Debating LCR in .22 mag or .327 mag

VADER · November 17, 2018, 11:48 AM

Before I get flack for this, let me just say it's for my daughter and I am just in the "thinking about" stage. Going away to college next year.....and for self defense.
She has tried most calibers and can shoot them at a range, but real world without earplugs, without hesitation, what would work.
I'm thinking Ruger LCR in .22 magnum or .327 magnum.
.22 because low recoil, but loud. She likes her browning .22 so I think it would be an easy transition.
.327 for its power, and even versatility of rounds available, but loud, and might cause hesitation or even shock after firing.

Thoughts welcome.
Does .22 magnum not also fire .22 LR?

Thanks

reteach · November 17, 2018, 12:30 PM

I have an LCRX in .327 mag. I have shot magnum loads in it, and like you say, it's very loud and has some noticeable recoil. I carry it loaded with .32 H&R magnum, which is much more comfortable to shoot. I also shoot .32 S&W Long in it, which is almost like shooting a .22. My suggestion is let her try a .327, downloaded with one of those other cartridges.

A .22 magnum cylinder will not accept .22 LR.

T. O'Heir · November 17, 2018, 12:50 PM

"...it's for my daughter..." That makes it her decision, not yours. No firearms are allowed on campus by most, if not all, colleges and universities anyway. Absolutely none in college residences. If that applies.
"...but loud..." So will any cartridge out of a wee short barrel.
"...22 Magnum or .327 Magnum..." That'd be an apples and oranges comparison. Difference in weight of an LCR in either is less than an ounce. The .327 has considerably more recoil though.
"....22 magnum not also fire .22 LR?..." Nope. Different bullet diameter and totally different case dimensions. The LR case is much smaller in every dimension.

Targa · November 17, 2018, 01:14 PM

I would steer her towards the .327. Wide range of cartridges from mild to wild, the biggest factor for me would be the centerfire vs. rimfire aspect of it especially from a self defense standpoint.

Dan-O · November 17, 2018, 02:06 PM

Trigger is pretty atrocious on rimfire vs centerfire. If you don’t reload, .327 mag and the other calibers you can shoot from the platform will get real expensive, real quick.

My wife has a .327 federal mag lcr, and we both love it.

VADER · November 17, 2018, 02:42 PM

Thanks for the replies. No one asked, but I should also have stated she is unable to pull a slide back on a pistol in case anyone was wondering why that wasn't an option.
Yes, somewhat her choice, but I am helping her make the right decision. She thinks a 1/4" dowel in hand will work for defense.

reteach · November 17, 2018, 03:21 PM

Price of ammo for the .327 is a factor, but you can get .32 H&R Critical Defense for about 85 cents a round and .32 S&W Long for about 35 cents a round. Have to add shipping, of course, but it's still not terrible.

reddog81 · November 17, 2018, 03:30 PM

.22 Mag ammo is kind of hard to find and you'll be limited to a fairly narrow window of performance options, but the ammo is cheaper.

With the .327 ammo is still going to be kind of hard to find but you'll at least have more options out there as it should be able to shoot anything from 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag, and of course .327. 32 S&W Long would be a great option for a new shooter and you can find boxes of 50 for under $15.

Personally I'd go with the .38 Special LCRx, but you didn't list that as an option...

mellow_c · November 17, 2018, 03:45 PM

You both might want to consider the Beretta Bobcat as an option. I'm pretty sure they still make them in 22 lr and 25 ACP, but i believe they have discontinued the Tomcat which was in 32 ACP.

I know this is the revolver forum, but still, I think they are worth mentioning.

The 22 and 25 both hold 7 in the mag and one in the chamber. The barrel hinges and tilts up by pressing a release lever so that a single round can be loaded into the chamber, so that you don't have to rack the slide.

It can be carried with the safety on or off, with the hammer down or cocked. That means you can carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 (hamer back and safety on for a single action first shot), or you can carry it with the hammer down for a long double action pull for the first shot with all subsequent shots being single action. With the hammer down and a double action first shot you can choose to either use the safety, or leave it off so the first shot would be just like a revolver.

I'm sure the gun would be quieter than either of the options you are looking at now due to it being a semi auto (no blast coming out from between the cylinder's chamber and barrel gap) and also because of the cartridges being less powerful.

I think they are great little guns, but the cartridges are not very powerful, and also I'm not sure I would trust the reliability of a .22lr for self defense, and I have no experience with 25 ACP.

Still, they are extremely small guns, easy to hold and fire, and it could be a great alternative to what you're looking at now.

