Encounter with a gunman last night (long post)

[jfrey123]

So I thought I'd submit an event for the review of the forum, let the guys here Armchair Quarterback and tell me if I done good or overreacted.


Wednesday, 24 DEC 2008 at approximately 8:30PM. I'm exiting my girlfriends house, about to take (4) friends with me to go look at Christmas lights. As I put my hands on the gate to exit the yard, I hear 3 distinct pops in the distance. It's enough to make me pause, I've now jumped from Yellow to Red. After about 5-10 seconds, I hear no more pops, and decide the ones I heard were a long ways off and are of little threat to me right now, so I drop to Orange and continue out the gate. 2 of the 4 friends are with me at this point, and didn't seem to notice the shots, even after I asked them.

So myself and the first two friends are now in my SUV, waiting on the last 2 people to exit the house. As they make it to the SUV and enter, I notice a white male in a leather jacket walking in our direction (Eastbound) on the opposite side of the street. This male steps off the sidewalk and begins approaching my driver's window, making a fairly polite motion to roll down my window and indicating he wants to talk. POSSIBLY, a mistake on my part, but I comply and crack the window approx 3 inches. He asks me if I've heard any gun shots. I respond that I heard some sort of popping, that I'm not entirely sure if it was gunshots (could've been firecrackers for all I know). He indicated where he thought they had come from, and I responded that I thought they might have come from a different direction, in my opinion. He stands there for a second, not sure if he was trying to continue the conversation, but ends up saying thanks and walking away from my car. He leaves going back the direction he came from (Westbound now) but crosses in front of my headlights, and for the story, this happens to be the direction he indicated the shots came from. As he crosses in front of my headlights, I now see his leather jacket does not cover his belt in the back, and this exposes a OWB black holster with a pistol, the steel magazine is shining brightly in my headlamps. I make the comment to my 4 friends in the car "Hey, he's got a gun". Literally, right after I say that, he raises his right arm and REMOVES THE PISTOL FROM THE HOLSTER. The clear image of a stainless, full frame pistol in his hand out to the side is etched into my mind.

This is the last thing I see from the man. Given that I don't believe he was a direct threat to me, I quickly elect to retreat. I put my SUV in reverse, and proceed to retreat as fast as I can in reverse (before you criticize my emergency reverse, the street was well lit and empty, and I've taken courses in driving that covered this maneuver, I was not a risk to the public by emergency reversing). We got about half way down the GF's block, she's already got 911 ringing on the cell phone per my instruction. We parked, I reported a full description to the police dispatcher and informed her the man was "brandishing a firearm, gun IN HAND". Dispatcher said officers were in route. And that's where my story ends. I pulled a u-turn and made my way out of there.




Personal Review: I'm not a cop. This man did not directly threaten us, did not attempt anything funny while talking to him, and therefore I do not believe it was my place to confront the individual. I had a clear route of escape for myself and the (4) passengers of my vehicle, and believe my best course of action was to retreat. I called the police because brandishing a firearm is against Nevada law. I would not have called the cops if I had only seen the gun on his hip, OC is legal in Nevada. I only called because he brought it out of it's holster. My personal opinion, after dwelling on this, is that this person was an overzealous armed citizen, who thought they'd to protect the neighborhood or something. He might have even been a CCW carrier, I do not know. I feel I did the right thing, I feel Armed Citizens shouldn't be walking down the street looking for trouble except for the rarest of SHTF/EOTWASKI situations, and for all I know the police stopping him might have saved him from wandering into a deadly situation or having another armed citizen taking him out.

Sorry for the long post. Lots of people here post their experiences when something close to this happens, and I figured I'd submit this for the review of my fellow forum members.

[B.N.Real]

jfrey123,glad to read you got out of there without any heroics.

Smartest move you could have made.

Merry Christmas.

[Wagonman]

Sounds like you may have been talking to a plain clothes copper. Good situational awareness.

[Crankylove]

You made sure you, and those around you were out of danger, and called the police to let them handle whatever situation was developing. Sounds like you did the right thing to me.

[johnwilliamson062]

I approve. I am so confident I added an extra arm to my chair.

[Shorts]

You did well. You got yourself and your friends out of there. You got the cops on the line.

You could not be sure if the pops were gunshots or not. And you did not know if that guy was a good guy or a bad guy. There was no definitive reason for you to get involved any further and you weren't backed into a corner.

All in all, the goal we all have as CCWers is to keep ourselves safe, period. You did that.

[Chipperman]

I think what you did was the best course of action.

If the guy WAS a cop, it sounds pretty dumb for him to head toward possible trouble with no backup, gun drawn, no visible badge, etc.

If he WAS NOT a cop, it was dumber still.

[Bud Helms]

Let's take this to Tactics & Training.

[Creature]

If the guy WAS a cop, it sounds pretty dumb for him to head toward possible trouble with no backup, gun drawn, no visible badge, etc.

That what cops do. Uniformed or plain clothes. They head in the direction of trouble.

[Wagonman]

+1 creature

[ElectricHellfire]

Sounds like you did the right thing.

[Flyover Country]

I concur with the others; you did the right thing. We have a responsibility as gun owners to retreat, defuse the situation or otherwise avoid conflict, with armed response to hostile behavior as a last resort. Good SA, in any case.

[badguybuster]

I concur that you were likely talking to some form of LEO and had you appeared to be a threat it could have gone VERY badly for you. You did well and I think all will approve.

[BuckHammer]

There was no injury to yourself or your family/friends and no damages to anything, and the police were informed of the event. Sounds like you get a perfect score of 10 out of 10 for your actions.

[skoro]

In a situation where you next to nothing about who's who or what's really happening, it's best to NOT involve yourself. Like others have mentioned, you could very well have had a brief conversation with a plainclothes cop.

