Follow up: YouTube Weenies vs .357 Magnum

[Nanuk]

You are missing my point entirely. I'm just saying that some .38 special +P can be hotter than some .357 so it depends on the particular load you are using. It goes all the way back to the OP asking why some choose to shoot .38 in a .357 magnum revolver.

You are absolutely correct. I really love people that cherry pick rounds like that and say " See the 357 is no better than the 38".

[Nanuk]

A lot of 357 snubbies have 2.5" barrels. I'd love to see the 357 numbers in a 2" vs 2.5" barrel. I'd bet there is a real difference.

I had limited use of a chrony a few years ago. WW 125 grain magnums from my 3" model 13 run 1350 fps and from my 1 7/8" 360-1 they run 1200 fps. Also be aware that barrels affect velocity too, so those numbers may not be accurate for another gun.

[briandg]

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/index.html

[Big Motor]

I am a .357 fan myself, I like the .38, but I love the .357 Magnum. I think that guns like the SP-101, make fine self defense weapons. And the Speed Six 4" .357, was a favored revolver of mine.

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by Sturmpanzer

...the takeaway is that the .357 is superior to the .38 in both 2 and 4 inch barrels. ]

I doubt if anyone here will debate that. Kinda was the whole reason the .357 was developed from the .38. Cops needed something more powerful. Doesn't mean the .38 wasn't, or still isn't, adequate for many scenarios. Don't mean folks that shoot .38 are a bunch of weenies. I shoot everything from .380 to .460 from handguns. Does shooting .380 make me a weenie? Does shooting .460 make me mean and macho like you? Is one that stops shooting at .357, a bigger weenie than someone who stops at .460?

A .38 is my EDC. I could carry more,(sometimes do, a 1911) but don't feel I need to. I don't look down at those who carry .380 or 9mm, nor do I get on my knees and bow to those than those who EDC something bigger. You need to get over yourself.

[DWFan]

I will stick with the Barnes 140gr VOR-TX ammo, thank you. Actually this is a modernized .38-44 HV due to the seating depth of the all-copper bullet. Reload data reflects this as well. A smaller powder charge means less muzzle blast and softer recoil.
I'm just hoping that Remington's bankruptcy doesn't effect availability since they own Barnes.
I use a Dan Wesson M14-2 fitted with a 3" EWK EH shroud & barrel set.

[ruggyh]

ake your pick...

You stick XX grains of Bullseye in a .38 spl case under a 125 grain bullet & stick the same amount in a .357 mag case under a 125 grain bullet & you'll get pretty much the same velocity out of both.

On the upper end, stick XXX grains of 2400 in a .38 spl case under a 173 grain cast lead bullet & stick the same amount of 2400 in a .357 magnum case under the same 173 grain cast lead bullet & you get pretty much the same velocity.

That's more or less what Keith did back around the early 1930's.
Hal is offline Report Post Quick reply to this message

Had to borrow a test barrel and transducer to do this

8" barrel and PCI transducer used in Willams reciever, Ohler 87

125 XTP Hornady bullet and Bullseye powder

Tested each set to get as close to SAAMI MAP pressure for each cartridge

38 case, measured pressure 17100psi, measured velocity 1205fps (5.6 g)
38 case, measured pressure 18408psi, measured velocity 1272fps (5.8 g)
357 case, measured pressure 34875psi, measured velocity 1577fps (8.2 g)

If you load to MAP for any reasonable powder your results will be similar.

Case volume matters, pressure matters.

A 38 is a 38, a 38+ is a 38+, a 357 is a 357.
You cant make something it's not no matter how hard you try.

be safe
Ruggy

[Hal]

Brother - - can you read?

What part of "put the same amount of powder in both cases" is unclear?

I had to go back three times just to make sure I'd written: "You stick XX grains of Bullseye in a .38 spl case under a 125 grain bullet & stick the same amount in a .357 mag case under a 125 grain bullet & you'll get pretty much the same velocity out of both."