2damnold4this · November 17, 2018, 04:43 PM

Most .22 magnum ammo is designed for use in rifle length barrels and may not perform as well as some of the .32 offerings. .22 mag from a snubby will likely have more blast and muzzle flash than many if the .32 loadings.

A rimfire revolver might have a slightly heavier trigger pull than a centerfire model.

Jim Watson · November 17, 2018, 05:27 PM

Agree, a .22 Magnum is LOUD.
Rimfire ignition takes a harder blow than centerfire, mainsprings are stronger, trigger pull is heavier.

Quote:

No one asked, but I should also have stated she is unable to pull a slide back on a pistol in case anyone was wondering why that wasn't an option.

Why not? If she cant pull 15 pounds with both hands and arms how is she to apply ten pounds with one finger? It may be more a lack of technique than a lack of strength.

Quote:

Yes, somewhat her choice, but I am helping her make the right decision. She thinks a 1/4" dowel in hand will work for defense.

If she thinks a pencil is an adequate weapon, why do you think she will bother with a pistol?

MarkCO · November 17, 2018, 07:06 PM

I have had similar issues with several women I have trained, including my wife.

I firmly believe in letting the person who will use/rely on the fireatm make the choice. With shooters who can not rack the slide on an auto-loading pistol, it has always come down to one of a handful of choices in .357 Magnum, .38 Spl. or 9mm revolvers. It is almost always also to shoot the reduced recoil loads that are all subsonic.

I'd take her to the range and rent a few and let her get comfortable with the choices. Good for you for taking care of your child and getting her set up. If you can get her into some sort a personal safety type of course that includes first aid and stop the bleed, I'll elevate you to hero status.

MarkCO · November 17, 2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

No firearms are allowed on campus by most, if not all, colleges and universities anyway. Absolutely none in college residences. If that applies.

False. Please do your research. I am constantly amazed at the erroneous advice stated as fact.

https://www.businessinsider.com/stat...ampuses-2017-4

Road_Clam · November 17, 2018, 07:28 PM

When my wife started showing interest in handgun shooting and making a first purchase I basically explained to her that I can't and won't help you with choice, I will explain in detail all that i've learned as far as pros and cons with all my styles of handgun. Out of all my 5 different configurations of handgun, and a trip to a local indoor range to rent a few I didn't have, my wife settled on my Glock G22 in .40 S&W. Oddly the Glock is my most disliked by me. Don't suggest to your wife that "I think you will be best with #### brand". Stay out of the opinions, let HER shoot, let HER make the best decision on what feels "just right" when handling and shooting.

MarkCO · November 17, 2018, 07:33 PM

Can't find the LIKE button Road_Clam.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 17, 2018, 07:50 PM

I own revolvers in both .22 Magnum and .327 Federal Magnum, so I feel marginally qualified to offer an opinion on this.

First up, a .22 Magnum should not be shot with .22 LR (or .22 Long or .22 Short). It may work, but it also may tie up the gun when the cases split. For a "non-magnum magnum" load, you can use the older .22 Winchester Rimfire (.22 WRF) cartridge. Most gun shops won't have it in stock but CCI makes it and you can find it on-line. It's close to .22 LR in power and velocity.

A few ammo manufacturers now offer personal defense or "short barrel" loads in .22 Magnum that are more suited to use in handguns. If she goes with the .22 magnum, I would suggest that she look at those.

All the above notwithstanding, for this purpose I recommend that she go with the .327 Federal Magnum. With that choice, she will have no less than five (5) options for ammunition, ranging basically from Super Wimpy to Ferocious. She can tailor the ammo she carries to fit her tolerance for noise/recoil, and have the added benefit of centerfire reliability.

Disclaimer: I don't carry my .327 Federal Magnum revolver (or any revolver) for self defense. I bought it because I wanted to see what the hooplah was all about. I think I have stocks of four out of the five possible ammo choices for it. Personally, I find the ammo flexibility to be more of an attraction for the .327 Magnum firearms than the outright, fire-breathing power of the .327 Magnum cartridge itself.

TruthTellers · November 17, 2018, 08:00 PM

I've had far too many failures of .22 Mag not firing on the first strike to put much faith into the cartridge. Unless it's an NAA mini revolver, I would not get a .22 Mag revolver for self defense ever. Ammo isn't reliable, in a panic during certain political climates the ammo is impossible to find, and the revolvers that fire it have rimfire hammer springs, which are very heavy.

.327 loaded with .32 H&R is gonna do everything she'll need done.

