New Swager

cooney · March 17, 2015, 09:07 PM

Hello just joined not long ago. Need some input on swagers .Looking to buy one, either Dillon or RCBS, Bench top models.Know both are good products , which one would you buy & why? Both have good customer service.

surveyor · March 17, 2015, 10:04 PM

Of the 2 choices I would get the dillon.
The lever is easier to pull back towards you instead of a smaller lever that rotates.
More of a natural motion to me.

But I own neither, I cut crimps out instead.

JeepHammer · March 18, 2015, 09:12 AM

I second cutting crimps.
I have the RCBS swagging tool that fits in the press, and it takes a LOT of force to push that work hardened brass around.

With a cutter, you just touch the case and you are done.
Nice taper, hardened lip gone, Done & Done.

I started with an INSIDE the case neck trimmer that came to a point epoxied into a wooden handle,
Half turn per case was enough to cut the crimp and taper the primer pocket hole.

When I started using a power trimmer (again, inside the neck trimmer) I had to REALLY watch what I was doing or I would dig too deep,
It only takes a TOUCH with a power trimmer.

No hammering on a compression handle, No cases stuck on the compression ram,
Hand trimmers are DIRT CHEAP and you can do the cases while watching the news since it's not a critical dimension you are cutting.

Those crimps are the bane of using military brass, but once done, they never have to be done again.
The first thing I do when I get military brass is use a universal decapping die to knock the primers out,
Trim the cases,
Then into the tumbler they go with the rest of the brass.
From there on out, they ARE regular brass...

schmellba99 · March 18, 2015, 09:20 AM

Never used the RCBS, own the Dillon. The Dillon is a great tool, easy to use and you can run through a lot of brass in a short time frame.

Inline Fabrication makes an insert that you put in for large or small brass that eliminates issues with centering and height - jsut got a set the other day and got them fitted. One day I'll get to see how well they work (all my brass is swaged right now already). There are some tricks online you can find to "automate" the action that look interesting.

I'm sure cutting them out works, but I've never done it.

kostner · March 18, 2015, 12:42 PM

Here is another way to go. Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Case Prep and Trim Center from Midwayusa $169 not a bad price for a multi tool. I have the Dillon Super Swage that works great but if I was younger I'd might give the Frankfort at try,

GWS · March 18, 2015, 01:51 PM

I have the RCBS. What got my attention was the ability to mount it at any angle I want and back from the edge of the bench.

So I have it mounted behind my press, and to the right of my Trim Mate. That means with previously sized and trimmed brass I can swage, uniform, and deburr flash holes, charge, and seat without so much as swiveling my drafting stool......IOW's perfect for the lazy, the efficient-minded.....or those space-challenged loaders.

If you think you actually need the long lever on the Dillon to swage, you just haven't tried the RCBS one yet. It is nearly as effortless. I did a video review of it on AR15.com and it was amusing....I kept trying to brace for a harder pull.....finally I realized it wasn't going to come. I did attempt to swage one not deprimed....that obviously doesn't work!

Here's the review with video if anyone wants to peek: RCBS Bench Swager

BTW the review was done before I mounted a Summit Press in front. Sweet efficiency.

Farmland · March 18, 2015, 05:37 PM

My first venture into this was with the RCBS press swagger. Yes I bent the road on the first try. No big problem they sent me another one. I found it a pain to adjust but when I did get it working it was ok. Slow and fine for small amounts but slow.

So I went to the the tool that just cuts them out by hand. A little faster but boy did my hand start to hurt when you get just a few hundred done. I even adapted it to a drill but still it was hard on the hands.

I started to borrow my buddies Dillon. I felt like I died and went to heaven. Easy to set up and fast.

Another friend has the RCBS. It too was great and fast.

One blue and one green but which one was it going to be. It was a simple preference of the action I liked best. The Dillon was the clear winner for me, I just found the ergonomics worked best for my hands and wrist.

I have mine mounted on a board then c-clamp the board to the table. I figure why have more stuff on the bench when you don't need to use it.

sevt_chevelle · March 18, 2015, 05:57 PM

Dillon hands down. Add the auto eject mode and you can fly through some brass.

JeepHammer · March 18, 2015, 06:41 PM

The $5 Solution.

LINK: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-...ool-68535.html

The same counter sink (better quality/no handle) is sold at Sears & Wally-World for about $10

A hand drill with speed control makes this about a 1,000 Round an hour tool.
I just cut 4,000 Military rounds in about 4 hours with the countersink in a hand drill.

