What I should have bought

Drummer101 · April 21, 2012, 02:47 PM

When I got my 870 I wanted something short barrel basically as a slug gun (deer, turkey, milk jugs, and sometimes I feel the need to shoot a slug) and maybe HD when I get my own place while doing back yard clays.

I have a 3901 which I dont like (fit issue) and even then I just find it rather large with a 28 inch barrel after using a friends 26 and 28 inch O/U. This is my current trap and skeet gun.

To consolidate those guns (and an excuse for a new one) I am thinking about about going to the pawn shop/gun store where they say I can get a Remington 1100 Tac 4 for about $816. I would trade in my two current shotguns plus maybe a little cash if needed.

It can be my slug gun (I dont like 3 inch shells anyway)
Has removable chokes (was going to do this to my 870 eventually for turkey or even for longer range clays)
Has a vent rib that I wish I had real bad on my 870
Little shorter than my 3901 (22inch vs. 28 inch)
Less recoil than either (beretta has plastic pad)

Sounds like a win all around.

Sorry about horrible spelling, taking a break from homework and my brain is dead.
PLEASE GO TO POST 10 FOR QUESTION

340 Weatherby · April 21, 2012, 03:56 PM

What is the fit issue with the 3901? Is it the length of pull or is it the drop of the comb. I would have thought you could buy a 26" barrel for the 3901, but a quick scan of beretta's web site didn't encourage me any. This is why when you buy a shotgun it needs to fit. Right off the rack if it doesn't feel like "oh baby,somethings gonna die", don't buy it. No matter how cheap it is, it has to fit or it's useless. Maybe someone else knows the secret to the beretta barrel availability. and whether your stock can be modifyed or not. I have a Browning B80 20 gauge that was built under the same patent as your gun and it is one of my most prized possessions. It is stocked a little higher than I would normally like but it kills valley quail like nothing else.

Drummer101 · April 21, 2012, 04:05 PM

Needs more drop in the comb and with that it should be higher, a touch longer, and a rubber pad on the back. I was quoted about $600 from Cole's for a new stock.

I did not know anything when I first bought it and in the store I assumed it worked. First shotgun.

You need a gun smith to take out the duck plug.

Granted I would have only known this if I bought it and used it.

Hence it is going to go soon I hope.

340 Weatherby · April 21, 2012, 04:16 PM

Pretty hard to put a $600 dollar stock on a $600 dollar gun. If you know a good gunsmith he may be willing to remove your stock recoil pad and stick a longer one on it with some tape to see how it feels to you. As lengthening the stock will change the position of your face on the gun, raising the comb slightly in the process.

Drummer101 · April 21, 2012, 04:19 PM

Getting the drop is the hard part. Spoke to local guys and they said it would be cheaper and easier to get a new stock. Already got the max drop from shims.

My target loads are 1 1/8oz 3 Dram 1200fps. Should that cycle fine?

BigJimP · April 21, 2012, 06:48 PM

Getting the drop at the comb and the heel - and length of pull right is a big issue for all of us ....or deciding if you need a parallel comb gun / where the comb is parallel to the rib ...and then a parallel comb with an adj comb built in to it...for maximum adjustability.

In general - a semi-auto or pump with a 28" barrel is about the same overall length as an O/U with a 30" barrel ....( pumps and semi-autos have the extra 2" in the receiver area...

but again, in general - a pump, semi-auto - with a 28" barrel will give you a longer sight plane - and its a plus for hunting birds or for shooting clay targets...whether its Trap, skeet or sporting clays. For the same reason a lot of us that play the clay target games - have gone to 30" barrels on O/U's for general shooting - upland birds, Skeet and Sporting Clays ...and 32" O/U's for Trap ( where you have less left to right barrel movement ).

I'd say trade the 870 ...and keep the 3901 until you're really certain about this fit issue...( but the only way you can really tell if it fits ..is to take it to a pattern board ). You might be able to fix all this with a $30 comb pad...to raise it up a little....

But most of us find a semi-auto in 28" or an O/U in 30" to be optimal ...

