Handgun accuracy

garryc · January 19, 2015, 10:50 AM

Accuracy builds confidence, even though that accuracy will not be realized in a fight. Essentially it is most important that the weapon operate 100% of the time both in two hands, one and with the off hand plus single hand from the hip.

Accuracy in a fight, open your palm all the way and put it in the center of your chest, that's all you need at 7 yards in a fight. Normally you will not identify a threat with sufficient cause to draw your weapon until he is well within 7 yards. That threat is not clearly identified until he closes the gap and takes aggressive action.

Which is why I do not understand why people practice without including contact range shooting. Drawing the weapon with one hand while you defend or distract with the other at contact range. Most people who I teach cannot draw their concealed weapon with one hand when it is under an un-tucked shirt, forget about a tucked in shirt. They have learned to lift the shirt with one hand ad draw the weapon with the other. But what if you can't do that?

And nobody seems to ever practice firing from the hip, in close.

g.willikers · January 19, 2015, 10:53 AM

How about an open shirt or jacket that provides suitable concealment, but can be brushed back out of the way with the gun hand?

garryc · January 19, 2015, 11:22 AM

That depends on your attire. I generally wear a Tee shirt so I practice lifting that with my thumb. I carry IWB most of the time.

The question is not changing your attire to suit the CCW, it's training yourself to act without thought in what you wear.

In the times I wear a button up shirt I have no problem ripping that shirt to get to the gun. I do put on a button up shirt and tuck it (I don't button it) and practice ripping it open to get to my firearm. It's a whole lot easier to sew on buttons than it is to heal from stab wounds.

T. O'Heir · January 19, 2015, 02:34 PM

Most people will never have cause to draw a firearm from any holster.
You'll likely find nobody ever practices at all. Suspect you'll find most people can't hit anywhere near that open hand at 7 yards anyway.
In any case, if you can't shoot with enough accuracy to hit what you shoot at, what holster is used or how you draw is irrelevant. Shooting from the hip isn't accurate enough unless you do practice with the ammo you intend carrying regularly. 7 yards is a game player's ideal too.

garryc · January 20, 2015, 12:19 AM

You are right, most don't practice at all. Or they go and shoot on a line which is almost not practicing. But you are wrong about the hip shot. That is only for contact distance, point blank in your face range. Those rounds fall in his gut, which is fine by me.

The again I see instructors teaching to attack the target, close the gap, win the gun fight. Umm.... NO!... open the gap and get your butt out.

**JohnKSa** · January 20, 2015, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Most people who I teach cannot draw their concealed weapon with one hand when it is under an un-tucked shirt, forget about a tucked in shirt. They have learned to lift the shirt with one hand ad draw the weapon with the other. But what if you can't do that?

I agree that anyone who carries a firearm needs to have a plan to not only access their gun one-handed (dealing with concealment if necessary) but also to access it weak-handed. The idea that one will always have two hands available for a draw, or even always have their strong hand available for a draw is overly optimistic, IMO.

Quote:

I generally wear a Tee shirt so I practice lifting that with my thumb.
...
In the times I wear a button up shirt I have no problem ripping that shirt to get to the gun.

I'm not that versatile. I draw the same whether I'm wearing a T, Polo or button front shirt. Maybe if I had a lot more time to practice I could get good enough to rapidly figure out which shirt I'm wearing and which draw to use for that shirt. As it is, I have one draw from concealment and it's designed so I can use it no matter what I'm wearing.

Quote:

How about an open shirt or jacket that provides suitable concealment, but can be brushed back out of the way with the gun hand?

If you can make it work for you under the conditions you carry, then go for it.

I've never been able to make it work for me except with a jacket heavy enough that the wind won't blow it open. Otherwise, if I can brush it back away from the gun, the wind can blow it back away from the gun too.

raimius · January 20, 2015, 03:32 AM

Practice how you "play"...
If you want to perform well in real situations, you should practice similar things on a regular basis.

What does that mean?
For someone who carries a concealed gun in public, you should practice draws from concealment, including while under melee attack. You should be able to shoot from contact distance to whatever your "reasonable" distance in public is. (There have been people who successfully defended others at over 100yds with a pistol, but that is certainly beyond most people's skill level or reasonable expectations.) That also means you need to know your own capabilities, both under ideal and less than ideal conditions!

psalm7 · January 20, 2015, 08:56 PM

It took me a while to understand handgun accuracy as I normaly shoot rifles and like groups you can cover with your thumb , While I was learning combat handgun from a old vet I was discuraged walking up to the target and could barley cover the 20 yard groups with my open hand and He came up and said your doing good now speed it up your not on the Sniper range anymore .
I now have my own routine of practiceing from 30 yards up to room distance from 10' to near point blank .

steve4102 · January 22, 2015, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Most people who I teach cannot draw their concealed weapon with one hand when it is under an un-tucked shirt, forget about a tucked in shirt. They have learned to lift the shirt with one hand ad draw the weapon with the other. But what if you can't do that?

Open Carry!

WyMark · January 22, 2015, 11:50 PM

I'm lucky enough to have an outdoor range nearby with individual (high dirt berm) lanes. My normal practice consists of drawing from cover - shirt or shirt and jacket, weather dependent - and hitting a steel knock-down plate at 7-10 yards. I point shoot from around mid-waist high and can draw and hit in just under 3 seconds most times. I carry OWB at 3 o'clock and wear either a t-shirt or polo shirt. I only have two carry guns, a Shield 9 and a Keltec P32. I figure if I can hit reliably at 7-10 I should be able to hit at contact range.

I practice the same type drill dry fire at home and am trying hard to get down to 1.5 second or less. I do practice off-hand, but due to my carry position I don't really have a way to draw left hand.