Not a bad deal for something you do ONCE to the brass,
Nothing screwed to your bench in the way, taking up bench top space, and didn't cost $100+ you could have spent on other stuff you need more...

No more grunting, No more akward angles, no more hammering on stuck swaging tools,
$90+ back in your pocket...

Once the hardened lip is gone, you get a nice FUNNEL to guide your new primer into the pocket,

As long as you don't cut any farther than the rounded edge of the primer cup, you HAVE NOT effected the ability of the case to hold the primer (as some have suggested)...

It's literally a one second operation with a hand drill, three seconds by hand.

skizzums · March 18, 2015, 06:48 PM

^^yup, easiest and fastest way. being the cheapest and most easily obtained is just a bonus.

left still has crimp, other two done with countersink. take literally about 1 second, highly recommend it. I have never had loose primer or any issues. have done this to, I dunno, 6-7 thousand cases I guess who knows anymore

Cnight21 · March 18, 2015, 08:04 PM

I use the rcbs press mounted swaged for my 556 casings and it seems to work fine. I have swaged around 300 casings with it without a problem but it is the only thin I have ever used for the job. I guess I don't see how you can bend the rod on it

cooney · March 18, 2015, 09:03 PM

I thank all of you for for your responses.At present time I am also cutting crimps, the problem is my wrist,needs reconstructive surgery it takes along time to heal back up 3yrs. on the left one.After cutting 100 cases the right one is shot. Need a bench top model. Less work on the wrist. Video was very nice ,good setup. Looked very quick. Harbor F.tool might be less stressful with drill set-up will try it out. If not Dillon will be getting a call. Again Thank you all for your help an input on this subject.

rg1 · March 18, 2015, 09:50 PM

I bought the RCBS model just because I wanted a backup to my RCBS press operated swaging die. RCBS tools are available locally while Dillion products are scarce in my local shops. If they had the Dillon at the store I would have bought it due to all the good reviews. I've only adjusted the RCBS for swaging .223 cases and it appears to do a good job. My press swager is handier for me as it's in a press beside my main press. I size them move to the other press and swage without putting the case down. My RCBS press swager has swaged many thousands of .223 and a few thousand 30-06 cases.

surveyor · March 18, 2015, 10:21 PM

My foray into crimped brass was as follows.

Try and use a hand held debur tool. Decided there was a better way.
Used a press mounted swager. Still thought there was a better way.
Looked long and hard at the bench mounted swagers, and used both green and blue.
The blue was more ergonimic to me, but still did not buy one.

I ended up with a rcbs case prep center as I also wanted to make chamfering and deburring easier than a hand held tool. I used the rcbs crimp remover, chamfer, debur, primer pocket brush, and neck brush in it. I am happy with the choice as it made the other aspects of case prep easier for me.

If all I was planning to do was remove crimps only I would have gotten the super swager.

lamarw · March 18, 2015, 11:49 PM

I recently obtained a Dillon especially for crimped 5.56 brass. At first, I could not believe how easy it was compared to using a dremel. I went through 1500 pieces of brass in a couple of hours.

oldreloader · March 19, 2015, 12:09 AM

I just cut them with a Lyman or Hornady primer pocket reamer.

1stmar · March 19, 2015, 02:46 AM

I saw one on ebay for the dillon 550 and 650. Looks like it replaces the primer seating pocket. Not sure how it works but seemed interesting and was reasonable priced. $80.

catgunguy · March 19, 2015, 09:37 AM

I also have the Dillon but if I was starting over I would probably go with CH4D.
https://www.ch4d.com/products/equipm...ming-tools/psk

That way I could use my press and use less bench space.

skizzums · March 19, 2015, 02:10 PM

I like that. Very reasonable cost too, I haven't seen it before

surveyor · March 19, 2015, 06:00 PM

I had one of the ch4d ones. Yes it worked, but it only supports the case by the rim in the shell holder. The dillon has a rod that supports the case from the inside.

Still prefer cutting them with the rcbs crimp remover, or if I bought a swager only it would be the blue one.

March 17, 2015, 09:07 PM	#1
cooney Junior Member Join Date: September 14, 2014 Posts: 4	New Swager Hello just joined not long ago. Need some input on swagers .Looking to buy one, either Dillon or RCBS, Bench top models.Know both are good products , which one would you buy & why? Both have good customer service.