But having said that ...you should shoot what you want / most importantly what Fits - so it hits where you look. If you need less drop at the comb ( comb higher ) ...you should at least shoot some parallel comb O/U's ( like a Browning XS Skeet model or a Browning XT Trap model ) and get a feel of whether that style of comb will give you a better fit.

There are 2 big issues in "Tactical or a Fighting shotgun" vs a "defensive shotgun" ...and its my contention that any shotgun - even with a 28" barrel is a good defensive shotgun ...where it might not be an optimal "fighting shotgun" ...fighting shotguns may not be something you'll ever need.

I'd say focus on Fit ...and something you can have some fun with for clays.../ but I'd certainly recommend you reconsider any barrel under 28" as a gun that might end up real "whippy" ...where a longer barrel, will give you a much better follow-thru.

Drummer101 · April 21, 2012, 07:02 PM

Both of my current shotguns shoot high. Really have to bury my face into the stock to see strait to the front bead with no rib. The 870 is a little better for drop but could use a ever so lightly long LOP which I just have to order a shim for it at some point if I keep it.

I am not looking for a "fighting" shotgun.

But something I can use for slugs once and awhile to make stuff explode, hunt just about anything with legs or wings, and good enough at clays for practice.

The M2 3 gun seems prefect but WAY to expensive. But even that has .5inch less drop in the heel and over 1 inch less drop in the comb (adjustable) than my 870... But yet the Benelli Nova I used (same size stock as M2) pointed very well.

I have about $500 cash, an 870 and a 3901 to bargain with.

340 Weatherby · April 21, 2012, 09:06 PM

If the comb is too high on the 870 you just need a little patience, a wood wrasp and some files and sandpaper.

Drummer101 · April 21, 2012, 09:10 PM

It is a synthetic stock on both of them

Drummer101 · April 22, 2012, 12:02 AM

The goals of my last purchase

Removable chokes
vent rib
Barrel less than 24 inch
Cycle target loads (1 1/8oz 3 dram 1200fps)
2 3/4 slugs
front bead
Full length mag tube

But when I got it I did not know about some of the options from the 3 gun market.

Those including
Remington 1100 Tac 4
And Benelli M2 21 inch
The FN seems to be rifle sights only so it is out

Now I have $500 cash plus, a Bontrager Mountain Bike, a Beretta 3901 and a 18.5inch 870 to bargain with and wont have any more money for at least another year and a half (literally).

The 870 fits much better than the Beretta and I used a Benelli Nova that has the same stock dimensions as the M2 and it felt pretty darn good.
Would the Remington run the target loads all the time??

johnwilliamson062 · April 22, 2012, 02:06 AM

Will it run targe loads all the time?

If it would I don't think they would have made the 11-87.

I used an 11-87 for trap and some sporting clays and did not like it in the end. It was ALWAYS dirty. I was using cheap shells, but at 200 rounds I had problems sometimes.

My guess is an 1100 would be worse.

My main problem was the cost of barrels. i wanted a semi auto for which I could get a full battery of barrels at a reasonable price. I found the Mossberg new factory barrels were cheaper than used/3rd party 11-87 barrels. 1100s were cheaper, but not by much. Of course, this plan assumed I would get a dedicated over under for competitive shooting.

Virginian · April 22, 2012, 05:22 AM

For 2-3/4" loads an 1100 is usually a better choice than an 11-87. The 11-87 was developed to give 2-3/4" and 3" flexibility, not because there was anything wrong with an 1100. The reason the 1100 design has been the same for so long is because it works. Before the O/U became the in gun to have, 1100s DOMINATED the Skeet fields, and you shoot a few rounds doing that, I know.
With dirty shells, and 11-87 will run dirtier than an 1100 because it has bigger gas ports and bleeds off the excess gasses. The only difference between them is the barrel gas system, and the Target Model 11-87s were basically 1100s with no gas relief system and 2-3/4" chambers.
If you don't mind a 5 minute spray and wipe every 400 rounds or less, an 1100 will serve you as well as anything going. I have been shooting them for 49 years , and a boatload of other shotguns have come and gone, but I have yet to find anything I like better

Drummer101 · April 22, 2012, 10:04 AM

The most I ever shoot is about 100 and maybe 150 in an afternoon.

