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Old January 16, 2020, 05:22 PM   #1
Pistoler0
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Accurate 308 autoloader?

I own a 308 bolt action (Savage 12 varmint low profile):
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p...ummary&s=18464

but I am thinking about switching to a semi-auto platform. My ONLY reason is that a semi-auto can do double duty as hunting and self-defense, the bolt action not being well-suited for the later. I can only afford maintenance and ammo for 1 rifle, and since I live in Colorado, 223 is not legal for big game hunting and thus .308 is my all purpose, affordable caliber of choice.

Being a savage owner, I like the Savage MSR 10, but it is a bit pricey. This rifle would be ideal for me because it is supposedly super accurate. But if my job were to take me to a non-free state, an autoloader rifle with a classic montecarlo stock is probably less of a headache.

I have researched the Ruger Mini-Thirty, the Browning Bar, Remington 750 Woodmaster, and the Benelli R1.

Can any of these platforms be expected to reach sub-MOA accuracy such as the MSR 10 and some other AR platforms can? Could any of them see satisfactory use as three-gun rifles? Or be used for varmint hunting?
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Old January 16, 2020, 05:53 PM   #2
Bart B.
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Sub MOA accuracy at what maximum range?
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Old January 16, 2020, 07:44 PM   #3
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Sub MOA accuracy at what maximum range?
100 yards
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Old January 16, 2020, 10:15 PM   #4
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Get a PTR or Cetme with a rail for a scope. You can get 5 rounds mags for them. Mine is amazingly accurate, and lightweight. Other options are an AR10/25 or a Galil Ace, but the AR is too heavy and the ship sailed on the cheap ACE rifles.

I had both a Mini-14 and a 30. With certain handloads I could get the 14 to shoot acceptable, killed a lot of coyotes with it. The 30 on the other hand was a bullet hose, even with good brass cased ammo.

The Remington 7400's can shoot well, my buddy had an old beat up 740 in 243 that was a genuine 1/2 moa rifle, I bought a new 7400 one and best it will do is around an inch. They can be a bit fickle.
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Old January 16, 2020, 11:03 PM   #5
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Springfield M1A? Looks like $1350 - ish on gun broke, one of the coolest rifles on the planet if you ask me.... (look up their model MA9102, the non - fancy one)
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Old January 17, 2020, 07:04 AM   #6
bull bob
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If you could find one , maybe a Winchester model 100.

I just saw 2 on the used rack in a shop the other day.

Tags had a price of $650
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Old January 17, 2020, 07:54 AM   #7
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I have a rock-bottom PA10 carbine I put together (bought the lower and upper separately) for about $500, put a red dot on on it and walking around shooting free-hand most of the the time I can hit a milk jug randomly distanced out to 100 very well. If you want something light and fast in an autoloader for 308--you're going to usually have to pay for it big time. This isn't a one hole all day long at 1000 yds gun--but it hits with authority with plenty enough accuracy for close defense situations.
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Old January 17, 2020, 11:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by chadio View Post
Springfield M1A? Looks like $1350 - ish on gun broke, one of the coolest rifles on the planet if you ask me.... (look up their model MA9102, the non - fancy one)
Yep, I really like the Springfield.
The only thing I have against it is that the safety is so close to the trigger, and also some reports that it jams more than other semi-autos.

Last edited by Pistoler0; January 17, 2020 at 11:52 AM.
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Old January 17, 2020, 04:25 PM   #9
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I've never vencountered jamming with an M
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Old January 17, 2020, 04:28 PM   #10
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I've never encountered jamming with an M1A and decent ammo.

The only fault of the M1A is a weapon that heavy should have wheels on it!
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Old January 17, 2020, 04:33 PM   #11
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I'll second the PSA Gen. III recommendation. reasonably priced, and reliable.

The price is very good, and that allowed me to upgrade various parts.

I would suggest a quality Adj. GB be installed... most all Large Frame AR's benefit from one.

I have only seen one barrel manufacturer use a "more reasonable" gas port size in their barrel production, Krieger.