You put 8.2 grains in the .357 mag case & 5.6/5.8 grains in the .38 spl case.

Naturally - you'll have more pressure & more velocity ...duh...
How about using the same amount of powder in both the magnum and the special cases?

When the .357 magnum was in it's pre-infancy, they were using .38 spl cases - which are plenty strong enough to handle the pressures - to work up to magnum levels.

You're little presentation proved exactly - - nothing...other than the obvious that - more powder make a bullet go faster...

[ruggyh]

Brother - - can you read?

What part of "put the same amount of powder in both cases" is unclear?

I had to go back three times just to make sure I'd written: "You stick XX grains of Bullseye in a .38 spl case under a 125 grain bullet & stick the same amount in a .357 mag case under a 125 grain bullet & you'll get pretty much the same velocity out of both."

You are correct in that I did not read your Entire post here closely.

You would be correct if one assumes you seated the bullets to the same depth you will get the same velocity.

Conversely it appears you did not read my post very carefully either - at no point did I say anything about case fill (except to give the powder weight), I have repeatedly said SAAMI pressure.

My point is will illustrated in the actual pressure testing in my previous post

my question to you from your comment about

Not in testing I have done where powder selection is reasonable and SAAMI pressure limit was used.

Please enlighten us with such a combination.

In the end a cartridge is what it is- no more no less.

Case volume cannot be replaced by any powder.

be safe
Ruggy

[Buckeye!]

https://youtu.be/yJmqcE7ZHhY

@ 4:55 of the video.. He mentions "you could bout get the same performance with a 9mm"

I own 2 357mag snubbies and 2 38spl snubbies .. I carry the 38spl snubbies more , lotz more .. I have them stoked with Federal 130gr HST ...
The small light revolvers make a good BUG for my Glock 27

[Hal]

my question to you from your comment about

Yes - I did read that & I don't agree with a lot of it.


(((I apologize for the earlier statement I made in this post ( at ~ 4:30 am ) regarding case volume. While I don't feel case volume is a factor with the straight walled .38 special and .357 magnum cases, pressures can be driven out of this world if a bullet is seated too deeply &/or a compressed powder charge is used.
With a semi auto, bullet setback is a real thing and a real concern)))

Pressure is a given. More peak pressure can, but not always, deliver more velocity.
+P and +P+ - refer to peak pressures.

In any event, as entertaining as this topic (.38 vs .357) is, I go back to my original post - the debate has been going on long before any of us were here & will go on as long as people talk or write about guns.

[ThomasT]

When the .357 magnum was in it's pre-infancy, they were using .38 spl cases - which are plenty strong enough to handle the pressures - to work up to magnum levels.

Yes the cases were not the problem. The problem was these magnum pressure rounds might be fired in guns that didn't have the strength to handle the round. You might get away with it for a while but eventually it would catch up and wreck you gun. The simple solution was to stretch the case and design guns to handle the round.

I thought everyone knew a full power 357 would be more powerful than a full power 38 special round. Maybe not rank beginners and neophytes but most seasoned shooters.

And I thought the premise of the original post was that if you own a 357 and don't shoot full bore 357 rounds 100% of the time are are a weenie. Well I guess I'm a weenie because I own 6 357 revolvers and rarely shoot full bore loads. I do shoot a lot of 357 cases with 158gr lead bullets loaded to 1100fps or just a bit more. Those are my favorite 357 loads.

And to say you have to shoot full power rounds all the time is to ignore one of the greatest attributes of the 357 revolver and that is its versatility. You can shoot everything from wax and plastic bullet loads. Round ball gallery loads. Trainer loads with 38 WC loads to full power SD and hunting loads. How does it get any better than a 357 revolver and a reloading kit?

[HighValleyRanch]

And I thought the premise of the original post was that if you own a 357 and don't shoot full bore 357 rounds 100% of the time are are a weenie.

Well, it turns out the the OP wasn't even shooting full house loads, but watered down mid range loads thinking that they were hotter than ANY .38 +P could ever be.....which of course I proved wasn't the case.