And even after 100 rounds I could use a little break and could give the gun a quick going over.

Quote:

Will it run targe loads all the time?

If it would I don't think they would have made the 11-87.

Originally I thought the 11-87 was so it could run 3 and 2 3/4 inch shells, not because it could not run 2 3/4 (granted there is a large range of 2 3/4).

BigJimP · April 22, 2012, 03:58 PM

You should buy whatever you want ....

I was just trying to speak to the issue of fit ..and barrel lengths in terms of what most of us would consider general use shotguns ( for hunting, etc )...

Each of us is different...but my general purpose O/U's ( 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and even a .410 ) are at least 7.5 lbs ...and I like them at 8.5 lbs ...with 30" barrels ...so they swing smoothly and I get a nice follow thru. If I go to a lighter gun ...at around 7 lbs ...( like a Benelli super sport in a semi-auto ) I want a 30" barrel so the gun doesn't get too whippy / the longer barrel helps me stay in the gun better - where I tend to "slap" at birds or targets vs a smooth follow-thru if I go to a gun that's too short or way too light. My buddy on the other hand favors a 26" O/U - but he goes heavier to a little over 9 lbs... he likes the shorter feel and the heavier gun - helps on his follow thru / and if he goes to a semi-auto like a Rem 1100 he goes to a 28" barrel and a gun at around 8 lbs....so part of this journey for you / is figuring out this handling characteristic for you ...vs me ..or my buddy ....there is no wrong or right answer ..../ its what fits you(meaning it hits where you look ) ...and what you like for handling and swing characteristics.

As long as you're confident both of your guns are shooting high ...(and you've verified it at a pattern board ) ....then there isn't much you can do on a synthetic stocked gun after you've exhausted their shim options. But if you haven't - at least take it to a pattern board / with a full choke in it --at 25 yds and shoot at a 3" spot on the board ....to really verify where the gun is hitting vs where you are looking .../ maybe get someone who has experience in determining a shotguns point of impact - and fit - to give you a hand.../ just to make sure you're not "rolling into" the gun or doing something that is exaggerating the issue in how you're mounting the gun.

If nothing else ....try to shoot some other guns - with other stock configurations at the pattern board ...so you can determine the exact stock dimensions you need ( for the gun to hit where you look ) ...and length of pull. So then you can effectively shop for a gun and know if it fits or not ...before you buy.

Most any 12ga gun that will cycle 3" shells - will also cycle 2 3/4" shells -- as long as they are at least 1200 fps ( even 7/8 oz in a 12ga should cycle as long as its at 1200 fps ). Even my Benelli inertia 12ga will cycle loads of 7/8oz as long as they're 1200 fps ...which is a light target load. It should not matter if they are 1 1/8 oz, or 1 oz, or 7/8 oz ....as long as the velocity is at or just a little above 1200 fps ( which in general is what a 3 Dr Eq shell is )....

johnwilliamson062 · April 22, 2012, 08:10 PM

I wouldn't buy a gun based on fit. If you are really going to shoot it another stock with different LOP is a cheap accessory in the scheme of things.

I wasn't around in 1987, but there are a lot of 1100s running 3 inch shells. Maybe this is a new thing, but if so I would guess the 11-87 would be phased out.

I am basing that off what some old guys with expensive over unders who were around in 1987 told me. Maybe they don't know. I do know the 11-87 runs every shell I have fed it well when clean. I was shooting Rio, which is absurdly dirty in the first place, but still prefer a gun that can go more than 10 rounds with it.

BigJimP · April 25, 2012, 06:53 PM

In my opinion ....every shotgun purchased ...should be based primarily on "Fit" because if it doesn't "Fit" - it will not hit where you look. The rear sight on all shotguns is your eye...so the point of impact on a shotgun at 25 yds can be off quite a bit ( 12" - 18" easily ) vs the point you are looking at ..as you mount the gun - if the drop at comb and heel and length of pull do not "fit" you.

Fit adjustments can be made with comb pads, restocking(which is expensive), etc....