March 18, 2015, 06:48 PM	#10
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	^^yup, easiest and fastest way. being the cheapest and most easily obtained is just a bonus. left still has crimp, other two done with countersink. take literally about 1 second, highly recommend it. I have never had loose primer or any issues. have done this to, I dunno, 6-7 thousand cases I guess who knows anymore __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed Last edited by skizzums; March 18, 2015 at 07:02 PM.

March 18, 2015, 09:03 PM	#12
cooney Junior Member Join Date: September 14, 2014 Posts: 4	New Swager I thank all of you for for your responses.At present time I am also cutting crimps, the problem is my wrist,needs reconstructive surgery it takes along time to heal back up 3yrs. on the left one.After cutting 100 cases the right one is shot. Need a bench top model. Less work on the wrist. Video was very nice ,good setup. Looked very quick. Harbor F.tool might be less stressful with drill set-up will try it out. If not Dillon will be getting a call. Again Thank you all for your help an input on this subject.

March 19, 2015, 02:10 PM	#19
skizzums Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2013 Location: Douglasville, Ga Posts: 4,615	I like that. Very reasonable cost too, I haven't seen it before __________________ My head is bloody, but unbowed

March 17, 2015, 10:04 PM	#2
surveyor Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2007 Posts: 770	Of the 2 choices I would get the dillon. The lever is easier to pull back towards you instead of a smaller lever that rotates. More of a natural motion to me. But I own neither, I cut crimps out instead.

March 18, 2015, 09:12 AM	#3
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	I second cutting crimps. I have the RCBS swagging tool that fits in the press, and it takes a LOT of force to push that work hardened brass around. With a cutter, you just touch the case and you are done. Nice taper, hardened lip gone, Done & Done. I started with an INSIDE the case neck trimmer that came to a point epoxied into a wooden handle, Half turn per case was enough to cut the crimp and taper the primer pocket hole. When I started using a power trimmer (again, inside the neck trimmer) I had to REALLY watch what I was doing or I would dig too deep, It only takes a TOUCH with a power trimmer. No hammering on a compression handle, No cases stuck on the compression ram, Hand trimmers are DIRT CHEAP and you can do the cases while watching the news since it's not a critical dimension you are cutting. Those crimps are the bane of using military brass, but once done, they never have to be done again. The first thing I do when I get military brass is use a universal decapping die to knock the primers out, Trim the cases, Then into the tumbler they go with the rest of the brass. From there on out, they ARE regular brass...

March 18, 2015, 09:20 AM	#4
schmellba99 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 803	Never used the RCBS, own the Dillon. The Dillon is a great tool, easy to use and you can run through a lot of brass in a short time frame. Inline Fabrication makes an insert that you put in for large or small brass that eliminates issues with centering and height - jsut got a set the other day and got them fitted. One day I'll get to see how well they work (all my brass is swaged right now already). There are some tricks online you can find to "automate" the action that look interesting. I'm sure cutting them out works, but I've never done it.

March 18, 2015, 12:42 PM	#5
kostner Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Location: Kommifornia Posts: 120	Here is another way to go. Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Case Prep and Trim Center from Midwayusa $169 not a bad price for a multi tool. I have the Dillon Super Swage that works great but if I was younger I'd might give the Frankfort at try,

March 18, 2015, 01:51 PM	#6
GWS Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 688	I have the RCBS. What got my attention was the ability to mount it at any angle I want and back from the edge of the bench. So I have it mounted behind my press, and to the right of my Trim Mate. That means with previously sized and trimmed brass I can swage, uniform, and deburr flash holes, charge, and seat without so much as swiveling my drafting stool......IOW's perfect for the lazy, the efficient-minded.....or those space-challenged loaders. If you think you actually need the long lever on the Dillon to swage, you just haven't tried the RCBS one yet. It is nearly as effortless. I did a video review of it on AR15.com and it was amusing....I kept trying to brace for a harder pull.....finally I realized it wasn't going to come. I did attempt to swage one not deprimed....that obviously doesn't work! Here's the review with video if anyone wants to peek: RCBS Bench Swager BTW the review was done before I mounted a Summit Press in front. Sweet efficiency.