VADER · November 17, 2018, 08:47 PM

Thanks for the addtl replies. Well, she was able to rack a glock 26 after initial struggle, but under duress? Not sure.
I am leaning towards the .327 but she has to try it and feel comfortable using it, so she will use it if needed, even though I hope she never has to. That's a run on sentence.
Thanks, always appreciated for the wisdom and insight here.

TxFlyFish · November 17, 2018, 09:19 PM

I would go 327 loaded not with 327 but any of the milder cartridges that fit.

Doc Holliday 1950 · November 17, 2018, 10:31 PM

I was going to post that my wife just bought herself the Ruger 327 magnum 6 shot revolver at out local GS. He threw in a trigger job to bring the trigger pull down to 8.5 which is just perfect for her. The reason I'm so jazzed is it totally out performs her Ruger 22 LR 8 shot revolver as a defense carry. What''s also so neat is it weighs 17 ounces & isn't that Poly garbage but is made in Stainless Steel.

So, I bought her for SD 4 boxes of 20 count 85 grain Hydra-Shok ammo($16.99) and for practice a couple of boxes of Fed Champion 32 H & R 95 grain lead SWC ammo. If it performs as well as I think it will, then I'll just have to get one for myself.

Vader, thanks for your post. Your timming was perfect but there was absolutely no debate on this.

HighValleyRanch · November 17, 2018, 10:59 PM

Quote:

What''s also so neat is it weighs 17 ounces & isn't that Poly garbage but is made in Stainless Steel.

So if it's still a LCR then it still has "poly junk" for the grip and trigger housing.
It has stainless in the upper instead of monolith aluminum.

If it's a Ruger SP101, then it weighs a bit more than 17 oz.

txray22 · November 18, 2018, 09:24 AM

I would check out the LCR in .22LR (8 shot) using CCI stingers or velocitor ammo

seeker_two · November 18, 2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkCO

I have had similar issues with several women I have trained, including my wife.

I firmly believe in letting the person who will use/rely on the fireatm make the choice. With shooters who can not rack the slide on an auto-loading pistol, it has always come down to one of a handful of choices in .357 Magnum, .38 Spl. or 9mm revolvers. It is almost always also to shoot the reduced recoil loads that are all subsonic.

I'd take her to the range and rent a few and let her get comfortable with the choices. Good for you for taking care of your child and getting her set up. If you can get her into some sort a personal safety type of course that includes first aid and stop the bleed, I'll elevate you to hero status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by txray22

I would check out the LCR in .22LR (8 shot) using CCI stingers or velocitor ammo

Agree with both. If possible, have her try the Walther CCP Mk2 and S&W Shield EZ in .380 as well. In the end, she won't use any gun that she's not pleased or practiced with.....or that she didn't want in the first place.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

Obambulate · November 18, 2018, 10:53 AM

I would go for the LCR .327 and load it with .32 H&R magnum or .32 S&W Long for self defense.

T. O'Heir · November 18, 2018, 12:24 PM

A 1/4" dowel in hand will work for defense if you modify it with a pencil sharpener. No complaints or other issues from the school either. However, sticking sharp things into people takes a totally different mind set than using any hand gun does.
"...had far too many failures of .22 Mag not firing..." There's something wrong with whatever you've been firing it out of. .22 Mag is no more unreliable than any other rimfire.

November 17, 2018, 11:48 AM	#1
VADER Member Join Date: May 21, 2002 Location: NE FL Posts: 60	Debating LCR in .22 mag or .327 mag Before I get flack for this, let me just say it's for my daughter and I am just in the "thinking about" stage. Going away to college next year.....and for self defense. She has tried most calibers and can shoot them at a range, but real world without earplugs, without hesitation, what would work. I'm thinking Ruger LCR in .22 magnum or .327 magnum. .22 because low recoil, but loud. She likes her browning .22 so I think it would be an easy transition. .327 for its power, and even versatility of rounds available, but loud, and might cause hesitation or even shock after firing. Thoughts welcome. Does .22 magnum not also fire .22 LR? Thanks