Rem 1100's were first introduced in 1963 ...and they're still in production today. Most of them were made with 3" chambers ...but they will all cycle 2 3/4" shells...if they are kept clean and properly lubed.

Remington introduced the model 11-87 in 1987 ...and they introduced it with a modified gas system - so it could handle a wider variety of shells. Its also still in production today...

This issue of a wider variety of shells ...is interesting...but it mostly applies to "hunting guns" ...where a hunter shooting upland birds - might put a light velocity shell in for the 1st shell ( say 1200 fps 1oz ) -- then go to a heavier shell ...maybe faster /different pellet sizes, etc...for 2nd .../ and a heavier velocity shell for his 3rd shell..../ and some of the older 1100's especially if they are not kept clean - would jam....so the 11-87 was supposed to fix that issue .../ but depending on who you talk to ...it was never an issue to start with.

I have a buddy that shoots an 1100 that was made in the 80's as an inclement weather gun for clays ...and it cycles 2 3/4" shells in a 12ga at 1150 fps and only 7/8 oz of shot ...100% and it has a 3" chamber.

My very modern Benelli super sport model 12ga ...an inertia gun ... will not cycle any shell under 1200 fps reliably ...( and it has a 3" chamber as well ) but it will shoot 2 3/4" shells at 1200 fps all day ...every day ...even for 500 shells ( 20 boxes or more ) ...without being cleaned ..( and no gas/or darn few gas guns will do that ) ....but most gas guns - will shoot those lighter shells at 1150 fps....and my Benelli Super Sport will jam often on them ...

a. So buy a gun that "Fits" you...
b. Most any gas guns chambered in 3" ...will cycle 2 3/4 shells ...even the very light target loads at 1150 fps...and 7/8 oz of shot.../ even the old technology like the Rem 1100's ...or the 11-87's / but I do think the newer technology of the Beretta 3901's or the Browning / Win gas guns with Brownings new activ valve system are a little better ...or more reliable ...and less finnicky as they get dirty...
c. Inertia guns ...shoot very clean ...and are very reliable because they don't use the gas to cycle their actions....but many of them will balk at loads under 1200 fps...( and it doesn't matter if they're 7/8 oz, 1 oz, or 1 1/8oz shells...the issue is velocity ) ....

personally a gun like the Benelli super sport ...is my semi-auto of choice in a 12ga or a 20ga...they do everything pretty well as a travel gun ( a little skeet, some sporting clays, some upland birds...) ...- but the down side is they're expensive selling for around $ 1900 new in my area.../ but I also like the Browning silver hunter in a semi-auto ...and some of the Beretta options..for gas guns / Browning and Beretta both have a lot of models...especially Beretta.../ but have fun with your search...

zippy13 · April 25, 2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Rem 1100's were first introduced in 1963 ...and they're still in production today. Most of them were made with 3" chambers

Jim, my friend, I think you're confusing the 1100 and the 11-87. The 1100s made today are all 2 3/4" as are the majority of the ones out there. Only the 1100s with a "M" (magnum) prefix to the serial number were 3". I think you'll find that most 12-ga 1100s have the "V" (2 3/4") prefix.

IINM, all the standard 12-ga 11-87s have 3" chambers. It's one of the reasons they weren't well accepted by the competitive shooters who prefer 2 3/4" chambers.

As for gun fit: Unless you're an average sized shooter, don't be heartbroken if you can't find an off the shelf gun that fits. Expect to have some fitting done. As more and more shooters are realizing this, the gun makers are making more and more adjustable stocks. Your average big-box gun store doesn't have a stock man as almost every LGS used to have.

Drummer101 · April 25, 2012, 07:44 PM

Got some hopefully good news.

I think I might be able to swing getting a Benelli M2 21inch field synthetic. But I have to buy a new phone and RedWing boots this week

Walk down to the pawn shop (only fun store in town),
$500 cash
Trade a mountain bike (parents dropping it off next Thursday)
Trade Beretta 3901 if it does not sell before then
870 if I have to

I might have to put in a little extra but its my 21st in June so that helps a little.

