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Old August 29, 2018, 03:51 PM   #51
Paul B.
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" Ammo is everywhere, including that WalMart on your way out past city limits at 5 AM on opening day."

Dunno if it's just local or with all Walmart stores but the one I go to stops all firearm ad ammo sales at 9PM and opens up again at IIRC 9AM. Might be store policy or maybe state or city ordinance.
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Old August 29, 2018, 04:06 PM   #52
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Well I've owned or shot every on of the OP's options except the Creedmore and would probably shoot one more out of curiosity to see what the fuss is about.

With that said, I'd look at the .308. Not saying that's my first choice but that along with the 30-06 and .270 will probably be the easiest to find should one need a resupply.

Interesting fact; a few years back I ran a velocity test with Winchester 180 gr. Powerpoint ammo in the .308 Win. and 30-06. From the 22" barreled .308 and 30-06, velocity was almost exactly the same. Combine average 2610 FPS. I also ran some of the 06 through a 24" and 26" barrel and the only one that came close to factory advertised speed was from the 26" barrel.

I do find the 7-08 interesting but no desire to buy one as I have a nice modern 7x57 and my hand loads duplicate anything the 7-08 can do. For those questioning the 7-08 on elk, if my outfitter gets a cancellation for this years hunt, we'll see what a 7x57 pushing a 150 gr. Nosler Partition will do on an elk.

FWIW, the late gun writer John Wooters favorite whitetail rifle was a Mannlicher stocked Sako in .308 Win. I forget which weight bullet he favored but I think it was the 150 gr. Nosler.
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Old August 29, 2018, 06:22 PM   #53
Art Eatman
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Roamin Wade, in the common deer load, the 7mm08 is a .308 with a ten-grains lighter bullet. Any betterment in coefficient is meaningless inside of 300 yards.
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Old August 29, 2018, 06:35 PM   #54
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the 7mm08 is a .308 with a ten-grains lighter bullet
And, a little over 1 ft lb less recoil if you were ever on the fence with deciding whether or not a .308's recoil is too much for you.
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Old August 29, 2018, 06:38 PM   #55
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“Any betterment in coefficient is meaningless inside of 300 yards.”

While true it’s still better, and not by a little.
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Old August 29, 2018, 08:12 PM   #56
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Watering the grass after I mowed and found it becomes windy once you bring pen and paper outside. Need SWMBO to come out with pen and paper next time I mow as it was quite still and Texas hot while I was mowing. Enough jabber...

I haven’t looked at commercial ballistics in several years and found them not quite so easy and straight forward as before. I ended up using Remington ammo ballistics despite the fact I’ve always been preferential to Hornady.

The 7mm/.284” 140 grn bullet has virtually the identical sectional density (SD) as the 7.62mm/.308” 165 grn bullet. These are what I compared in an identical style of bullet (AccuTip) one might choose for whitetail. However one might note that to look for a higher sectional density wanting to hunt bigger and tougher game one generally bottoms out in .308 with a 180 grn bullet at .271 whereas working with a 7mm and even just a 162 grn bullet we’ve exceeded that at .287. And maybe to some these differences don’t mean much, and I must admit that I love efficiency and typically strive for it so even a little bit means something to me:

Back to the subject of a typical apples to apples (comparing SD and what’s thought to be a significant indicator for penetration capability):

My ballistics calculator is set for 900’ as that’s typical for the places I hunt. My numbers are for the muzzle, 100 yds, 200 yds, followed by 250 yds, and then 300 yds.

For the 140 grn AT with a SD of .246+ (number for 139 grn bullet) Remington gives a muzzle velocity of 2860 fps. I give the trajectory and then 90* wind drift.

2.1” 0.0” -3.1” -7.7” 0.7” 2.7” 4.3” 6.3”

For the 165 grn AT a velocity of 2670 fps is given. Standard velocities for both. The SD is .248 for a 165 grn bullet. Can’t get much similar, thought the 154 vs the 180 is quite close too, but Hornady loves their SuperPerformance loadings and I don’t know how similar that is to the well established “old school” loads. The .308 Win:

2.5” 0.0” -3.7” -9.2” 0.8” 3.3” 5.2” 7.6”

So within 250 yds the differences aren’t that much, though there still is an advantage. And for me wind drift is a very big deal. I can judge distance well enough for something like this. But the wind? Not so much. Can you tell me if this is a 10 mph breeze or 15? Or was it maybe just 7? At 250 yds it’s just around an inch, but if you were already a couple of inches off or the deer moved just that few. I like things to be in my favor how insignificant it may seem I suppose. Did I mention I love things to be efficient?

But I added 300 yds. What if it were just a bit further? As you can see by the numbers the drop is 1.5” less and the wind drift is 1.3” less. Maybe that’s not tremendous, but if I were choosing one cartridge period I’d prefer better.

Now the 7mm/.284” bullets in similar SD configurations may show an advantage there’s the slight advantage to the .30 cal with its mass. But then the 7x57mm has proven to take on quite the range of huge/dangerous animals. And I wouldn’t hunt elephant with even the 7mm-08 AI, but apparently it will do the job if you can do yours and close up at that. Not for me I must say as I’d opt for something a LOT bigger and with backup. But I’m not bad a$$ like some of those before us.
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Old August 29, 2018, 08:13 PM   #57
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Oh, and there seems to be a significant recoil difference between the 7mm-08 and .308 Win for those who count those numbers.

In essence a lower recoiling cartridge capable of the same penetration but with a bit flatter trajectory and better wind drift numbers. Win win in my opinion, and yet still capable of large game.

And this is a big part of why I feel the 7mm-08 Rem is the most ideal cartridge. Unfortunately it still isn’t extremely popular and commercial ammo doesn’t give many options (and possibly none in some places) in stores.

