Advice on accuracy please.

EVOIXGSR · March 13, 2008, 08:57 PM

Went to the range today to shoot my new XD-45 ACP tacticle bi-tone. Shot 200 rounds of WWB(230gr.) at 25 ft with 13rnd mags. Here are some pictures of the results. Most of the target look very similiar in grouping. Also, I am fairly new at deciphering target groups and what they mean, but from what I have seen these patterns mean I am jerking right?

1 mag

2mags

Casimer · March 13, 2008, 09:44 PM

Those aren't bad, you're getting a discernable group.

Have you shot from a rest, or similarly stable position, to determine whether your sights are set properly?

If so, you might be anticipating the recoil of your pistol and tensing your grip at the last moment. That can cause shots to break low. The LH bias might be trigger finger placement. But truthfully it's very hard to diagnose targets w/o first observing the shooter - even then it's only an educated guess.

A good way to determine what's happening as you press the trigger is to dry fire the pistol and keep a sharp eye on your sight alignment. Also ball and dummy drills can be useful ( i.e. you mix a dummy round with live ammo so that you can observe any flinching or other erratic movement prior to the release of a shot).

SLOMountaineer · March 13, 2008, 09:57 PM

It looks to me like you are steady and your sights just need a little adjustment. A good consistent group such as you have there with a couple of fliers seems to indicate the need for a slight sight adjustment.

1SOW · March 13, 2008, 10:47 PM

If you are shooting slow, check the shooting chart below.
Also check your grip for consistancy. This video helped me a lot. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...363&pr=goog-sl

chris in va · March 14, 2008, 12:48 AM

Looks like you're flinching to me. If this is your first 'high recoil' gun, it's understandable.

Try this next time. Get some snap caps, have a friend load a few 'live' rounds in with a couple caps. You have no idea which ones will not fire.

Watch your gun, not the target. When you flinch, the gun will be pressed forward in anticipation of recoil.

One thing that helps me with flinching is concentration on ONLY the trigger, and my finger. Focus your mind on just moving the pad of your finger back, nothing else.

EVOIXGSR · March 14, 2008, 03:58 PM

thanks for the advice guys. I'll try it tomorrow at the range and let you know how I did

Lurper · March 14, 2008, 05:18 PM

Are you shooting one handed or two? Are you trying to shoot for bullseye accuracy or practical accuracy. How fast are you shooting? These questions need to be answered before a detailed analysis can be provided. The target can't tell you as much as watching the shooter can.
This may help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgLmQl1zDw

Shoot from sandbags or a rest at 25 feet. If you consistently hit in the same spot from the rest (and it is not where you intend), then it is most likely the sights. If not, it is most likely trigger manipulation.
The best advice is to seek professional instruction.

EVOIXGSR · March 14, 2008, 05:26 PM

On both targets I would say that for the first 2 or 3 shots they were about 2 seconds apart and then I would shoot a bit faster at about 1 second between shots.

Dustinthewind · March 15, 2008, 07:50 AM

If you are shooting right handed, how much of the trigger finger are you using? Inserting the trigger finger to the second joint will make you shoot low and left if you are shooting right handed. Use only the first joint of the finger on the trigger.

JollyRoger · March 15, 2008, 08:51 AM

The classic location for flinching with an auto is down and left for a right-hander. Possible here, but you really need to fire at a greater distance to see what you are doing: if you are really flinching, you should see that big hole at 8 o'clock spread out at 25 yards. If it doesn't happen, you could be dealing with something else like a slight sight adjustment. I have shot on indoor ranges where uneven lighting might throw a group a little left or right, and sometimes that same thing happens outdoors if the sun is at an angle and casts a little shadow on the front sight.

Or you could try ball and dummy drills to see if you are flinching.

Bogie · March 16, 2008, 12:24 AM

Stick one of those targets on a larger sheet at about seven yards, and shoot the dang thing, as fast as you can, concentrating only on front sight. See what you're doing then.

EVOIXGSR · March 16, 2008, 09:43 AM

i think i am flinching a bit, and I noticed that I am grabbing the trigger with my joint and not the pad of my finger.

bufordtjustice · March 17, 2008, 05:49 PM

For the two large groups I would say probably flinching and jerking the trigger. Like others said, that is without watching you shoot. The "fliers" that are all over the place probably just come down to not watching the front sight post and chasing rounds.