I will want to save a little work money for a week after finals are over next week to have some wiggle room but that looks like it might work.

If I remember right the Benelli comes with lots of shims and when I used the Nova if fit me pretty well (better than my current ones). When I am in the cities next weekend I am going to try to hunt down an M2 to look at.

johnwilliamson062 · April 25, 2012, 11:12 PM

Quote:

restocking(which is expensive)

If you want a highgrade walnut stock it sure is.
If you want a synthetic stock that fits and functions it isn't that bad.

April 21, 2012, 02:47 PM	#1
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	What I should have bought When I got my 870 I wanted something short barrel basically as a slug gun (deer, turkey, milk jugs, and sometimes I feel the need to shoot a slug) and maybe HD when I get my own place while doing back yard clays. I have a 3901 which I dont like (fit issue) and even then I just find it rather large with a 28 inch barrel after using a friends 26 and 28 inch O/U. This is my current trap and skeet gun. To consolidate those guns (and an excuse for a new one) I am thinking about about going to the pawn shop/gun store where they say I can get a Remington 1100 Tac 4 for about $816. I would trade in my two current shotguns plus maybe a little cash if needed. It can be my slug gun (I dont like 3 inch shells anyway) Has removable chokes (was going to do this to my 870 eventually for turkey or even for longer range clays) Has a vent rib that I wish I had real bad on my 870 Little shorter than my 3901 (22inch vs. 28 inch) Less recoil than either (beretta has plastic pad) Sounds like a win all around. Sorry about horrible spelling, taking a break from homework and my brain is dead. PLEASE GO TO POST 10 FOR QUESTION __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin Last edited by Drummer101; April 21, 2012 at 11:58 PM.

April 21, 2012, 04:05 PM	#3
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	Needs more drop in the comb and with that it should be higher, a touch longer, and a rubber pad on the back. I was quoted about $600 from Cole's for a new stock. I did not know anything when I first bought it and in the store I assumed it worked. First shotgun. You need a gun smith to take out the duck plug. Granted I would have only known this if I bought it and used it. Hence it is going to go soon I hope. __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin

April 21, 2012, 04:19 PM	#5
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	Getting the drop is the hard part. Spoke to local guys and they said it would be cheaper and easier to get a new stock. Already got the max drop from shims. My target loads are 1 1/8oz 3 Dram 1200fps. Should that cycle fine? __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin Last edited by Drummer101; April 21, 2012 at 05:00 PM.

April 21, 2012, 07:02 PM	#7
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	Both of my current shotguns shoot high. Really have to bury my face into the stock to see strait to the front bead with no rib. The 870 is a little better for drop but could use a ever so lightly long LOP which I just have to order a shim for it at some point if I keep it. I am not looking for a "fighting" shotgun. But something I can use for slugs once and awhile to make stuff explode, hunt just about anything with legs or wings, and good enough at clays for practice. The M2 3 gun seems prefect but WAY to expensive. But even that has .5inch less drop in the heel and over 1 inch less drop in the comb (adjustable) than my 870... But yet the Benelli Nova I used (same size stock as M2) pointed very well. I have about $500 cash, an 870 and a 3901 to bargain with. __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin Last edited by Drummer101; April 21, 2012 at 09:13 PM.

April 21, 2012, 09:10 PM	#9
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	It is a synthetic stock on both of them __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin

April 21, 2012, 03:56 PM	#2
340 Weatherby Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 139	What is the fit issue with the 3901? Is it the length of pull or is it the drop of the comb. I would have thought you could buy a 26" barrel for the 3901, but a quick scan of beretta's web site didn't encourage me any. This is why when you buy a shotgun it needs to fit. Right off the rack if it doesn't feel like "oh baby,somethings gonna die", don't buy it. No matter how cheap it is, it has to fit or it's useless. Maybe someone else knows the secret to the beretta barrel availability. and whether your stock can be modifyed or not. I have a Browning B80 20 gauge that was built under the same patent as your gun and it is one of my most prized possessions. It is stocked a little higher than I would normally like but it kills valley quail like nothing else.