Commercial ammo only I’d go with the .308 Win (and still Ackley Improve it for .30-06 Sprg performance). But I’d seriously compare it to .260 Rem as well (and AI that too), especially if one were considering only medium game (I wouldn’t because I know how good elk taste and would push for and jump on an opportunity):

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Old August 29, 2018, 08:33 PM   #58
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Oh, and there seems to be a significant recoil difference between the 7mm-08 and .308 Win for those who count those numbers.
Recoil...
Very subjective.
Everyone perceives it differently.
(I'm not picking on you rodwhaincamo.)

Have three people shoot the same rifle, and they'll all have different opinions of the recoil. Ergonomics are a big factor, of course.

Even the same person can 'feel' things differently on different days, even if shooting with exactly the same equipment, position, and ammunition.

I have two Ruger 77 Mk IIs. One is a 7x57mm. One is a .270 Win. Same original factory configuration, except the .270 has a laminate stock.
Some days, the .270 feels brutal, while the 7x57 feels harsh but not terrible. -- Which is roughly what you'd expect from that cartridge comparison.
Other days, the .270 feels just fine, and the 7x57 feels nasty.
Then, some days (like yesterday), the .270 feels like a pussycat, and the 7x57 feels exactly the same.

Phases of the moon. What you had for breakfast. Hydration level. Irritation level. Caffeine level. And whether or not Jupiter is in the Second House. ...Seemingly all are things that temporarily influence one's perception of recoil.


(I don't consider the difference between 7mm-08 and .308 Win to be notable, for the record. The difference is generally less than 1 lb-ft for similar-weight bullets.)
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Old August 29, 2018, 08:33 PM   #59
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And I don’t truly understand all that’s involved and why but it’s all too often said the short action (mostly comparing .308 cartridges vs ‘06 cartridges) cartridges are more inherently accurate. I’ll take that every time too.
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Old August 29, 2018, 10:58 PM   #60
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Regardless how one might feel, from the same rifle (weight being the same) a 7mm-08 with a 140 grn bullet will have a milder recoil than a .308 with a 165 grns bullet every time. Apples to apples. And recoil, for some reason, has been an issue with what I wouldn’t have called an issue, and I’m not a big guy at 5’8” and 160.
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Old August 29, 2018, 11:40 PM   #61
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I personally H.A.T.E recoil... probably comes from having to hunt with 12ga slugs for so many years... so I might be overly sensitive... but I feel a significant difference in recoil between .308 and 7mm-08. It really should only be about 20%, all else being equal... but it feels like a lot to me.
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Old August 30, 2018, 07:05 AM   #62
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.270 Winchester.
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Old August 30, 2018, 08:52 AM   #63
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All of the listed cartridges will work just fine for your stated hunting situation. I'd personally lean towards either the .270 or the .30-06 though depending on what other hunts you may be going on in the future. If low recoil and a flat trajectory are your priority, go with the .30-06. If you foresee yourself hunting bigger animals like moose, then go with the .30-06.
http://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/270-vs-30-06/
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Old August 30, 2018, 10:50 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by The Big Game Hunter View Post
All of the listed cartridges will work just fine for your stated hunting situation. I'd personally lean towards either the .270 or the .30-06 though depending on what other hunts you may be going on in the future. If low recoil and a flat trajectory are your priority, go with the .30-06. If you foresee yourself hunting bigger animals like moose, then go with the .30-06.
http://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/270-vs-30-06/
Of the listed options, 30-06 hardly seems high on the list for flat trajectory. I would put it in 6th place at best. And the same for light recoil! Compared to the rest of the list, I would recommend at least 6 others for lighter recoil before the -06. Nothing against it, it's one of the greatest of all time, but not for those two criteria... not even close.
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Old August 30, 2018, 11:39 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Tallest
30-06 hardly seems high on the list for flat trajectory. I would put it in 6th place at best. And the same for light recoil! Compared to the rest of the list, I would recommend at least 6 others for lighter recoil before the -06. Nothing against it, it's one of the greatest of all time, but not for those two criteria... not even close.
No kidding... of the cartridges on that list, .30-06 has nearly the highest recoil and worst trajectory. Only the .338 will kick harder and only the .30-30 has appreciably worse trajectory... even though trajectory is all but irrelevant at 250 yards and less.
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Old September 4, 2018, 10:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Roamin_Wade View Post
You know, I don’t recall ever hearing about the 7mm-08 until about 15 years ago. What is another round that is comparable to the 7mm-08?
To reply and is MY choice but not if shooting factory ammo or depending on a store to supply such..........would be the 7x57mm Mauser.

A hand loaders dream in the longer action than the 7mm08 and literally has been doing it all since 1892.

Purely one for the handloader and not one found in lots of rifles........but still my choice and the following this round has in multiple forums and the number of articles that can be found on it........speaks volumes.

God Bless
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Old September 6, 2018, 09:43 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Roamin_Wade View Post
If you had to choose one round as the only round to hunt the lower 48 states with and whitetail deer, which would you choose and why? One dynamic of the question is elevation and possible distance shot. Let’s say 10’ stand and no further tha 250 yards.

1) 243 Win
2) 25-06
3) 6.5 mm Creedmoor
4) 270 Win
5) 7mm Rem Mag
6) 280 Rem
7) 30-30 Win
8) 308 Win
9) 30-06
10) 338 Win Mag

Don’t forget about the “why” in the question.

Thanks guys and gals...
For *general* hunting, I'd go with a 308 in a light rifle. But since you specified a stand you don't need a light rifle. If you don't need a light rifle, you don't need a 308. Since it's deer and no more than 250 yards, I'd go with a 270. Wide choice of rifles, ammo is available everywhere, plenty of power for deer, reasonable recoil.
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