powder measures

smarkandrose · August 12, 2009, 12:26 PM

does anybody know which powder measures work best with coarse powders such as imr 4064,4350,3031?

**Unclenick** · August 12, 2009, 04:55 PM

Welcome to the forum.

All the powders you've named are what are called stick powders owing to the shapes of their grains resembling little segments of pencil lead sticks. They are notorious for "cutting" in measures where a metering chamber slides or rotates against a hard edged opening.

On the plus side, Hatcher's Notebook shows, and my own experiences seem to agree, that they shoot well with a wider charge weight variance that the finer grained powders that are harder to light. But who wants variance if it can be avoided, and there are two ways to do that.

For a mechanical powder measure, hands down, the most consistent I've ever seen at metering stick powders is the Quick Measure. I got one on Rocky Raab's recommendation. It is a unique design that cannot cut grains. It either loads them or slips them out. It is less convenient to adjust than the micrometer and screw adjusted measures, but mine throws most of the powders you mentioned to within 0.1 to 0.15 grains of optimum and the maker guarantees 0.2 grains. That's as good or better than Federal Gold Medal match ammunition, which uses a 4895-like stick powder. I've pulled military match ammo with stick powder that varied 0.8 grains in my samples.

Second place for stick powder, believe it or not, I would give to the inexpensive Lee Perfect measure if you get a good one. I have two and one is distinctly better that the other. The measure has a patented wiper that is supposed to prevent stick cutting. It works most of the time on one of my two, and about half the time on the other. On the better measure I can usually stay with 0.2 grains if I set aside the dispensed powder in cases where I felt the wiper fail to prevent cutting (the drum sticks a bit when this happens; you'll find the feel fast enough).

I think all measures benefit from double baffling. You can download a PDF file of baffle template from my file repository, here. There is an illustration of how to double-baffle included.

The other method is to get an electronic dispenser. The RCBS seems to be the most well-liked, from my reading. I have a PACT that works well, but I had to jump through some extra hoops to stop the scale from drifting. As long as the scale doesn't drift, they should all throw each charge consistently. That last point requires letting everything warm up and stabilize half an hour to an hour, IME, and not operating the scale in an electrically noisy environment. The first of these machines weren't very fast, but most will now dispense a new charge about as fast as most of use can seat a bullet over the previously dispensed one. If the scale keeps its zero, you can get charges weighed within 0.1 grains, though you will be hard put to see the difference on a target between 0.1 and 0.2 grain precision with stick powder. Psychologically it feels more satisfying, though. So, if you have the money, by all means give it a try. The Quick Measure will be fastest for loading a whole tray of cases in one batch, though.

smarkandrose · August 12, 2009, 05:19 PM

thanks for the info i have been working with extruded powders like that and have getting pretty good results with them especially on my older rifles

Doodlebugger45 · August 12, 2009, 05:26 PM

Of the powders you mentioned, I've only used 4350 and my Lee Perfect Powder measure did a fine job with that one. It will thrown to within .2 gr every time for 4350. The stuff that gives it a little more problem is like the 4831. Those sticks are even longer and I sometimes get .4 gr variation on it. A guy down at the sporting goods store told me if I liked 4831, I should try 4831 SC. About the same as 4831 except the grains are shorter and easier to meter. Naturally, he didn't have any of it though.

LHB1 · August 12, 2009, 08:32 PM

The Micro Measure from Neil Jones Custom Products is the best powder measure I have ever used for throwing consistent charges with coarse powders. Beware sticker shock; it isn't cheap.
http://www.neiljones.com/html/measure.html

wncchester · August 12, 2009, 08:38 PM

"..4350 and my Lee Perfect Powder measure did a fine job"

No matter how it grates against the nerves of some, there's the answer.

I've just GOT to get me one of them little things!

Dave P · August 12, 2009, 08:40 PM

For those like like to save money, try a Lee machine, about $20. Has plastic wiper so it can not cut the granules.

I use mine on 4064 - works pretty well. When I win the lottery I will a Jones or the one that starts with an H ... ??

JohnLaird · August 15, 2009, 01:45 PM

I used to use a metal spoon for that.

August 12, 2009, 12:26 PM	#1
smarkandrose Junior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Posts: 2	powder measures does anybody know which powder measures work best with coarse powders such as imr 4064,4350,3031?