April 21, 2012, 04:16 PM	#4
340 Weatherby Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 139	Pretty hard to put a $600 dollar stock on a $600 dollar gun. If you know a good gunsmith he may be willing to remove your stock recoil pad and stick a longer one on it with some tape to see how it feels to you. As lengthening the stock will change the position of your face on the gun, raising the comb slightly in the process.

April 21, 2012, 06:48 PM	#6
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Getting the drop at the comb and the heel - and length of pull right is a big issue for all of us ....or deciding if you need a parallel comb gun / where the comb is parallel to the rib ...and then a parallel comb with an adj comb built in to it...for maximum adjustability. In general - a semi-auto or pump with a 28" barrel is about the same overall length as an O/U with a 30" barrel ....( pumps and semi-autos have the extra 2" in the receiver area... but again, in general - a pump, semi-auto - with a 28" barrel will give you a longer sight plane - and its a plus for hunting birds or for shooting clay targets...whether its Trap, skeet or sporting clays. For the same reason a lot of us that play the clay target games - have gone to 30" barrels on O/U's for general shooting - upland birds, Skeet and Sporting Clays ...and 32" O/U's for Trap ( where you have less left to right barrel movement ). I'd say trade the 870 ...and keep the 3901 until you're really certain about this fit issue...( but the only way you can really tell if it fits ..is to take it to a pattern board ). You might be able to fix all this with a $30 comb pad...to raise it up a little.... But most of us find a semi-auto in 28" or an O/U in 30" to be optimal ... But having said that ...you should shoot what you want / most importantly what Fits - so it hits where you look. If you need less drop at the comb ( comb higher ) ...you should at least shoot some parallel comb O/U's ( like a Browning XS Skeet model or a Browning XT Trap model ) and get a feel of whether that style of comb will give you a better fit. There are 2 big issues in "Tactical or a Fighting shotgun" vs a "defensive shotgun" ...and its my contention that any shotgun - even with a 28" barrel is a good defensive shotgun ...where it might not be an optimal "fighting shotgun" ...fighting shotguns may not be something you'll ever need. I'd say focus on Fit ...and something you can have some fun with for clays.../ but I'd certainly recommend you reconsider any barrel under 28" as a gun that might end up real "whippy" ...where a longer barrel, will give you a much better follow-thru.

April 21, 2012, 09:06 PM	#8
340 Weatherby Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 139	If the comb is too high on the 870 you just need a little patience, a wood wrasp and some files and sandpaper.

April 22, 2012, 12:02 AM	#10
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	The goals of my last purchase Removable chokes vent rib Barrel less than 24 inch Cycle target loads (1 1/8oz 3 dram 1200fps) 2 3/4 slugs front bead Full length mag tube But when I got it I did not know about some of the options from the 3 gun market. Those including Remington 1100 Tac 4 And Benelli M2 21 inch The FN seems to be rifle sights only so it is out Now I have $500 cash plus, a Bontrager Mountain Bike, a Beretta 3901 and a 18.5inch 870 to bargain with and wont have any more money for at least another year and a half (literally). The 870 fits much better than the Beretta and I used a Benelli Nova that has the same stock dimensions as the M2 and it felt pretty darn good. Would the Remington run the target loads all the time?? __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin Last edited by Drummer101; April 22, 2012 at 10:01 AM.

April 22, 2012, 02:06 AM	#11
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Will it run targe loads all the time? If it would I don't think they would have made the 11-87. I used an 11-87 for trap and some sporting clays and did not like it in the end. It was ALWAYS dirty. I was using cheap shells, but at 200 rounds I had problems sometimes. My guess is an 1100 would be worse. My main problem was the cost of barrels. i wanted a semi auto for which I could get a full battery of barrels at a reasonable price. I found the Mossberg new factory barrels were cheaper than used/3rd party 11-87 barrels. 1100s were cheaper, but not by much. Of course, this plan assumed I would get a dedicated over under for competitive shooting.

