38 spcl crimp die

[Nathan]

What are you using for a crimp die for 38 spcl? I have used a Lee Factory Crimp carbide. I don’t like that. I can use my seat/crimp die, but I like 2 step crimping. I could buy a taper crimp die which is better for plated, but not ideal for cast.

My remaining option for a separate crimp die is to order a custom Lee collet crimp die and send them sample cases….like 38 spcl is somehow custom!

Your thoughts?

[Recycled bullet]

I re-adjust my seat/crimp die between seating and crimping as needed.

It's harder than it sounds but easier than you think.

It's a 30 second adjustment in my Lee hand press.

If you have a progressive purchase another die or die set, adjust , and carry on.

I agree with you the lee carbide crimp ring dies are awful.

IF Lee made a collet crimper for 38 special THEN would buy it.

Seating and crimping as separate steps is good I agree on that as well.

Recently i have started using the rcbs 38/357 roll crimp die set with my lee hand press. They are better than the lee dies. Resize deprime is smoother. Expander is stepped, m style or equivalent with bell. Seating crimping die is better too with replaceable seating stems to better fit different bullets types and profiles.

[Nathan]

IF Lee made a collet crimper for 38 special THEN would buy it.

That’s the thing. They will, but it is $30 and they want me to send in cases! I might do it!

[Recycled bullet]

Do it and please report how does it perform.

They told me over the telephone that 38 special is too short and the collet fingers would not be able to function.

Can you share the lee number for the custom collet die?

[mikejonestkd]

I use Lee carbide dies for almost all of my handgun reloading. I seat and crimp using two dies. I haven't had any issues using the carbide crimp die before.
I load lead bullets probably 90% of the time, and it works well for me.

Can you elaborate as to what exactly isn't working well for you?

[44 AMP]

I don't use Lee dies much, just where in the seater /crimper die is the carbide??

I do have "carbide" die sets from other makers, and the carbide is ALWAYS in the sizer die, and no where else. The die set is marked and sold as a "carbide die set" but the only carbide die is the sizer die. The others are just regular steel.

You may be using the seater die from a carbide die set, but I doubt the die has a carbide insert in it.

For seating and crimping .38 Specials, I use the same Lyman seater die I've been using since 1973. Works just fine, and I see no point to screwing around with anything else.

[rc]

Nathan, I have a Lee factory crimp die but I only have needed it for crimping into plated bullets without a crimp groove. If you have a 9mm or 38 super die set you could taper crimp with the seater die. I use a regular RCBS roll crimp factory seat/crimp die for loading 38 and 357 mag. It works fine for jacketed bullets with crimp groove or cast with crimp groove as long as you adjust the die for the specific bullet you are loading. You can't use a generic setting like you can with auto pistols and expect things to work out fine. I suspect your o lock rings are causing you problems as they allow settings to back out under use. I changed my Lee lock rings on their factory crimp die body with RCBS rings that lock in place.

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

I don't use Lee dies much, just where in the seater /crimper die is the carbide??



I do have "carbide" die sets from other makers, and the carbide is ALWAYS in the sizer die, and no where else. The die set is marked and sold as a "carbide die set" but the only carbide die is the sizer die. The others are just regular steel.



You may be using the seater die from a carbide die set, but I doubt the die has a carbide insert in it.



For seating and crimping .38 Specials, I use the same Lyman seater die I've been using since 1973. Works just fine, and I see no point to screwing around with anything else.

Lee has an optional 4th die for hand gun die sets.

It is a size die for after the bullet is seated.

It is supposed to make the post sized ammunition fit the gun regardless how many beginner mistakes are made with assembly.
It squeezed cast bullets too small, and ruined accuracy and leaded my barrel.

It exists because reading and understanding aka learning how to adjust a crimp die is too difficult for some people. I'm glad I snapped out of it years ago.

My learning process was expedited by disassembling my dies and inspecting inside with a flashlight, then slowly building understanding.

[BJung]

With 6 test loads each, I compared 38-148gr WC and 2.8gr BE with the flare removed and 1/2 turn for a light crimp using an RCBS die; and crimp using FCD. The PC bullet was sized to .358". Best groups were with Remington brass and the flare just removed. There was no noticeable improvement using the FCD to me.

