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Old May 6, 2020, 02:11 PM   #51
Brit
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My Gen 4 Glock 19 has no serrations on the muzzle end of the slide, just the on the rear.
My Kydex holster OWB, due to a little snip off the outside top of this holster, allows it quite easy to feel the extractor sitting proud from the slide.
I can feel with a finger, the fact that a cartridge is chambered.

The pistol left holstered, no need to move the pistol whatsoever.

So many pistol carriers like to handle their pistols too much.
And as I have said before, George Housner, a friend of mine from Cape Town, did manage to blow the tip off his finger from his none shooting left hand, his carry pistol was a Colt 45 1911.
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Old May 7, 2020, 02:05 AM   #52
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Which pistols do you have that can’t be press checked?
Which ones can't be press checked? Just about everything that isn't a variant of the Browning tilt barrel system. So this includes all my .22s, pocket pistols (.32ACP, and .380) my 9mms (P.08 Luger and P.38) and I'd pay money (though not much) to watch the guy who thinks he can "press check" my Desert Eagles. You simply cannot "press check" a gun that isn't built to work that way, and I have quite a few of those. I also have several of the Colt/Browning tilt barrel types, so I know the difference.


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As we covered in this thread months ago, there are a number of professional users of firearms and training centers that do press checks. If you don’t want to do one fair enough. Saying people that do one shouldn’t be carrying a firearm seems a bit of a stretch, imo.
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I did not say people who do press checks shouldn't be carrying, I said I felt that people who could not remember if they loaded their firearms or not shouldn't be carrying or going in harm's way.
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Old May 7, 2020, 03:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
Which ones can't be press checked? Just about everything that isn't a variant of the Browning tilt barrel system. So this includes all my .22s, pocket pistols (.32ACP, and .380) my 9mms (P.08 Luger and P.38) and I'd pay money (though not much) to watch the guy who thinks he can "press check" my Desert Eagles. You simply cannot "press check" a gun that isn't built to work that way, and I have quite a few of those. I also have several of the Colt/Browning tilt barrel types, so I know the difference.
Thank you for the list. I figured it would have to be a non Browning tilting barrel design and was curious which you were talking about.


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Old May 7, 2020, 09:16 AM   #54
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Press check is to open the action slightly (without ejecting the cartridge) to visually check whether the chamber is loaded. I don't understand why it can't be done on certain designs. I can do that on any firearms, including a Luger.

As I said it before, George lost his finger digit because he shot it off.

-TL

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Old May 7, 2020, 12:09 PM   #55
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Press check is to open the action slightly (without ejecting the cartridge) to visually check whether the chamber is loaded.
A perfect description. It does not have to be done by pushing on the barrel bushing (IE “pressing”). There are a number of techniques that allow you to open the gun enough to SEE if there is a round chambered or not. It can even be done from the rear of the slide using the standard cocking serrations.

The point is to verify the status of the gun WITHOUT changing that status. It would be silly to lock the slide back to see if the gun is loaded IF i want a loaded gun. All i am wanting is to VERIFY its loaded.

Now, if i wanted to make sure a gun was UNLOADED, sure lock the slide back.

As an example, when i was working for the S.O. I would leave my duty gun in my locker at end of shift and put on my “off duty” gun. When i came to work, i’d get dressed and before i holstered my duty gun, i would “chamber check” it. Why? Because my LIFE, my partners LIFE and the LIVES of the citizens i served were at stake.

I still chamber check before i holster my CCW gun first time in the morning...why? Because it doesnt cost anything and now i KNOW, with 100% certainty i have a round in the chamber and a full mag i the gun. I dont leave life and death type things to chance.
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Old May 7, 2020, 12:30 PM   #56
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Press check is to open the action slightly (without ejecting the cartridge) to visually check whether the chamber is loaded. I don't understand why it can't be done on certain designs. I can do that on any firearms, including a Luger.
No, you can't do it on any firearm, only certain ones. You can do a check on any firearm by as you correctly describe, slightly opening the action. but you can only do a PRESS check on Colt/Browning pattern tilt barrel guns where the slide extends beyond the frame and gives you something to press.
(there may be some designs not based on the tilt barrel system that allow a press check, but I can't think of any off the top of my head)

PRESS in Press check refers to pressing the muzzle end of the slide back slightly in order to open the action to check for a loaded chamber. It refers to a specific method of opening the action, (which only works with certain designs) it is not a general term for opening the action.

