I need advice on a Pistol Caliber Rifle

[Screwball]

If money isn’t an issue and you want something that nobody else has locally… D/I AR-45. They do .45 magazines that work in standard AR lowers; similar to Colt 9mm magazines.

https://www.maconarmory.com/

I have a few pistol caliber carbines, to include a Stern 9mm AR pistol (their system works great if you want a Glock or other pistol magazine setup on a standard lower) and Beretta CX4. I had a SUB-2000 Gen 2… which I liked after spending a bit of money to redo the trigger… but didn’t lose any sleep when I sold it. Stock… I’d pony up the money to do an MP5 variant.

I’m thinking about a .44 or .45 lever gun, threaded to run my Griffin Bushwhacker 46 on… but might go larger into something like .30-30 or .45-70. While I’m a big .44 Magnum fan, can’t go wrong with a rifle round.

[pete2]

I want a Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. If Ruger makes one I'll look at it. Hope they'll do away with the fake checkering and cross bolt safety. I may look at the Henry's.

[wachtelhund1]

YA! Ruger PCC is heavy. Look at the Aero Survival rifle, comes in a variety of pistol calibers; 10mm, 45, 357 Sig, 9mm and a bunch of others. Mine 9mm will shoot 2" to 3" groups at 100 yards with my Browning HP reloads, reduced PSI loads. I haven't tried tuning 9mm loads to it yet. I believe it might shoot better with heavier bullets and higher PSI loads, just I've got a 1,000 or more reloads.

[44 AMP]

None of the standard semi auto service pistol rounds (9mm .40,.45) are good performers on game or pests at 100yds. This isn't to say they won't work just that the bullets used are not optimal for that use. Revolver rounds from carbines tend to perform better, as they have a selection of bullets more suited to that task.

[Eddiejoe]

The LGS has a couple Ruger .357 bolt-actions.
Having been given the alternative of improving the AR that I used - more suitable ammunition, a different scope - I need to try it before I buy a new gun.

Most of all, I need to go back to basics.
I had not shot it in several months.
I failed to take it off safety prior to pulling the trigger.
I did not seat the magazine properly, so it did not feed a round for the second trigger pull.
My rifle had not been cleaned in some time, so by the time I seated the magazine properly, the bolt wouldn't close completely. Forward assist helped.
The battery died in the optic, so I had a black pinpoint dot inside a black circle, against a background of black and brown German Shepherd, and light was fading.
Five shots with two hits.
This is my failure:
I did not practice.
I did not maintain my equipment.
I did not adapt to my environment.

All of these failures are being addressed.

[101combatvet]

Originally Posted by Eddiejoe

Howdy folks. I had to put down a wounded animal at roughly 70 yards. I could get no closer for certain reasons. I had to use 5.56 to do it because that was my best option at the time, but my concern is that the bullets passed through him.
I am looking for something that I can use out to around 100 yards on coyotes and larger feral/pack dogs.

I have seen the Ruger PCC, but never held one, same for the Kel tec Sub 2000. I'm also not opposed to Hi-point.
I'd like to stay in 9mm or .45, because I already shoot those. If another caliber is more suitable, I'd like to hear about it.

I know this is the semi-auto forum, but I could also do a .357 lever gun.

My main concern is to dispatch them quickly and humanely. The one I shot recently took 2 rounds before dropping. I know I need practice as well, but that's another forum too.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.

At that range, you are better off with a rifle.

[rickyrick]

Yep, the OP already has a capable gun, but there’s never a bad reason to purchase something else.

[std7mag]

Hhmmmm,

Not one comment on the 30 caliber, M1 Carbine.
How lowly one must think of it.

[mehavey]

The Gentle Readers might want take a look at this classic
https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/TLGR/tlgr.html
(never repeatable in this day & age)

Thompson-LaGarde Tests

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by std7mag

Hhmmmm,

Not one comment on the 30 caliber, M1 Carbine.
How lowly one must think of it.

I was going to recommend it, but really for most predators in the lower 48, outside of big cats, there's little the .22 Mag can't handle at 75 yards.

[44 AMP]

I have never had a high opinion of the .30 Caliber M1 carbine as a game cartridge or the carbine it came in.

Fired from a carbine, the .357 Magnum outperforms the .30 carbine on game and has a huge advantage in versatility and availability.

The .30 M1 Carbine served adequately in its military role, but the carbine and its cartridge are far from the most efficient or effective for large or small game. Within its limitations, it will certainly work, but I would not recommend going out and buying one for anything other than its historical value as a milsurp. There are better, more practical (and cheaper) options available today.

[kymasabe]

I'm still thinking the AR is the way to go.
And, if ammo selection doesn't solve the problem, you can always build (or buy) another upper receiver in a different caliber (like .450 bushmaster or .300 blackout) if you want a slower round with more oomph.
Personally, I'd stick with .223/5.56, lots of good ammo choices out there for it.

[dwhite]

I'll be the one...

I just purchased, but have not taken possession of, a Hi-Point 4095. After reading lots of reviews and seeing lots of videos they're hard to beat for the price. They seem to be accurate, durable, and almost GLOCK reliable. All models
of these have the same reputation.

