a problem with that? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 8, 2010, 09:25 AM	#33
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	It was funny, when I started reloading, I found primers cheaper at the gun shows than I did in the stores. Then when the stores started getting their stock levels back up, they became cheaper in the stores. I am wondering how long before these gun show folks get tired of hauling their products around with-out selling them and then start to discount them? I think eventually they will start offering them for less than the stores do, but it may take awhile. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

June 6, 2010, 11:03 PM	#26
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	I don't think the war has much to do with the supply of primers. Lake City has its own primer plant. They don't use any commercial primers made by CCI or Federal. The panic buying by everyone has caused the shortage. I was at a gun show in Albuquerque this weekend, and there was a dealer set up directly across the aisle from my table. He was offering primers, most manufacturers, for a flat $40 per K. I watched pretty close as it was a very slow show, and I didn't see him sell many or any primers. There was another guy there with some Remington primers for $35 and I don't think he sold many either. I believe most people have stocked up for the time being. I know I certainly have. Last year, I was placing orders with several distributors for primers every couple of months, asking them to backorder if out of stock, and I got fairly regular shipments of primers all year. I now have sufficient primers to last me several years so I'm going to wait and see if prices drop. I don't believe they will, at least not below published retail prices.

June 7, 2010, 05:52 AM	#30
mtnbkr Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2000 Location: Manassas, Virginia Posts: 914	FWIW, several dealers at the gun show I attended yesterday had primers for $30/1000. Not just one or two boxes either, but stacks. I've been seeing them for $34/1000 at stores (some, not all). Not as good as the $20-$25/1000 I was paying a couple years ago, but much better than the $50+/1000 I saw this time last year. Chris

June 7, 2010, 06:34 PM	#31
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	When the primer thing started I looked in the small shops. I was lucky, and got what I needed before it got real bad. I made sure to get enough but did not over do it. When I found some and new someone was looking I would give them a call, and get them if they wanted them.

June 8, 2010, 06:19 PM	#34
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	We're all mad about it. Anyone disagree? Maybe that's the next million dollar idea. A build your own primers setup...

June 8, 2010, 07:05 PM	#35
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	Well, primers are still the cheapest of all components in my reloads. If I pay $32/1000, that means the primer cost me 3.2 cents. If I were to find some for $25/1000 it cost me 2.5 cents per round. Compared to the cost of brass, bullets, or powder, that 0.7 cents per round is nothing. But then I don't shoot the autos, so I don't go through as many as some folks do. I was talking to the owner of one gun store around here last week. We were talking about primers in particular. Sure, he has a decent supply on the shelf for now. A year ago he typically had none at all. But he said they are STILL not exactly plentiful. He said he got in 50,000 of them about 3 months ago and has about half of that left now. In the meantime, he has had standing orders to his wholesalers and has received absolutely nothing for primers. One of his wholesalers predicted that it's going to take quite a bit longer until everyone has truly plentiful stocks again. It might get worse again before it gets better.