You could describe the check as a "pull check" because some type of pull opens the action of every semi auto, but we don't normally bother using the word "pull". You pull the toggle of a Luger, you pull the bolt of a Ruger Mk I, you pull the slide of a Desert Eagle. You pull the slide of a 1911A1, or you can press the muzzle end of the slide of a 1911A1 to do the check.

The OP was about doing that, pressing the front end of the slide, and the risks involved. And, yes, George shot his finger off!
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Old May 7, 2020, 12:42 PM   #57
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We are playing with words here, are we not? The idea of the check is just that; to verify the chamber is loaded. If it has to be pressing, what does it have to do with the front serration?

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Old May 7, 2020, 01:09 PM   #58
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Finger shortener.

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Originally Posted by tangolima View Post
We are playing with words here, are we not? The idea of the check is just that; to verify the chamber is loaded. If it has to be pressing, what does it have to do with the front serration?

-TL

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I would agree. I think we’re arguing semantics. If the point is semantics matter fair enough. When I think press check I don’t think of pressing on the muzzle end of the pistol. I think of retracting the slide slightly to confirm the presence of a cartridge (this can be done with front or rear serrations and I usually use rear, though with an optic mounted it can be easier to use front if present). If the point is I should call that a pull check then, okay.


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Old May 7, 2020, 01:17 PM   #59
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We are playing with words here, but words (and terms) matter.

First, doing the check doesn't have to be a press check, guns that allow you to do a press check also allow the check to be done other ways.

The assertion was made that the forward slide serrations were put there in order to do a press check. I believe this is incorrect, and I've explained why.

I'm not questioning the idea of checking the chamber, I'm saying a PRESS CHECK is ONE specific method of doing it that can only be done on certain guns.

Using the term "press check" to cover ALL methods of checking the chamber is incorrect, and inaccurate.
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Old May 7, 2020, 01:51 PM   #60
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Well, a technique that might blow the end of my finger off no matter what tacti-cool name it has seems slightly disadvantageous to “retracting the slide and looking for brass by pulling”

The front end of the gun thingy shouldn’t be near the hand thingy nor even close... that’s just me but I am tacti-uncool.

No dig at .44Amp who I believe explained the distinction to my satisfaction and I also believe won’t ever do a “George”.
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Old May 7, 2020, 02:21 PM   #61
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I think the term to use is “Chamber check”. That way no matter the technique, no matter the weapon system, the term is correct.
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Old May 8, 2020, 12:49 AM   #62
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Yup. You can do a "chamber check" on any autopistol, but only some allow a "press check".

The difference is in where your fingers are relative to the muzzle during the operation, and given that's the entire point of the thread, that difference is both completely relevant and more than just semantics.
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Old May 8, 2020, 01:02 AM   #63
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Finger shortener.

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Originally Posted by JohnKSa View Post
Yup. You can do a "chamber check" on any autopistol, but only some allow a "press check".

The difference is in where your fingers are relative to the muzzle during the operation, and given that's the entire point of the thread, that difference is both completely relevant and more than just semantics.

I can see that, but then the very first post itself is incorrect in its phrasing. It bemoans the addition of front slide serrations as their presence, seemingly according to Brit, is to encourage people to do a “press check”, his wording. If the argument is that a press check is a very specific way to perform a chamber check, then front slide serrations have nothing to do with “press checks” (as others pointed out). Even the “press check” as it is described in the first post doesn’t seem to match the description of pressing from the front of the slide, but of pulling the slide rearward. So then the question becomes which is more important for the discussion, the term that the OP uses or the manner in which he describes the action? I can accept that both matter, in which case we all should have corrected the phrasing months ago.


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Old May 8, 2020, 08:57 AM   #64
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Here is my dilemma...

My full size EDC L9-A1's have two tactile LCI's.
And three visual LCI's including a brass window.