November 17, 2018, 12:50 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...it's for my daughter..." That makes it her decision, not yours. No firearms are allowed on campus by most, if not all, colleges and universities anyway. Absolutely none in college residences. If that applies. "...but loud..." So will any cartridge out of a wee short barrel. "...22 Magnum or .327 Magnum..." That'd be an apples and oranges comparison. Difference in weight of an LCR in either is less than an ounce. The .327 has considerably more recoil though. "....22 magnum not also fire .22 LR?..." Nope. Different bullet diameter and totally different case dimensions. The LR case is much smaller in every dimension. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 17, 2018, 03:45 PM	#9
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	You both might want to consider the Beretta Bobcat as an option. I'm pretty sure they still make them in 22 lr and 25 ACP, but i believe they have discontinued the Tomcat which was in 32 ACP. I know this is the revolver forum, but still, I think they are worth mentioning. The 22 and 25 both hold 7 in the mag and one in the chamber. The barrel hinges and tilts up by pressing a release lever so that a single round can be loaded into the chamber, so that you don't have to rack the slide. It can be carried with the safety on or off, with the hammer down or cocked. That means you can carry it cocked and locked like a 1911 (hamer back and safety on for a single action first shot), or you can carry it with the hammer down for a long double action pull for the first shot with all subsequent shots being single action. With the hammer down and a double action first shot you can choose to either use the safety, or leave it off so the first shot would be just like a revolver. I'm sure the gun would be quieter than either of the options you are looking at now due to it being a semi auto (no blast coming out from between the cylinder's chamber and barrel gap) and also because of the cartridges being less powerful. I think they are great little guns, but the cartridges are not very powerful, and also I'm not sure I would trust the reliability of a .22lr for self defense, and I have no experience with 25 ACP. Still, they are extremely small guns, easy to hold and fire, and it could be a great alternative to what you're looking at now. Last edited by mellow_c; November 17, 2018 at 03:52 PM.

November 17, 2018, 07:06 PM	#12
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	I have had similar issues with several women I have trained, including my wife. I firmly believe in letting the person who will use/rely on the fireatm make the choice. With shooters who can not rack the slide on an auto-loading pistol, it has always come down to one of a handful of choices in .357 Magnum, .38 Spl. or 9mm revolvers. It is almost always also to shoot the reduced recoil loads that are all subsonic. I'd take her to the range and rent a few and let her get comfortable with the choices. Good for you for taking care of your child and getting her set up. If you can get her into some sort a personal safety type of course that includes first aid and stop the bleed, I'll elevate you to hero status. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 17, 2018, 07:28 PM	#14
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	When my wife started showing interest in handgun shooting and making a first purchase I basically explained to her that I can't and won't help you with choice, I will explain in detail all that i've learned as far as pros and cons with all my styles of handgun. Out of all my 5 different configurations of handgun, and a trip to a local indoor range to rent a few I didn't have, my wife settled on my Glock G22 in .40 S&W. Oddly the Glock is my most disliked by me. Don't suggest to your wife that "I think you will be best with #### brand". Stay out of the opinions, let HER shoot, let HER make the best decision on what feels "just right" when handling and shooting. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

November 17, 2018, 12:30 PM	#2
reteach Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 379	I have an LCRX in .327 mag. I have shot magnum loads in it, and like you say, it's very loud and has some noticeable recoil. I carry it loaded with .32 H&R magnum, which is much more comfortable to shoot. I also shoot .32 S&W Long in it, which is almost like shooting a .22. My suggestion is let her try a .327, downloaded with one of those other cartridges. A .22 magnum cylinder will not accept .22 LR.

November 17, 2018, 01:14 PM	#4
Targa Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2014 Posts: 2,084	I would steer her towards the .327. Wide range of cartridges from mild to wild, the biggest factor for me would be the centerfire vs. rimfire aspect of it especially from a self defense standpoint.

November 17, 2018, 02:06 PM	#5
Dan-O Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2011 Location: Northern Colorado Posts: 969	Trigger is pretty atrocious on rimfire vs centerfire. If you don’t reload, .327 mag and the other calibers you can shoot from the platform will get real expensive, real quick. My wife has a .327 federal mag lcr, and we both love it.

November 17, 2018, 02:42 PM	#6
VADER Member Join Date: May 21, 2002 Location: NE FL Posts: 60	Thanks for the replies. No one asked, but I should also have stated she is unable to pull a slide back on a pistol in case anyone was wondering why that wasn't an option. Yes, somewhat her choice, but I am helping her make the right decision. She thinks a 1/4" dowel in hand will work for defense.

November 17, 2018, 03:21 PM	#7
reteach Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2016 Location: Texas Posts: 379	Price of ammo for the .327 is a factor, but you can get .32 H&R Critical Defense for about 85 cents a round and .32 S&W Long for about 35 cents a round. Have to add shipping, of course, but it's still not terrible.

November 17, 2018, 03:30 PM	#8
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,635	.22 Mag ammo is kind of hard to find and you'll be limited to a fairly narrow window of performance options, but the ammo is cheaper. With the .327 ammo is still going to be kind of hard to find but you'll at least have more options out there as it should be able to shoot anything from 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag, and of course .327. 32 S&W Long would be a great option for a new shooter and you can find boxes of 50 for under $15. Personally I'd go with the .38 Special LCRx, but you didn't list that as an option...