March 13, 2008, 08:57 PM	#1
EVOIXGSR Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Posts: 82	Advice on accuracy please. Went to the range today to shoot my new XD-45 ACP tacticle bi-tone. Shot 200 rounds of WWB(230gr.) at 25 ft with 13rnd mags. Here are some pictures of the results. Most of the target look very similiar in grouping. Also, I am fairly new at deciphering target groups and what they mean, but from what I have seen these patterns mean I am jerking right? 1 mag 2mags

March 13, 2008, 10:47 PM	#4
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	Shooting Fast or slow? If you are shooting slow, check the shooting chart below. Also check your grip for consistancy. This video helped me a lot. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...363&pr=goog-sl

March 16, 2008, 12:24 AM	#11
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Stick one of those targets on a larger sheet at about seven yards, and shoot the dang thing, as fast as you can, concentrating only on front sight. See what you're doing then. __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 13, 2008, 09:44 PM	#2
Casimer Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2007 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 1,918	Those aren't bad, you're getting a discernable group. Have you shot from a rest, or similarly stable position, to determine whether your sights are set properly? If so, you might be anticipating the recoil of your pistol and tensing your grip at the last moment. That can cause shots to break low. The LH bias might be trigger finger placement. But truthfully it's very hard to diagnose targets w/o first observing the shooter - even then it's only an educated guess. A good way to determine what's happening as you press the trigger is to dry fire the pistol and keep a sharp eye on your sight alignment. Also ball and dummy drills can be useful ( i.e. you mix a dummy round with live ammo so that you can observe any flinching or other erratic movement prior to the release of a shot).

March 13, 2008, 09:57 PM	#3
SLOMountaineer Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 238	It looks to me like you are steady and your sights just need a little adjustment. A good consistent group such as you have there with a couple of fliers seems to indicate the need for a slight sight adjustment.

March 14, 2008, 12:48 AM	#5
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Looks like you're flinching to me. If this is your first 'high recoil' gun, it's understandable. Try this next time. Get some snap caps, have a friend load a few 'live' rounds in with a couple caps. You have no idea which ones will not fire. Watch your gun, not the target. When you flinch, the gun will be pressed forward in anticipation of recoil. One thing that helps me with flinching is concentration on ONLY the trigger, and my finger. Focus your mind on just moving the pad of your finger back, nothing else.

March 14, 2008, 03:58 PM	#6
EVOIXGSR Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Posts: 82	thanks for the advice guys. I'll try it tomorrow at the range and let you know how I did

March 14, 2008, 05:18 PM	#7
Lurper Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2006 Posts: 943	Are you shooting one handed or two? Are you trying to shoot for bullseye accuracy or practical accuracy. How fast are you shooting? These questions need to be answered before a detailed analysis can be provided. The target can't tell you as much as watching the shooter can. This may help: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQgLmQl1zDw Shoot from sandbags or a rest at 25 feet. If you consistently hit in the same spot from the rest (and it is not where you intend), then it is most likely the sights. If not, it is most likely trigger manipulation. The best advice is to seek professional instruction.

March 14, 2008, 05:26 PM	#8
EVOIXGSR Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Posts: 82	On both targets I would say that for the first 2 or 3 shots they were about 2 seconds apart and then I would shoot a bit faster at about 1 second between shots.

March 15, 2008, 07:50 AM	#9
Dustinthewind Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 15	If you are shooting right handed, how much of the trigger finger are you using? Inserting the trigger finger to the second joint will make you shoot low and left if you are shooting right handed. Use only the first joint of the finger on the trigger.

March 15, 2008, 08:51 AM	#10
JollyRoger Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2005 Posts: 172	The classic location for flinching with an auto is down and left for a right-hander. Possible here, but you really need to fire at a greater distance to see what you are doing: if you are really flinching, you should see that big hole at 8 o'clock spread out at 25 yards. If it doesn't happen, you could be dealing with something else like a slight sight adjustment. I have shot on indoor ranges where uneven lighting might throw a group a little left or right, and sometimes that same thing happens outdoors if the sun is at an angle and casts a little shadow on the front sight. Or you could try ball and dummy drills to see if you are flinching.

March 16, 2008, 09:43 AM	#12
EVOIXGSR Member Join Date: March 7, 2008 Posts: 82	i think i am flinching a bit, and I noticed that I am grabbing the trigger with my joint and not the pad of my finger.

March 17, 2008, 05:49 PM	#13
bufordtjustice Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Posts: 279	For the two large groups I would say probably flinching and jerking the trigger. Like others said, that is without watching you shoot. The "fliers" that are all over the place probably just come down to not watching the front sight post and chasing rounds.