Need a powder suggestion

charleym3 · September 2, 2011, 08:44 PM

I'm currently using 4.0grns of Titegroup as my standard powder for 38. It takes up about 20% of the case volume. I'm looking for a powder for 38 Special that will take up more of the case. I'm looking for somewhere around 80-90% density while still producing 875-900 fps with a 125grn jacketed bullet.

I tried Trailboss, but while it filled the case, velocity was erratic and it didn't make the power floor for IDPA. It was averaging in the mid 700s and didn't meter well in my Dillon.

Suggestions?

T. O'Heir · September 2, 2011, 08:52 PM

Hi. The velocities are more important than filling the case. A larger grained powder is just that.
4.0 of Titegroup is below minimum for a 125 grain bullet too.
"...velocity was erratic..." Usually indicates a non-uniform powder charge.

mikejonestkd · September 2, 2011, 08:59 PM

I have found trail boss to be pretty consistent, as long as you don't get too close to filling the case and compressing it, which is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer.

There are many powders that will get you the velocity that you are looking for, and i would not be too concerned about filling the case. The 38 special was designed for black powder, so there's not really any smokeless powder that will get the fill % that you are looking for without blowing up the gun.

zxcvbob · September 2, 2011, 09:05 PM

Green Dot, Bullseye, or Unique, although the load density will be 40 to 50%, not 90%. You can get to about 60% density with Herco, but it burns pretty slow for that light a bullet.

Then there's always black powder...

TXGunNut · September 2, 2011, 09:28 PM

.38 Special traces it's lineage back to BP powders but a reaonable charge might be a bit more than OP is looking for, zxcvbob. I like the way you think, tho.

BP 38 cases had less volume, held less BP than a modern .38 case could. .38 Special is a fine cartridge but the best smokeless powder charges occupy less than a third of the case under OP's choice of bullet, in some cases 20%. 231 and BE are huge favorites for this cartridge but from most angles you can't tell a charged case from an empty one.

mehavey · September 2, 2011, 09:52 PM

QuickLoad would suggest Tin Star as the best combination of case fill/burn and the velocity desired for 38sp/125gr jacketed.
But Vihtavuori only lists cowboy action/lead bullet loads.

Does anyone have experience with it and jacketed?

Code:

         Type        	 wt (gr)  fill(%) vel(fps) Pmax(psi) Burn(%)
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star    5.5     59     926     14,875     100

zxcvbob · September 2, 2011, 09:57 PM

Titegroup is the worst that I've found. You can hardly see it even if you shine a light in the case. Any of the smokeless powders I mentioned will be a big improvement. 231 is probably a big improvement, I don't know; I haven't tried that one yet. Heck, anything should be a big improvement.

(can you tell I don't like TG?)

jim8115 · September 2, 2011, 10:18 PM

I use Unique and W231 in all of my 38 loads

GP100man · September 2, 2011, 10:33 PM

I use CLAYS it occupys bout 30% but it`s the least position sensitive powder I`ve found !!!

CLAYS UNIVERSAL is closer to unique & meters better !!!

But then again , anything metters better than unique !!!!

Rifletom · September 2, 2011, 11:13 PM

Universal is good!
Clays is real gooood!
But, lets not bad mouth Unique now, that is a standard for .38spl!

charleym3 · September 3, 2011, 12:03 AM

I've gotten good service from TG in 9mm, 38, and 45. I was just after a higher case fill. Yes I know that 4.0 grns is under minimum for a 125 grn jacketed bullet, but I didn't need the 945fps that 4.3 generates. Hey, .3grns of powder adds up when I'm loading thousands of rounds.

I've still got a good bit of trail boss and some 125 grn Laser cast slugs. I've also got nearly a pound of unique. Better load it before it goes stale.

I don't favor W231 because of the smoke.

For that matter, I've got some pyrodex too. Hmmmm. I shoot stainless guns, what if...

Time for bed. I have a gun to sell tomorrow morning.

**Mike Irwin** · September 3, 2011, 12:06 AM

'I'm looking for somewhere around 80-90% density while still producing 875-900 fps with a 125grn jacketed bullet."

You're not going to find one that will give you that loading density.

Trail Boss is the closest you will come, and I believe that it's still only for lead bullets with handguns.

zxcvbob · September 3, 2011, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Hey, .3grns of powder adds up when I'm loading thousands of rounds.

In that case, you want to use Alliant Promo. Use Red Dot load data.