August 12, 2009, 04:55 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Welcome to the forum. All the powders you've named are what are called stick powders owing to the shapes of their grains resembling little segments of pencil lead sticks. They are notorious for "cutting" in measures where a metering chamber slides or rotates against a hard edged opening. On the plus side, Hatcher's Notebook shows, and my own experiences seem to agree, that they shoot well with a wider charge weight variance that the finer grained powders that are harder to light. But who wants variance if it can be avoided, and there are two ways to do that. For a mechanical powder measure, hands down, the most consistent I've ever seen at metering stick powders is the Quick Measure. I got one on Rocky Raab's recommendation. It is a unique design that cannot cut grains. It either loads them or slips them out. It is less convenient to adjust than the micrometer and screw adjusted measures, but mine throws most of the powders you mentioned to within 0.1 to 0.15 grains of optimum and the maker guarantees 0.2 grains. That's as good or better than Federal Gold Medal match ammunition, which uses a 4895-like stick powder. I've pulled military match ammo with stick powder that varied 0.8 grains in my samples. Second place for stick powder, believe it or not, I would give to the inexpensive Lee Perfect measure if you get a good one. I have two and one is distinctly better that the other. The measure has a patented wiper that is supposed to prevent stick cutting. It works most of the time on one of my two, and about half the time on the other. On the better measure I can usually stay with 0.2 grains if I set aside the dispensed powder in cases where I felt the wiper fail to prevent cutting (the drum sticks a bit when this happens; you'll find the feel fast enough). I think all measures benefit from double baffling. You can download a PDF file of baffle template from my file repository, here. There is an illustration of how to double-baffle included. The other method is to get an electronic dispenser. The RCBS seems to be the most well-liked, from my reading. I have a PACT that works well, but I had to jump through some extra hoops to stop the scale from drifting. As long as the scale doesn't drift, they should all throw each charge consistently. That last point requires letting everything warm up and stabilize half an hour to an hour, IME, and not operating the scale in an electrically noisy environment. The first of these machines weren't very fast, but most will now dispense a new charge about as fast as most of use can seat a bullet over the previously dispensed one. If the scale keeps its zero, you can get charges weighed within 0.1 grains, though you will be hard put to see the difference on a target between 0.1 and 0.2 grain precision with stick powder. Psychologically it feels more satisfying, though. So, if you have the money, by all means give it a try. The Quick Measure will be fastest for loading a whole tray of cases in one batch, though. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

August 12, 2009, 08:32 PM	#5
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	The Micro Measure from Neil Jones Custom Products is the best powder measure I have ever used for throwing consistent charges with coarse powders. Beware sticker shock; it isn't cheap. http://www.neiljones.com/html/measure.html __________________ Good shooting and be safe. LB

August 12, 2009, 08:40 PM	#7
Dave P Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Location: North Florida Posts: 1,346	For those like like to save money, try a Lee machine, about $20. Has plastic wiper so it can not cut the granules. I use mine on 4064 - works pretty well. When I win the lottery I will a Jones or the one that starts with an H ... ?? __________________ I think this country is screwed.

August 12, 2009, 05:19 PM	#3
smarkandrose Junior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Posts: 2	thanks for the info i have been working with extruded powders like that and have getting pretty good results with them especially on my older rifles

August 12, 2009, 05:26 PM	#4
Doodlebugger45 Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2009 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,717	Of the powders you mentioned, I've only used 4350 and my Lee Perfect Powder measure did a fine job with that one. It will thrown to within .2 gr every time for 4350. The stuff that gives it a little more problem is like the 4831. Those sticks are even longer and I sometimes get .4 gr variation on it. A guy down at the sporting goods store told me if I liked 4831, I should try 4831 SC. About the same as 4831 except the grains are shorter and easier to meter. Naturally, he didn't have any of it though.

August 12, 2009, 08:38 PM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"..4350 and my Lee Perfect Powder measure did a fine job" No matter how it grates against the nerves of some, there's the answer. I've just GOT to get me one of them little things!

August 15, 2009, 01:45 PM	#8
JohnLaird Member Join Date: May 27, 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 42	I used to use a metal spoon for that.