My CCW 380EZ's have one tactile LCI.
And two visual LCI's including a brass window.

My question...
Can I still "press check" in front of my friends so I too can feel cool?
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Old May 8, 2020, 09:13 AM   #65
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Here is my dilemma...

My full size EDC L9-A1's have two tactile LCI's.
And three visual LCI's including a brass window.

My CCW 380EZ's have one tactile LCI.
And two visual LCI's including a brass window.

My question...
Can I still "press check" in front of my friends so I too can feel cool?

You can do whatever you want.


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Old May 8, 2020, 12:47 PM   #66
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I can accept that both matter, in which case we all should have corrected the phrasing months ago.
Which is why I posted on a thread that had been inactive for a few months. I missed it when it was started, and after reading through it now, just couldn't let some of the errors stand uncorrected.

I think we're pretty much on the same page now, about what a press check is, the risks, and how front slide serrations have nothing to do with a press check. Hopefully anyone coming along later and reading the thread will leave knowing the correct information.
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Old May 9, 2020, 07:40 AM   #67
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Sitting in front of my Lap Top, in my ratty old wool mix dressing gown, G19 on the bedside table behind me. Nothing to check, it is always fully loaded.
16 of 147g Federal HST. And a spare G17 mag also fully loaded near it. Till dressed.

But when visiting the Grandkids, 8 and 9 YOA, wild Harrys! I clear the breech prior to entering the playpen! Just in case.

What a lovely feeling, being able to holster a pistol, and drive away from home!
Another Just in case situation.
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Old May 11, 2020, 11:30 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by AK103K View Post
It amazes me sometimes at how silly some people can get about things. They worry endlessly and go overboard about the minutia of safety, and supposed violations of it, yet very often, are barely competent with the guns that have and carry.
You are absolutely right, and it doesn't take long to notice this if you spend any amount of time dealing with shooters. Go to youtube and see comments that berate disassembly videos for not checking the chamber while on screen. It's the shooter's version of "virtue signaling" and means about the same thing as virtue signaling on a university campus -- it's a cheap beg for attention/relevancy, originating from the bottom of the barrel. That's why you notice a certain pattern in the people who tend to do it.
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Old May 11, 2020, 12:40 PM   #69
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Go to youtube and see comments that berate disassembly videos for not checking the chamber while on screen.
I love the comments that berate someone for pointing the gun at the camera. Claiming the viewer was “flagged”. Most youtube channels are filmed with a camera on a tripod, not a live camera man.
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Old May 12, 2020, 06:38 AM   #70
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I wonder how many people have inadvertently "Killed a camera?"

The past indiscrete action of a federal officer. Demonstrating something to the class of young students? And shot himself in the leg?

And then continued to try to explain, whatever he was explaining in the first place?
Those children wanted out!
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Old May 13, 2020, 12:34 PM   #71
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“I am the only one professional enough, that I know of, to carry this Glock Fo-Tay”

BANG!

Gotta be one of the best viral videos ever.
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Old May 22, 2020, 07:50 PM   #72
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Checking the status of the chamber by retracting the slide a bit has been around for as long and pistols with slides have been. There are and have been a number of methods for doing that. All of them fell under the term "press check" a good number of decades past. It does not mean that a actual press needs to be a part of the action, especially when it's more of a pull. Press check does not mean, nor is limited to one method alone.

There is no variation of it that encourages a shooter to put their digit in front of the muzzle at the same time they put a finger on the trigger. .

It's interesting to note that the shooter who came up with the 4 basic rules of handgun safety also advocated and taught the press check as a regular part of firearms safety.

I learned to press check from GIs back from Korea and Vietnam. My uncle who was in the Navy during WWII, also showed me that.

Someone said:

Quote:
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I did not say people who do press checks shouldn't be carrying, I said I felt that people who could not remember if they loaded their firearms or not shouldn't be carrying or going in harm's way.
You may not recall that a good many experienced shooters have had unintended discharges. Bill Jordan had a well known instance in a So. California station. He did so while showing a third officer a technique with his gun and talking away. He took his loaded weapon from his desk drawer, emptied it, did the technique, reloaded it and put it back in the drawer. A bit later he went for another demonstration. The gun was loaded and he put a bullet through the wall killing a fellow officer on the other side. Because he was deep in discussion he forgot to check the status of his weapon. A good man died.