September 2, 2011, 08:44 PM	#1
charleym3 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Central NC Posts: 538	Need a powder suggestion I'm currently using 4.0grns of Titegroup as my standard powder for 38. It takes up about 20% of the case volume. I'm looking for a powder for 38 Special that will take up more of the case. I'm looking for somewhere around 80-90% density while still producing 875-900 fps with a 125grn jacketed bullet. I tried Trailboss, but while it filled the case, velocity was erratic and it didn't make the power floor for IDPA. It was averaging in the mid 700s and didn't meter well in my Dillon. Suggestions? __________________ -When the need is great enough, limitations are meaningless. -Small helpings of experience become wisdom, while large servings become bitterness and despair. -I was once described as self-righteous and patronizing! I pointed out that I am actually arrogant & condescending.

September 2, 2011, 08:52 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Hi. The velocities are more important than filling the case. A larger grained powder is just that. 4.0 of Titegroup is below minimum for a 125 grain bullet too. "...velocity was erratic..." Usually indicates a non-uniform powder charge. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 2, 2011, 08:59 PM	#3
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	I have found trail boss to be pretty consistent, as long as you don't get too close to filling the case and compressing it, which is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer. There are many powders that will get you the velocity that you are looking for, and i would not be too concerned about filling the case. The 38 special was designed for black powder, so there's not really any smokeless powder that will get the fill % that you are looking for without blowing up the gun. __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

September 2, 2011, 09:28 PM	#5
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	.38 Special traces it's lineage back to BP powders but a reaonable charge might be a bit more than OP is looking for, zxcvbob. I like the way you think, tho. BP 38 cases had less volume, held less BP than a modern .38 case could. .38 Special is a fine cartridge but the best smokeless powder charges occupy less than a third of the case under OP's choice of bullet, in some cases 20%. 231 and BE are huge favorites for this cartridge but from most angles you can't tell a charged case from an empty one. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

September 2, 2011, 09:52 PM	#6
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,903	QuickLoad would suggest Tin Star as the best combination of case fill/burn and the velocity desired for 38sp/125gr jacketed. But Vihtavuori only lists cowboy action/lead bullet loads. Does anyone have experience with it and jacketed? Code: Type wt (gr) fill(%) vel(fps) Pmax(psi) Burn(%) Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 5.5 59 926 14,875 100 Last edited by mehavey; September 2, 2011 at 09:59 PM.

September 2, 2011, 09:05 PM	#4
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Green Dot, Bullseye, or Unique, although the load density will be 40 to 50%, not 90%. You can get to about 60% density with Herco, but it burns pretty slow for that light a bullet. Then there's always black powder...

September 2, 2011, 09:57 PM	#7
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Titegroup is the worst that I've found. You can hardly see it even if you shine a light in the case. Any of the smokeless powders I mentioned will be a big improvement. 231 is probably a big improvement, I don't know; I haven't tried that one yet. Heck, anything should be a big improvement. (can you tell I don't like TG?) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

September 2, 2011, 10:18 PM	#8
jim8115 Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2011 Location: Arkansas Posts: 229	I use Unique and W231 in all of my 38 loads

September 2, 2011, 10:33 PM	#9
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	I use CLAYS it occupys bout 30% but it`s the least position sensitive powder I`ve found !!! CLAYS UNIVERSAL is closer to unique & meters better !!! But then again , anything metters better than unique !!!! __________________ GP100man

September 2, 2011, 11:13 PM	#10
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	Universal is good! Clays is real gooood! But, lets not bad mouth Unique now, that is a standard for .38spl!

September 3, 2011, 12:03 AM	#11
charleym3 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Central NC Posts: 538	I've gotten good service from TG in 9mm, 38, and 45. I was just after a higher case fill. Yes I know that 4.0 grns is under minimum for a 125 grn jacketed bullet, but I didn't need the 945fps that 4.3 generates. Hey, .3grns of powder adds up when I'm loading thousands of rounds. I've still got a good bit of trail boss and some 125 grn Laser cast slugs. I've also got nearly a pound of unique. Better load it before it goes stale. I don't favor W231 because of the smoke. For that matter, I've got some pyrodex too. Hmmmm. I shoot stainless guns, what if... Time for bed. I have a gun to sell tomorrow morning. __________________ -When the need is great enough, limitations are meaningless. -Small helpings of experience become wisdom, while large servings become bitterness and despair. -I was once described as self-righteous and patronizing! I pointed out that I am actually arrogant & condescending.

September 3, 2011, 12:06 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	'I'm looking for somewhere around 80-90% density while still producing 875-900 fps with a 125grn jacketed bullet." You're not going to find one that will give you that loading density. Trail Boss is the closest you will come, and I believe that it's still only for lead bullets with handguns. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.