April 22, 2012, 05:22 AM	#12
Virginian Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2012 Location: Williamsburg, Va. Posts: 1,528	For 2-3/4" loads an 1100 is usually a better choice than an 11-87. The 11-87 was developed to give 2-3/4" and 3" flexibility, not because there was anything wrong with an 1100. The reason the 1100 design has been the same for so long is because it works. Before the O/U became the in gun to have, 1100s DOMINATED the Skeet fields, and you shoot a few rounds doing that, I know. With dirty shells, and 11-87 will run dirtier than an 1100 because it has bigger gas ports and bleeds off the excess gasses. The only difference between them is the barrel gas system, and the Target Model 11-87s were basically 1100s with no gas relief system and 2-3/4" chambers. If you don't mind a 5 minute spray and wipe every 400 rounds or less, an 1100 will serve you as well as anything going. I have been shooting them for 49 years , and a boatload of other shotguns have come and gone, but I have yet to find anything I like better

April 22, 2012, 03:58 PM	#14
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You should buy whatever you want .... I was just trying to speak to the issue of fit ..and barrel lengths in terms of what most of us would consider general use shotguns ( for hunting, etc )... Each of us is different...but my general purpose O/U's ( 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and even a .410 ) are at least 7.5 lbs ...and I like them at 8.5 lbs ...with 30" barrels ...so they swing smoothly and I get a nice follow thru. If I go to a lighter gun ...at around 7 lbs ...( like a Benelli super sport in a semi-auto ) I want a 30" barrel so the gun doesn't get too whippy / the longer barrel helps me stay in the gun better - where I tend to "slap" at birds or targets vs a smooth follow-thru if I go to a gun that's too short or way too light. My buddy on the other hand favors a 26" O/U - but he goes heavier to a little over 9 lbs... he likes the shorter feel and the heavier gun - helps on his follow thru / and if he goes to a semi-auto like a Rem 1100 he goes to a 28" barrel and a gun at around 8 lbs....so part of this journey for you / is figuring out this handling characteristic for you ...vs me ..or my buddy ....there is no wrong or right answer ..../ its what fits you(meaning it hits where you look ) ...and what you like for handling and swing characteristics. As long as you're confident both of your guns are shooting high ...(and you've verified it at a pattern board ) ....then there isn't much you can do on a synthetic stocked gun after you've exhausted their shim options. But if you haven't - at least take it to a pattern board / with a full choke in it --at 25 yds and shoot at a 3" spot on the board ....to really verify where the gun is hitting vs where you are looking .../ maybe get someone who has experience in determining a shotguns point of impact - and fit - to give you a hand.../ just to make sure you're not "rolling into" the gun or doing something that is exaggerating the issue in how you're mounting the gun. If nothing else ....try to shoot some other guns - with other stock configurations at the pattern board ...so you can determine the exact stock dimensions you need ( for the gun to hit where you look ) ...and length of pull. So then you can effectively shop for a gun and know if it fits or not ...before you buy. Most any 12ga gun that will cycle 3" shells - will also cycle 2 3/4" shells -- as long as they are at least 1200 fps ( even 7/8 oz in a 12ga should cycle as long as its at 1200 fps ). Even my Benelli inertia 12ga will cycle loads of 7/8oz as long as they're 1200 fps ...which is a light target load. It should not matter if they are 1 1/8 oz, or 1 oz, or 7/8 oz ....as long as the velocity is at or just a little above 1200 fps ( which in general is what a 3 Dr Eq shell is ).... Last edited by BigJimP; April 22, 2012 at 05:30 PM.

April 22, 2012, 08:10 PM	#15
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I wouldn't buy a gun based on fit. If you are really going to shoot it another stock with different LOP is a cheap accessory in the scheme of things. I wasn't around in 1987, but there are a lot of 1100s running 3 inch shells. Maybe this is a new thing, but if so I would guess the 11-87 would be phased out. I am basing that off what some old guys with expensive over unders who were around in 1987 told me. Maybe they don't know. I do know the 11-87 runs every shell I have fed it well when clean. I was shooting Rio, which is absurdly dirty in the first place, but still prefer a gun that can go more than 10 rounds with it.