Also, for the most part.. an AR platform is a DIY platform... easily upgraded.
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Old January 17, 2020, 04:57 PM   #12
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Most semis are pretty heavy. Also, with your traditional stock requirement, your options are a bit more limited. Have you considered keeping the bolt gun and focusing on a self-defense pistol?
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Old January 17, 2020, 05:02 PM   #13
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Browning BAR..never look back
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Old January 18, 2020, 05:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raimius View Post
Most semis are pretty heavy. Also, with your traditional stock requirement, your options are a bit more limited. Have you considered keeping the bolt gun and focusing on a self-defense pistol?
raimius,

yes, I already have a self defense pistol. I am the kind of person who instead of having a specialized tool for each dedicated use, I like to have equipment that is as versatile as possible. Hardware that is jack of all trades and master of none.

This comes from the fact that I have a lot of hobbies, I am a spoiled guy (but not a rich one): between firearms, archery, bicycles, skiing, motorcycles, weight lifting equipment etc, I cannot afford to have several of anything. My wife long ago limited me to one of each: no way I could have a mountain bike, a road bike, a gravel bike, and then a 3D bow, a hunting bow, a bowfishing bow... you get the point.
[although: a secret... sometimes I buy stuff that I say is for her, yet it is really for me. Example: HUGE extra wide computer monitor screen for her graphics design last Christmas.... which also happens to be GREAT for playing games! :-) Versatility ]


My wife didn't know much about firearms (she was very much anti before meeting me) so after she has learned about them, she has limited me to: 1 pistol, 1 rifle, 1 shot gun (I still don't own one) and one 22lr firearm for teaching kids and newbies. I asked "how about one muzzle loader?" she said NO! : ( Can you believe it?

That's why I was thinking about changing to a semi-auto platform in 308 for the rifle. I thought that it could do hunting duty and competition / shooting club duty (which my current bolt action does) and also self defense in the zombie apocalypse duty.

Last edited by Pistoler0; January 18, 2020 at 05:43 PM.
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Old January 18, 2020, 08:43 PM   #15
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An M1 Garand in 7.62X51 (.308) is one of the most accurate semis that with a good barrel will shoot right along with the commercial weapons like the BAR. The M1 is big and heavy but has very good balance and an excellent trigger for a battle rifle. Also, I don't think anyone would argue the utility of the Garand as a defensive weapon

Not readily scoped and certainly retro but cool as heck. The iron sights on the Garand are second to none, same as the M1A. There are M1A models that are more optics friendly.
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Old January 19, 2020, 09:17 AM   #16
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Your NOT going to achieve "sub MOA" with a standard or loaded M1A . You "might" achieve MOA or better with the National Match series IF you handload precision match ammo. I have a box stock M1A loaded and i'm at about 1.45 MOA at 100 yds with my 168 SMK handloads shooting with an optic and shooting supported benchrest.
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Old January 19, 2020, 10:05 AM   #17
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I would look at an M1A with a national match barrel. My second option would be a PTR-91. I think the M1A is better for accuracy and the PTR-91 is better for practicality (more versions, more modern design, etc).
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Old January 19, 2020, 09:40 PM   #18
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I had a BAR in 270. Heavy, but shot great. I’d probably go with that if I wanted another semi. Other options I’d consider would be a used Winchester model 100 or Remington 742. No way I’m toting around an M1A, though I did shoot an M14 real well in the Marines.
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Old January 21, 2020, 10:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
My ONLY reason is that a semi-auto can do double duty as hunting and self-defense
I'm going to take a different direction.

If you need a self defense rifle, then get a self defense rifle. The only one you listed that I would give consideration to is the Mini-30 due to its magazine size, but it is not a sub-MOA rifle on average. In a self-defense situation, do you really want to be mag-limited in a 750, BAR, or an R-1? Do you really want a longer rifle in that situation or one you can maneuver better with in a self defense scenario?

If you are planning to put your life on the line with it, give yourself the best advantage and get a tool built for the job rather than trying to make do with a tool best suited for something else.