November 17, 2018, 04:43 PM	#10
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	Most .22 magnum ammo is designed for use in rifle length barrels and may not perform as well as some of the .32 offerings. .22 mag from a snubby will likely have more blast and muzzle flash than many if the .32 loadings. A rimfire revolver might have a slightly heavier trigger pull than a centerfire model.

November 17, 2018, 07:33 PM	#15
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,308	Can't find the LIKE button Road_Clam. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

November 17, 2018, 07:50 PM	#16
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,476	I own revolvers in both .22 Magnum and .327 Federal Magnum, so I feel marginally qualified to offer an opinion on this. First up, a .22 Magnum should not be shot with .22 LR (or .22 Long or .22 Short). It may work, but it also may tie up the gun when the cases split. For a "non-magnum magnum" load, you can use the older .22 Winchester Rimfire (.22 WRF) cartridge. Most gun shops won't have it in stock but CCI makes it and you can find it on-line. It's close to .22 LR in power and velocity. A few ammo manufacturers now offer personal defense or "short barrel" loads in .22 Magnum that are more suited to use in handguns. If she goes with the .22 magnum, I would suggest that she look at those. All the above notwithstanding, for this purpose I recommend that she go with the .327 Federal Magnum. With that choice, she will have no less than five (5) options for ammunition, ranging basically from Super Wimpy to Ferocious. She can tailor the ammo she carries to fit her tolerance for noise/recoil, and have the added benefit of centerfire reliability. Disclaimer: I don't carry my .327 Federal Magnum revolver (or any revolver) for self defense. I bought it because I wanted to see what the hooplah was all about. I think I have stocks of four out of the five possible ammo choices for it. Personally, I find the ammo flexibility to be more of an attraction for the .327 Magnum firearms than the outright, fire-breathing power of the .327 Magnum cartridge itself.

November 17, 2018, 08:00 PM	#17
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,889	I've had far too many failures of .22 Mag not firing on the first strike to put much faith into the cartridge. Unless it's an NAA mini revolver, I would not get a .22 Mag revolver for self defense ever. Ammo isn't reliable, in a panic during certain political climates the ammo is impossible to find, and the revolvers that fire it have rimfire hammer springs, which are very heavy. .327 loaded with .32 H&R is gonna do everything she'll need done. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

November 17, 2018, 08:47 PM	#18
VADER Member Join Date: May 21, 2002 Location: NE FL Posts: 60	Thanks for the addtl replies. Well, she was able to rack a glock 26 after initial struggle, but under duress? Not sure. I am leaning towards the .327 but she has to try it and feel comfortable using it, so she will use it if needed, even though I hope she never has to. That's a run on sentence. Thanks, always appreciated for the wisdom and insight here.

November 17, 2018, 09:19 PM	#19
TxFlyFish Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2011 Posts: 1,246	I would go 327 loaded not with 327 but any of the milder cartridges that fit.

November 17, 2018, 10:31 PM	#20
Doc Holliday 1950 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2014 Location: Bout as south as it gets Posts: 1,238	I was going to post that my wife just bought herself the Ruger 327 magnum 6 shot revolver at out local GS. He threw in a trigger job to bring the trigger pull down to 8.5 which is just perfect for her. The reason I'm so jazzed is it totally out performs her Ruger 22 LR 8 shot revolver as a defense carry. What''s also so neat is it weighs 17 ounces & isn't that Poly garbage but is made in Stainless Steel. So, I bought her for SD 4 boxes of 20 count 85 grain Hydra-Shok ammo($16.99) and for practice a couple of boxes of Fed Champion 32 H & R 95 grain lead SWC ammo. If it performs as well as I think it will, then I'll just have to get one for myself. Vader, thanks for your post. Your timming was perfect but there was absolutely no debate on this. __________________ Shoot well and be Accurate, Doc

November 18, 2018, 09:24 AM	#22
txray22 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 167	I would check out the LCR in .22LR (8 shot) using CCI stingers or velocitor ammo __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA annual member

November 18, 2018, 10:53 AM	#24
Obambulate Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2011 Posts: 582	I would go for the LCR .327 and load it with .32 H&R magnum or .32 S&W Long for self defense.

November 18, 2018, 12:24 PM	#25
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	A 1/4" dowel in hand will work for defense if you modify it with a pencil sharpener. No complaints or other issues from the school either. However, sticking sharp things into people takes a totally different mind set than using any hand gun does. "...had far too many failures of .22 Mag not firing..." There's something wrong with whatever you've been firing it out of. .22 Mag is no more unreliable than any other rimfire. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!