[jetinteriorguy]

I use a Lee FCD on my .38sp with both coated and copper plated bullets all the time and no issues. I’ve ordered a custom Collet Crimp die for my .41mag but they never required me to send in any brass, kind of curious why they require this for a .38sp. It’s not like it’s some kind of odd caliber requiring some strange combination of dimensions.

[Jim Watson]

My thought is that when I was loading on a single stage, I seated and crimped in the same step by choosing revolver bullets with a proper crimp groove.

Now on a progressive, there is no reason not to separate the steps. I have a roll crimp die for grooved or cannelured bullets, a taper crimp die for smooth sided bullets. No need for a special order collet die.

Lee does not appear to make a roll crimp die, the cheapest approach would be to get an extra seating die and back off the plug to crimp only. Other brand crimp dies are much more expensive.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102134525?pid=597779

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016834814?pid=469800

[jetinteriorguy]

The nice thing about the Lee collet die is it’s less dependent on case length to still be effective. Plus it’s very easy to adjust for very light to fairly heavy crimp. It’s also much easier on the case mouth compared to a roll crimp. But, while all this is nice it’s not needed as much with a .38sp as compared to magnums. I’ve used .38sp in my tube fed lever action using the FCD with a good crimp on coated and plated bullets with no set back and no cutting through the coating/plating. The trick is to load up a dummy round and then extract them using an inertia type puller to test ahead of time. I first adjust the crimp so I can’t move a bullet when pushing it hard into the edge of my work bench. Then I pull it to see if it cuts through the plating. Then I keep increasing the crimp until it cuts through. At this point I’ll back off for maximum hold while maintaining the integrity of the bullet. This is mainly for any I would shoot in my lever, revolver wise it’s a little less critical.

[Nathan]

Can you share the lee number for the custom collet die?

#90595
https://leeprecision.com/custom-factory-crimp-die

They are 30.00 plus shipping
Current lead time is 6 weeks.
We will need:
Dummy cartridge (a projectile seated in an empty fired and sized case). The dummy cartridge is for testing purposes, so make sure it is within normal dimensional tolerances.

That is what they sent me.

[Recycled bullet]

Originally Posted by Nathan

That is what they sent me.

38 special is too short. Have you tried assembling with 357 brass? I own a 357 collet crimper. It does work. With heavy crimps it leaves stab crimp marks on the case mouths. Most of my 357 handloads utilize a heavy crimp, so my preference is still the roll crimper so I use the rcbs seat crimper readjusted.

[Nick_C_S]

Here's just one guy's experience from 39 years, 7 months loading 38 Special - some 100K rounds of many many types . . .

What are you using for a crimp die for 38 spcl?

I use an RCBS taper crimp die and a Lee FCD - depending on the application.

I have used a Lee Factory Crimp carbide. I don’t like that.

I'm curious why not? I've been using one for years with excellent results.

I can use my seat/crimp die, but I like 2 step crimping.

Two step seat/crimp is definitely the preferred method. That's not to say that a single step seat-&-crimp shouldn't be performed. Many do it with good results as far as they are concerned.

I could buy a taper crimp die which is better for plated, but not ideal for cast.

If you load a lot of plated bullets (like me), then you should really consider a taper crimp die. It's one of the best moves I ever made for loading 38 Special. Not only do I use it for all my plated bullets, but I also use it for many cast loadings too. Cast (or swaged) bullets are usually .358" and typically have a lot of surface bearing on the case (think 158 SWC's, or 148 WC's). That, coupled with the generally fast, easily ignited propellants used, makes taper crimping a highly viable option for lead bullets - preferred, actually, IMO. This type of cast ammo does not need a roll crimp. A taper crimp is plenty to hold the bullet. I consider roll crimping to be superfluous with this type of ammo. The big advantage here is case life. Taper crimped cases last a LOT longer than roll crimped cases - pretty much forever, as far as I can tell.

I only roll crimp my jacketed 38 Special ammo (in which case, it'll be a +P loading). And even then, the roll crimp is medium - nothing like the crimp used on a full-house 357 Mag using gobbs of slow powder.

Redding makes a Profile Crimp Die that can be set to taper or roll. Many loaders like this die. I have one, actually. But have never tested it. It's unused in its case. I guess I'll try it one day; but, I rather see it as a solution in search of a problem, at my load bench anyway. I'm not sure why (or when ) I bought it.