March 18, 2015, 05:37 PM	#7
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	My first venture into this was with the RCBS press swagger. Yes I bent the road on the first try. No big problem they sent me another one. I found it a pain to adjust but when I did get it working it was ok. Slow and fine for small amounts but slow. So I went to the the tool that just cuts them out by hand. A little faster but boy did my hand start to hurt when you get just a few hundred done. I even adapted it to a drill but still it was hard on the hands. I started to borrow my buddies Dillon. I felt like I died and went to heaven. Easy to set up and fast. Another friend has the RCBS. It too was great and fast. One blue and one green but which one was it going to be. It was a simple preference of the action I liked best. The Dillon was the clear winner for me, I just found the ergonomics worked best for my hands and wrist. I have mine mounted on a board then c-clamp the board to the table. I figure why have more stuff on the bench when you don't need to use it.

March 18, 2015, 05:57 PM	#8
sevt_chevelle Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2013 Posts: 324	Dillon hands down. Add the auto eject mode and you can fly through some brass.

March 18, 2015, 06:41 PM	#9
JeepHammer Junior member Join Date: February 27, 2015 Posts: 1,768	The $5 Solution. LINK: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-...ool-68535.html The same counter sink (better quality/no handle) is sold at Sears & Wally-World for about $10 A hand drill with speed control makes this about a 1,000 Round an hour tool. I just cut 4,000 Military rounds in about 4 hours with the countersink in a hand drill. Not a bad deal for something you do ONCE to the brass, Nothing screwed to your bench in the way, taking up bench top space, and didn't cost $100+ you could have spent on other stuff you need more... No more grunting, No more akward angles, no more hammering on stuck swaging tools, $90+ back in your pocket... Once the hardened lip is gone, you get a nice FUNNEL to guide your new primer into the pocket, As long as you don't cut any farther than the rounded edge of the primer cup, you HAVE NOT effected the ability of the case to hold the primer (as some have suggested)... It's literally a one second operation with a hand drill, three seconds by hand.

March 18, 2015, 08:04 PM	#11
Cnight21 Member Join Date: December 16, 2014 Posts: 47	I use the rcbs press mounted swaged for my 556 casings and it seems to work fine. I have swaged around 300 casings with it without a problem but it is the only thin I have ever used for the job. I guess I don't see how you can bend the rod on it

March 18, 2015, 09:50 PM	#13
rg1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 1,125	I bought the RCBS model just because I wanted a backup to my RCBS press operated swaging die. RCBS tools are available locally while Dillion products are scarce in my local shops. If they had the Dillon at the store I would have bought it due to all the good reviews. I've only adjusted the RCBS for swaging .223 cases and it appears to do a good job. My press swager is handier for me as it's in a press beside my main press. I size them move to the other press and swage without putting the case down. My RCBS press swager has swaged many thousands of .223 and a few thousand 30-06 cases.

March 18, 2015, 10:21 PM	#14
surveyor Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2007 Posts: 770	My foray into crimped brass was as follows. Try and use a hand held debur tool. Decided there was a better way. Used a press mounted swager. Still thought there was a better way. Looked long and hard at the bench mounted swagers, and used both green and blue. The blue was more ergonimic to me, but still did not buy one. I ended up with a rcbs case prep center as I also wanted to make chamfering and deburring easier than a hand held tool. I used the rcbs crimp remover, chamfer, debur, primer pocket brush, and neck brush in it. I am happy with the choice as it made the other aspects of case prep easier for me. If all I was planning to do was remove crimps only I would have gotten the super swager.

March 18, 2015, 11:49 PM	#15
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	I recently obtained a Dillon especially for crimped 5.56 brass. At first, I could not believe how easy it was compared to using a dremel. I went through 1500 pieces of brass in a couple of hours.

March 19, 2015, 12:09 AM	#16
oldreloader Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2009 Location: Magnolia, Arkansas Posts: 251	I just cut them with a Lyman or Hornady primer pocket reamer.

March 19, 2015, 02:46 AM	#17
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	I saw one on ebay for the dillon 550 and 650. Looks like it replaces the primer seating pocket. Not sure how it works but seemed interesting and was reasonable priced. $80.

March 19, 2015, 09:37 AM	#18
catgunguy Member Join Date: March 11, 2014 Posts: 37	I also have the Dillon but if I was starting over I would probably go with CH4D. https://www.ch4d.com/products/equipm...ming-tools/psk That way I could use my press and use less bench space.

March 19, 2015, 06:00 PM	#20
surveyor Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2007 Posts: 770	I had one of the ch4d ones. Yes it worked, but it only supports the case by the rim in the shell holder. The dillon has a rod that supports the case from the inside. Still prefer cutting them with the rcbs crimp remover, or if I bought a swager only it would be the blue one.