If budget is the driving factor, (you menton only being able to afford maintenance and ammo for 1 rifle, but then talk about 3 gun?), keep your .308 bolt for all the greatness it can do, and save up and get the self defense carbine (and consider all the options out there, many of which can double in the 3-gun arena).
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Old January 23, 2020, 08:01 AM   #20
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Browning offers a .308 BAR that uses detachable mags. Its different than the BARs that have the hinged floor plate with the 4 round mag.
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Old January 23, 2020, 11:09 AM   #21
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The PTR 91 GIR is accurate possessing a floating barrel standard, one of the simplest reliable actions ever designed, and you can get 20 magazines for the cost of three compared to the M1A.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/pro...le-mag-release

Magazines are 5-6 bucks a piece for high quality aluminium magazines.

https://www.brownells.com/magazines/...prod87464.aspx

Compared to 35 dollars for a single 20 round M1A magazine

https://www.brownells.com/magazines/...prod27330.aspx


Provided you find the right magazine that works in your AR 10 series....

The cost of acquiring a sufficient number of magazines to cover both the duties you want (5 round for hunting and ~7+ magazines for defense) the initial cost advantage of a questionable AR series is negated.

Just something to think about. Wander over to the HKpro forums...there is a wealth of knowledge over there about the platform and its support.
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Old January 23, 2020, 11:20 AM   #22
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i have 3,,,HK,M1a,AR10

i like all of them,,,the M1a and the AR10 are pretty close to each other as far as accuracy ,,,,both are maybe right at or a touch over 1moa,,,,,but even the HK is maybe a 1.5moa shooter

they all have a spot in my heart,,,i really do like them all......BUT

if i had to choose just one of them,,,i would more than likely go with the AR10,,,it is heavy,,,,but they all are heavy,,,,,might be .5 pound difference among them,,,maybe,,,,but the 10 is more compact and leaves nothing on the table for accuracy and power,,,it balances well has a good overall feel,,,and the controls are common to the AR15,,,,

the AR10 is shorter by about 10" give or take than the M1a,,making it easier to handle in close quarters,,,and for me brings everything to the table+

thats why for ME,,,if i had to pick one,,, it would be my AR10

probably just kicked the hornets nest in the M1a camp but i have both or all 3,,,,,just saying IF i had to pick

thats my .02,,,,,YMMV

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Old January 23, 2020, 12:21 PM   #23
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M1A
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Old January 23, 2020, 04:07 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsog View Post
The PTR 91 GIR is accurate possessing a floating barrel standard, one of the simplest reliable actions ever designed, and you can get 20 magazines for the cost of three compared to the M1A.

Just something to think about. Wander over to the HKpro forums...there is a wealth of knowledge over there about the platform and its support.
Ooooh, thank you! I am now lusting after the MSG PTR 106. Pricey, though.

https://ptr-us.com/product/msg-ptr-106/
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Old January 24, 2020, 07:52 AM   #25
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I own a 308 bolt action * * * but I am thinking about switching to a semi-auto platform. My ONLY reason is that a semi-auto can do double duty as hunting and self-defense, the bolt action not being well-suited for the later. I can only afford maintenance and ammo for 1 rifle, and since I live in Colorado, 223 is not legal for big game hunting and thus .308 is my all purpose, affordable caliber of choice.
CMP M1 Garand in .308.

Keep the GI gas plug in when shooting or plinking at the range with the 'service grade' FMJ stuff.

Install a Schuster adjustable gas plug for your favorite .308 'hunting' ammo (e.g., 180gn SP spitzers) and re-zero at the range. Now you're ready to hunt big game. I know two guys who do exactly that each fall as deer season approaches. They shoot Service Rifle and Vintage Military Rifle matches during the summer. After Labor Day they recalibrate their M1s for hunting.

Plus, it bears mentioning the M1 is still 50-states legal ... Not being fed by an evil detachable magazine might become a significant 'thing' down the road.

Word to the wise.
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