[gwpercle]

Use the bullet seating/crimping die that came with your standard die set ... Die #1 to seart the bullet but adjusted to apply NO Crimp .
Purchase a second seat / crimp die #2 ... remove and keep the seating stem as a back-up , and use this die as your dedicated roll crimp die .
Seat the bullets with die #1 (no crimp)
Crimp the bullets with die #2 (no seating)
There you go ... doing the bullet Two Step !
Gary

[44 AMP]

I do revolver rounds, seating and roll crimping, in one step. Been doing it that way for 51 years this year, I see no reason to use a separate step for roll crimping.

I do use a separate die for taper crimping rounds that need that.

And, personal opinion only, I think a separate die that "fixes" rounds so they chamber is just an excuse for not loading them correctly in the first place.

I don't have one of those dies, never needed one, don't see the point for me.

[AlaskaMike]

You might look at the Redding profile crimp die.

I use them with every revolver cartridge I handload for, and have had great success with them.

[Shadow9mm]

from what I have heard the Redding profile crimp die is the best. I don't load 38/357 anymore. My Hornady dies gave me an acceptable crimp, but I had to do it separate from seating in some cases, depending on bullet profile.

[Nathan]

End result….they told me that the collet crimp die cannot be made. So, I ordered their regular seating die which has some kind of 2 stage crimp that is a taper crimp that ends in a roll crimp if set far enough!

[Metal god]

Not only do I use it for all my plated bullets, but I also use it for many cast loadings too. Cast (or swaged) bullets are usually .358" and typically have a lot of surface bearing on the case (think 158 SWC's, or 148 WC's). That, coupled with the generally fast, easily ignited propellants used, makes taper crimping a highly viable option for lead bullets - preferred, actually,

Why ? I went to the collet crimp on my 38/357 , 44 spl/mag , 223 , 308 , 30-30 .... hmm I think if they make it for and I load it , I collet crimp it I love those things , they can crimp anything crimp groove or not Your above statement and much more experience loading these cartridges makes me now think I may be making some sort of mistake ????? So seriously why is the taper crimp more better

[jetinteriorguy]

This will work, I think you’ll find just the taper crimp is more than sufficient for any .38sp load. One thing, no matter what style of crimping you do the simplest thing you can do is trim all your brass to the same length for a consistent crimp. For myself I just measure a bunch of my brass after sizing to get an idea of a good length to trim to in order to utilize as many cases as possible. Then I’ll set my trimmer and keep any that are at this length +- .003”. If shorter than this I just separate them for possible later use and of course if they are longer than this parameter I trim them. This amount of variance seems to work fine for consistent crimping hold.

[Nick_C_S]

Me:

. . . taper crimping a highly viable option for lead bullets - preferred, actually, IMO.

Metal god:

Why ? I went to the collet crimp on my 38/357 . . .

Well I wasn't comparing a taper crimp die to a collet crimp die. I was comparing a taper crimp die to a roll crimp die. My only experience with collet crimp dies is with 223 Rem (and yes, it works great with 223). I didn't even know that there's such a thing as a collet crimp die for 38 Special.

My post was just the sharing of my experience. I've been taper crimping many types of 38 Special ammo for about 10 years now. For me, it was a great move. I am quite pleased with the consistent performance of my 38 Special ammo. I hope our OP and others find their sweet spot too - however it is achieved.

[armoredman]

I haven't been loading 38 as long as some here, only about 15 years, but I've been using the Lee dies the whole time, and I have the seating die adjusted to seat and crimp. The Lee FCD is NOT a crimp as you would find on a traditional crimp setup, i.e., it isn't going to roll crimp anything, but it will squeeze the whole thing down in a carbide sizing ring to ensure easy loading/chambering. While this works well in 9mm with some jacketed bullets, I never use it with cast bullets, and in 38 Special/357 Mag I just never seem to need it. Did 50 357 with 158gr XTPs last night, and every one of them passed through the Lee FCD without "bumping the sides".

[Don P]

9 mm crimp die will work. I use 9 mm dies for my 38 short colt reloading with the exception of the de-priming/sizing die which is a 38 spl die