[glock19xdsc]

You did good by not involving yourself to a greater extent. However, the color code as explained by Jeff Cooper:

"I have been teaching the Color Code for about 30 years now, but I have not been teaching it well. I keep seeing something handed back to me which purports to be what I have taught, but which is not. Clearly I am not as much of a teacher as I would like to be.

I believe I can speak freely of the Color Code because as it applies to defensive pistolcraft I invented it. I cannot, of course, say that what I think is right, but only that what I have preached is just that - what I have preached. It works, and it satisfies me, but not all the time. I have scores of cases now from men I have taught and who have reported back to me that their understanding of a Color Code saved their lives. This, of course, is very satisfying, but I do wish the matter were more clearly understood.

The Color Code refers not to a condition of peril, but rather to a condition of readiness to take life. Fortunately most people are very reluctant to take lethal action against another human being. Most people are reluctant to shoot for blood on a harmless game animal, until they become used to it. To press the trigger on a human adversary calls for a wrenching effort of will which is always difficult to achieve and sometimes apparently impossible. Thus we live our days in Condition White, which may or may not have anything to do with our danger, since quite frequently we are in deadly danger and do not realize it. Any time you cross directions out on a two-lane highway you are at the mercy of that character coming towards you in the opposite direction. Usually he is okay, but when he is under some sort of chemical influence, or is psychologically upset, he may only twitch his wheel to produce a multiple fatal accident. Most of us would prefer to live in Condition White permanently, and many do, but those who are more aware of the nature of things are often in Yellow, which is a condition in which we are aware that the world is full of hazards which are human, and some of which may be obviated by our own defensive action. When one is in Condition Yellow he is aware that today may be the day. He is not in a combat mood, nor is he aware of any specific situation which may call for action on his part. There is a vital difference between White and Yellow, and it has to do not with any specific enemy or a set of circumstances, but rather with your awareness that you individually may have to take decisive action on this very day. If you are attacked in Condition White, you will probably die, or at least need a stretcher. If you are attacked in Condition Yellow, you will probably win, assuming that you are armed, awake and aware. The difference does not lie in the deadliness of the hazard facing you, but rather in your willingness to take a very unusual action.

If in the course of events you become aware of the possible existence in your presence of a lethal adversary, you switch from Yellow to Orange. The difference lies in the specific nature of your presumed antagonist, not in his evident competence or attitude. In Yellow you say to yourself, "I may have to shoot today." I may actually have to press my trigger on a human adversary, but I don't know who or where.

When you detect the presence of a target who may be the one you will have to engage, you shift from Yellow to Orange. In Yellow your mind-set is "I may have to shoot today." In Orange it is "I may have to shoot him today." At this point your normal reluctance becomes easier to overcome. Legal and moral aspects of the conflict are lowered and have been dismissed from your mind. Your attitude is dictated by the presence of that enemy standing there. You may have to shoot him, now, today. What is needed is a trigger. The trigger is the act establishing that the situation is indeed a matter of lethal conflict. This is Condition Red, and in Red you have solved the psychological problem and have no further concerns beyond the technical. In Red you are go, and your mind is concerned only with front-sight and surprise.

Moving from the various Conditions into each other is easy to accomplish once it is understood. If you are attacked in White you will lose the fight. In Yellow you will have the advantage of initiative response over your antagonist. In Orange you are pretty safe, provided you are armed, alert and aware. In Red you win. Simple, isn't it? Clearly you cannot go any further than Red because in Red you have already made the lethal decision. Complications are unproductive."

http://dvc.org.uk/jeff/jeff13_1.html

[KUHIO]

You done good!

[supergas452M]

On this site Richard Stefani teaches his color codes of awareness, which is probably what the OP was referring to. I prefer Coopers color code, as it refers to readiness.

[scorpion_tyr]

Sounds like you did the very right thing to me. As pointed out earlier it could have been a plain clothes or under cover LE. Or it could have been a rival gangmember, ****** off boyfriend, escaped convict, concerned citizen who's had enough and has seen too many Punisher comics, former alien abductee who's not going back, etc. All you knew was it was a guy with a gun. You got out of there. Smart choice. Especially since my experience has always been that people run to: fist fights and knife fights. People run away from: gun fights. Anyone who's going looking for a gunfight is either dumb or a cop.

[PhilA]

...what if what you did was end up calling in a "man with a gun" scenario on one of your fellow forum members who was also in condition orange and who decided at that moment to give himself a tactical advantage by moving his pistol from his OWB to his jacket pocket?

Seems to me you were pretty quick to call in a man with a gun alert with no real threat.

[BikerRN]

Ya' done good.

Evasive driving is just that, and often done in reverse when the "threat" is in front of you. Given the situation, it seems you did the best thing you could, which is to put distance between you and a potential threat. I will not, nor should I or anybody else fault your driving technique, IMHO.

Very good move, IMO, in calling the on-duty constabulary and not involving yourself in this situation when the person pulled his gun from it's holster. You do not know who he was. It could have been a fellow CCW Permit holder, off duty/plainclothes LEO, gangbanger, dad of a teenage mutant ninja, Lady Godiva in drag. The point is, you don't know, and it's not your place to try and identify him beyond what you did by describing him to the 911 Operator.

Off Duty I would have done no more than you did. We hear gunshots all the time in my neighborhood, and it's a "good" neighborhood for the area. I can't wait to get a transfer and move out in the "sticks" again.

Biker

[Wagonman]

Sorry Phill, he did right-----unless you have an identifiable threat you do not unholster your weapon in public.

[Socrates]

Sounds like an undercover officer doing his job.

Good work.

[troy_mclure]

how many police agencys issue shiny ss pistols?

probaly a gang banger.

[Wagonman]

I carried a "shiny" 4586 for a long time on duty.