But I also practice dry fire from the hip, using a mirror. I draw and shoot as soon as the muzzle is gut level. That I can do in 1-1.5 sec, but my goal is kraigwy's hand clap speed.

hartcreek · January 23, 2015, 12:36 AM

I practice drawing from shoulder holsters and IWB and my coat set up. I also double carry and I practice drawing and shooting with both hands both single handed and with a support hand. Since I shoot revolvers and semi auto both I use one grip for both hands Teacup.

Yes I am old but teacup works just fine for me even with a .44 magnum.

By using one grip for any of my hand guns I will never have to worry about limp wristing or slide bite.

I use a reactive 3/4 torso size steel target on my own range at fifty feet.

January 19, 2015, 10:50 AM	#1
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	Handgun accuracy Accuracy builds confidence, even though that accuracy will not be realized in a fight. Essentially it is most important that the weapon operate 100% of the time both in two hands, one and with the off hand plus single hand from the hip. Accuracy in a fight, open your palm all the way and put it in the center of your chest, that's all you need at 7 yards in a fight. Normally you will not identify a threat with sufficient cause to draw your weapon until he is well within 7 yards. That threat is not clearly identified until he closes the gap and takes aggressive action. Which is why I do not understand why people practice without including contact range shooting. Drawing the weapon with one hand while you defend or distract with the other at contact range. Most people who I teach cannot draw their concealed weapon with one hand when it is under an un-tucked shirt, forget about a tucked in shirt. They have learned to lift the shirt with one hand ad draw the weapon with the other. But what if you can't do that? And nobody seems to ever practice firing from the hip, in close.

January 19, 2015, 10:53 AM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	How about an open shirt or jacket that provides suitable concealment, but can be brushed back out of the way with the gun hand? __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

January 19, 2015, 02:34 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Most people will never have cause to draw a firearm from any holster. You'll likely find nobody ever practices at all. Suspect you'll find most people can't hit anywhere near that open hand at 7 yards anyway. In any case, if you can't shoot with enough accuracy to hit what you shoot at, what holster is used or how you draw is irrelevant. Shooting from the hip isn't accurate enough unless you do practice with the ammo you intend carrying regularly. 7 yards is a game player's ideal too. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 19, 2015, 11:22 AM	#3
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	That depends on your attire. I generally wear a Tee shirt so I practice lifting that with my thumb. I carry IWB most of the time. The question is not changing your attire to suit the CCW, it's training yourself to act without thought in what you wear. In the times I wear a button up shirt I have no problem ripping that shirt to get to the gun. I do put on a button up shirt and tuck it (I don't button it) and practice ripping it open to get to my firearm. It's a whole lot easier to sew on buttons than it is to heal from stab wounds.

January 20, 2015, 12:19 AM	#5
garryc Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2005 Posts: 2,536	You are right, most don't practice at all. Or they go and shoot on a line which is almost not practicing. But you are wrong about the hip shot. That is only for contact distance, point blank in your face range. Those rounds fall in his gut, which is fine by me. The again I see instructors teaching to attack the target, close the gap, win the gun fight. Umm.... NO!... open the gap and get your butt out.

January 20, 2015, 03:32 AM	#7
raimius Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2008 Posts: 2,199	Practice how you "play"... If you want to perform well in real situations, you should practice similar things on a regular basis. What does that mean? For someone who carries a concealed gun in public, you should practice draws from concealment, including while under melee attack. You should be able to shoot from contact distance to whatever your "reasonable" distance in public is. (There have been people who successfully defended others at over 100yds with a pistol, but that is certainly beyond most people's skill level or reasonable expectations.) That also means you need to know your own capabilities, both under ideal and less than ideal conditions!

January 20, 2015, 08:56 PM	#8
psalm7 Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2014 Location: Middle TN Posts: 543	It took me a while to understand handgun accuracy as I normaly shoot rifles and like groups you can cover with your thumb , While I was learning combat handgun from a old vet I was discuraged walking up to the target and could barley cover the 20 yard groups with my open hand and He came up and said your doing good now speed it up your not on the Sniper range anymore . I now have my own routine of practiceing from 30 yards up to room distance from 10' to near point blank .

January 22, 2015, 11:50 PM	#10
WyMark Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2011 Location: Wyoming Posts: 647	I'm lucky enough to have an outdoor range nearby with individual (high dirt berm) lanes. My normal practice consists of drawing from cover - shirt or shirt and jacket, weather dependent - and hitting a steel knock-down plate at 7-10 yards. I point shoot from around mid-waist high and can draw and hit in just under 3 seconds most times. I carry OWB at 3 o'clock and wear either a t-shirt or polo shirt. I only have two carry guns, a Shield 9 and a Keltec P32. I figure if I can hit reliably at 7-10 I should be able to hit at contact range. I practice the same type drill dry fire at home and am trying hard to get down to 1.5 second or less. I do practice off-hand, but due to my carry position I don't really have a way to draw left hand. But I also practice dry fire from the hip, using a mirror. I draw and shoot as soon as the muzzle is gut level. That I can do in 1-1.5 sec, but my goal is kraigwy's hand clap speed.

January 23, 2015, 12:36 AM	#11
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I practice drawing from shoulder holsters and IWB and my coat set up. I also double carry and I practice drawing and shooting with both hands both single handed and with a support hand. Since I shoot revolvers and semi auto both I use one grip for both hands Teacup. Yes I am old but teacup works just fine for me even with a .44 magnum. By using one grip for any of my hand guns I will never have to worry about limp wristing or slide bite. I use a reactive 3/4 torso size steel target on my own range at fifty feet.