Bought mine from AIM Surplus for $239 plus shipping, tax, and insurance. Special price on the 4095TS.

[rickyrick]

I’ve always wanted to get one of those HiPoint carbines, but never got around to it.
The 9mm version because I have buckets full of 9mm

[73Bronco]

Originally Posted by dwhite

I'll be the one...

I just purchased, but have not taken possession of, a Hi-Point 4095. After reading lots of reviews and seeing lots of videos they're hard to beat for the price. They seem to be accurate, durable, and almost GLOCK reliable. All models
of these have the same reputation.

Bought mine from AIM Surplus for $239 plus shipping, tax, and insurance. Special price on the 4095TS.

I've heard the same thing. Those seem to be completely different animals than their handguns.

[TBM900]

Out of everything you mentioned I would go with a lever in 357
Largely because I'm a huge fan of them
There is nothing in NA that cannot easily be put down with a 357 Magnum long gun
One of my "do it all" knock around guns is a Ruger 77/357 which might be an option worth looking at

As for PCC's, one you didn't mention is the CX4 Storm
Probably one of the most underrated firearms of the last two decades
Although I have noticed they are starting to really get the attention and praise they deserve
Absolutely rock solid design in both form and function with impeccable reliability

While a bit funny looking, the form lends it itself to a very compact and familiar layout
An MRDS keeps it lightweight and would be very effective at the ranges you described
Would also work great for home and vehicle defense

Originally Posted by Eddiejoe

Howdy folks. I had to put down a wounded animal at roughly 70 yards. I could get no closer for certain reasons. I had to use 5.56 to do it because that was my best option at the time, but my concern is that the bullets passed through him.
I am looking for something that I can use out to around 100 yards on coyotes and larger feral/pack dogs.

I have seen the Ruger PCC, but never held one, same for the Kel tec Sub 2000. I'm also not opposed to Hi-point.
I'd like to stay in 9mm or .45, because I already shoot those. If another caliber is more suitable, I'd like to hear about it.

I know this is the semi-auto forum, but I could also do a .357 lever gun.

My main concern is to dispatch them quickly and humanely. The one I shot recently took 2 rounds before dropping. I know I need practice as well, but that's another forum too.

Thank you in advance for any advice you can provide.

[Eddiejoe]

I really appreciate all the advice! I got the new ammunition, and I hope to try it out next weekend.
I WILL be keeping an eye out for a good deal on a lever gun though!

[rickyrick]

With the 40gr vmax, it will be pretty gruesome on the little guys... just so you are prepared.

[FITASC]

I have the Ruger PCC in 9mm; even with its heft, your shoulder will still feel some recoil. With a red dot, it does 1-1.5" at 50 yards easily enough with a variety of 115 and 124 ammo.

[rc]

With 9mm you may get a 100 to 200 fps jump in velocity from a longer barrel. Not that much over a pistol but still more powerful than a 22 magnum. The 45 is so low pressure you might get 100 fps bump and a 22 short rainbow like trajectory. You'll be lobbing those big bullets out to 100 yards. With a 357 mag however, you can get about 400 to 500 fps bump. About 1750 to 1800 fps with 158 grain loads and over 2000 fps with 125 grain loads. Don't know if 357 would be more accurate than the 9mm option but more versatile, definitely. If you load it with 38 special you can drop things down to 950 to 1200fps depending on the load so you have about a 900 to 2000fps performance spread with a 357 mag chambering.. if you want to stick with 9mm in a carbine they are OK and will be fun and more accurate than firing rounds out of a pistol, but not much more powerful. If you want something that is much more potent and versatile in every way, I strongly suggest you consider the 357 lever gun as your best option.

[44 AMP]

. You'll be lobbing those big bullets out to 100 yards.

I had an Auto Ordnance M 1927 carbine, the semi auto Tommygun. mine was the deluxe one with the ladder rear sight. Using that sight, I had no trouble ringing the 200rd gong at our range, with anything I shot from it.

That gun would also make a 5 shot one hole rip at 25yds, if you could manage the long, heavy, "spongey" triggerpull.

Of course, you needed some strength just to hold it up... but it was capable of surprising accuracy. Not what I would choose for a pest rifle, though.

The biggest problem with pistol caliber carbines is the bullets. Many bullets, designed to expand at pistol velocities (and the lower than muzzle velocities at range) can be overdriven by the additional velocity imparted by the carbine length barrel. USUALLY it doesn't affect their accuracy, but it can have and effect on their performance in a game animal.

For best results you need to carefully match the bullet's design and construction to the velocity you will be driving it to.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by 73Bronco

I've heard the same thing. Those seem to be completely different animals than their handguns.

The rifles mask the ergonomic issues the pistols have. Even a mushy, stiff trigger doesn't seem as bad.

I want the 10mm.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I want the 10mm.

Be careful. Still a blowback and it does NOT have enough mass to keep the action closed. Very loose chamber to accommodate. Even mild 10mm loads are too much for their design.

[Grey_Lion]

Have you looked at the Ruger 19109 carbine? It's next on my buy list. https://www.ruger.com/products/pcCar...ets/19109.html

[Rob228]

I think its been posted here before on a similar topic. Someone did a PPsH project on one of the Ruger PCCs.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...ruger-pcsh-41/