April 25, 2012, 06:53 PM	#16
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	In my opinion ....every shotgun purchased ...should be based primarily on "Fit" because if it doesn't "Fit" - it will not hit where you look. The rear sight on all shotguns is your eye...so the point of impact on a shotgun at 25 yds can be off quite a bit ( 12" - 18" easily ) vs the point you are looking at ..as you mount the gun - if the drop at comb and heel and length of pull do not "fit" you. Fit adjustments can be made with comb pads, restocking(which is expensive), etc.... Rem 1100's were first introduced in 1963 ...and they're still in production today. Most of them were made with 3" chambers ...but they will all cycle 2 3/4" shells...if they are kept clean and properly lubed. Remington introduced the model 11-87 in 1987 ...and they introduced it with a modified gas system - so it could handle a wider variety of shells. Its also still in production today... This issue of a wider variety of shells ...is interesting...but it mostly applies to "hunting guns" ...where a hunter shooting upland birds - might put a light velocity shell in for the 1st shell ( say 1200 fps 1oz ) -- then go to a heavier shell ...maybe faster /different pellet sizes, etc...for 2nd .../ and a heavier velocity shell for his 3rd shell..../ and some of the older 1100's especially if they are not kept clean - would jam....so the 11-87 was supposed to fix that issue .../ but depending on who you talk to ...it was never an issue to start with. I have a buddy that shoots an 1100 that was made in the 80's as an inclement weather gun for clays ...and it cycles 2 3/4" shells in a 12ga at 1150 fps and only 7/8 oz of shot ...100% and it has a 3" chamber. My very modern Benelli super sport model 12ga ...an inertia gun ... will not cycle any shell under 1200 fps reliably ...( and it has a 3" chamber as well ) but it will shoot 2 3/4" shells at 1200 fps all day ...every day ...even for 500 shells ( 20 boxes or more ) ...without being cleaned ..( and no gas/or darn few gas guns will do that ) ....but most gas guns - will shoot those lighter shells at 1150 fps....and my Benelli Super Sport will jam often on them ... a. So buy a gun that "Fits" you... b. Most any gas guns chambered in 3" ...will cycle 2 3/4 shells ...even the very light target loads at 1150 fps...and 7/8 oz of shot.../ even the old technology like the Rem 1100's ...or the 11-87's / but I do think the newer technology of the Beretta 3901's or the Browning / Win gas guns with Brownings new activ valve system are a little better ...or more reliable ...and less finnicky as they get dirty... c. Inertia guns ...shoot very clean ...and are very reliable because they don't use the gas to cycle their actions....but many of them will balk at loads under 1200 fps...( and it doesn't matter if they're 7/8 oz, 1 oz, or 1 1/8oz shells...the issue is velocity ) .... personally a gun like the Benelli super sport ...is my semi-auto of choice in a 12ga or a 20ga...they do everything pretty well as a travel gun ( a little skeet, some sporting clays, some upland birds...) ...- but the down side is they're expensive selling for around $ 1900 new in my area.../ but I also like the Browning silver hunter in a semi-auto ...and some of the Beretta options..for gas guns / Browning and Beretta both have a lot of models...especially Beretta.../ but have fun with your search...

April 25, 2012, 07:44 PM	#18
Drummer101 Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 943	Got some hopefully good news. I think I might be able to swing getting a Benelli M2 21inch field synthetic. But I have to buy a new phone and RedWing boots this week Walk down to the pawn shop (only fun store in town), $500 cash Trade a mountain bike (parents dropping it off next Thursday) Trade Beretta 3901 if it does not sell before then 870 if I have to I might have to put in a little extra but its my 21st in June so that helps a little. I will want to save a little work money for a week after finals are over next week to have some wiggle room but that looks like it might work. If I remember right the Benelli comes with lots of shims and when I used the Nova if fit me pretty well (better than my current ones). When I am in the cities next weekend I am going to try to hunt down an M2 to look at. __________________ "I would say that we have to make up criteria." OK, which is better for 2 Bantu, 5 Hottentots, and 3 pygmies playing a war march on a calliope at 3 a.m. during a monsoon? Show your work and round to the nearest decimal. -Mike Irwin Last edited by Drummer101; April 25, 2012 at 07:49 PM.