So checking the status of one's weapon is a very good habit to develop and maintain. So I was taught in the 1970s and so the men who trained me were taught going back in a long line.

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Old Yesterday, 12:29 AM   #73
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There is no variation of it that encourages a shooter to put their digit in front of the muzzle at the same time they put a finger on the trigger.
One press-check method places one or more fingers on the muzzle of the slide (not directly over the muzzle--that wouldn't work) and with the thumb in the triggerguard, though not on the trigger.

Of course, for the slide to be retracted, the thumb safety of a 1911 must be off, and it's common to see the press check done with the strong hand holding the gun in a firing grip and probably depressing the grip safety.

Not exactly ideal from a safety standpoint for more than one reason, none of which should really need to be explained.
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You may not recall that a good many experienced shooters have had unintended discharges.
Press checks (or similar manipulations) are not recommended as a way to clear a firearm.

To clear a semi-auto pistol, drop the mag, lock back the slide, then visually and preferably also manually check the chamber.
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So checking the status of one's weapon is a very good habit to develop and maintain.
As long as it is being done with purpose and done safely, it doesn't hurt to check the status of one's weapons. Needless manipulation of a loaded firearm that is "on duty" is asking for trouble--that's what I mean when I say it needs to be done "with purpose" as opposed to being done for show or as some kind of an OCD "twitch".

For example, press-checking at the range is pretty pointless. You just loaded the gun, you don't really need to partially open the slide to refresh your memory about what happened a second ago. If you really wonder if a round fed, load the chamber from a another mag for your first round and check it to see if it's down a round before you put the full one in.

As far as checking to verify a gun is empty, that should be done any time an "off duty" gun is handled--and should be done with a more thorough and foolproof technique than press-checking.
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Old Yesterday, 10:37 AM   #74
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I meant to mention that Jordan's error was with a revolver. The specific error was in not checking the status of his gun when he went to show it the second time.

Press checks, also called pinch checks and status checks, are not meant for unloading a gun, or as a step in field stripping. They are intended for checking the status of the gun.

The method for press checking that is mentioned earlier (as not being all that good) is also one of the oldest, likely the second oldest, maybe. It has the shooter holding the gun in the strong hand. Hammer cocked. The thumb of the off hand is placed in the trigger guard while the index finger of the same hand is placed over the recoil plug just below the muzzle. The hand is squeezed and the slide retracts enough to see and touch the round in the chamber. This can be done one handed.

The above method fell out of favor once more pistols with full length guide rods appeared the U.S. in the post war period. The FLGR became popular in the 1911 about 20-25 or so years ago.

In Chuck Taylor's book Combat Handgunnery 4th edition (1997) he provides pics of the above method and one alternate method, pg. 97.

I figure the original method was to just retract the slide a bit, using both hands.

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Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM   #75
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The above method fell out of favor once more pistols with full length guide rods appeared the U.S. in the post war period.
It won't work with FLGR guns so it makes sense that it would be less commonly used as FLGR guns became more prevalent. Also, it has been deprecated by some trainers because of the safety problems it presents.

There are certainly much safer methods for performing press checks. For example:

There's no need to have a digit in the trigger guard.
There's no need to hold the gun so that the grip safety is depressed.
There's no need to put a finger on the muzzle of the gun.

Checking the status of a gun can be done safely, but even then, it shouldn't be done more than is necessary for a couple of reasons.

1. Unholstering a loaded gun and handling it always presents the possibility of an unintentional discharge, however small.

2. Pulling the slide of a semi-auto out of battery and then closing it again is not how the gun is designed to operate. It's designed to operate by having the slide close from the fully (or nearly fully) retracted position. This helps insure that there is sufficient slide energy to chamber the round and put the gun fully into battery. Opening the cylinder on a revolver is obviously much less of an issue.

My recommendation is that gun owners who feel that it is necessary to frequently verify that their carry gun is loaded should purchase a firearm equipped with a prominent loaded chamber indicator--ideally one that can be checked with the firearm holstered.
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