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February 27, 2006, 09:48 PM | #1 |
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Who thinks a Magnum round....
Who thinks a magnum round would be an ideal defense round in an enclosed metropolitan area?
While it is more effective...it can be too much of a good thing it seems to me. 1) It is loud. Not something you want in an enclosed area for your ears sake 2) It can penetrate more. Not something you want in a public place with more people and property around. But on the other hand, do the fact that most magnum defense round are hollowpoint help alleviate this problem? |
February 27, 2006, 09:51 PM | #2 |
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What do you mean by 'magnum'? Are we talking .357 mag vs .38 special, or .460 S&W?
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February 27, 2006, 09:56 PM | #3 |
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any kind of magnum. .357, .44 or .41. A .357 alone will penetrate more than a .38 special a .44 special or even .45 acp or .40 caliber. It's louder than any of those from my experience at the range
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February 27, 2006, 10:56 PM | #4 |
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I think any round is ideal if you're thinking about the backstop.
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February 27, 2006, 11:30 PM | #5 |
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General rules don't work. A 357 mag with a 125 JHP is going to penetrate less than a 38 with a SWC given the same hit on a human body for instance. Lots of lower velocity JHP bullets penetrate more than a similar weight and construction bullet at higher velocity.
I could care less about going deaf, as long as I live through it all is well. That all said, I want a 357 magnum or a 40+ caliber gun for home defense. I don't feel at all ill equipped with a 38 though, but if possible I want more powerful cartridges. |
February 28, 2006, 02:27 PM | #6 |
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I'm with HSMITH on this one. A light and fast bullet is not going to over-penetrate. With solid non-expanding bullets a faster bullet will penetrate more. Its not the case with JHPs. A 158gr. JHP is not any louder than a supersonic 9mm load and does not have any muzzle flash whatsoever. As long as I survive the incident, my hearing is of secondary importance. I find that I can shoot my 357 revolvers much more accurately than my semi-autos. I'm good out to 50yds with my revolvers. Its not just the Magnum cartridge itself but also the weapon platform.
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February 28, 2006, 02:51 PM | #7 |
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i would use my .357 magnum for a home defense weapon... i do have some hollow base wadcutters loaded in backwards loaded at around 1200 fps but i'd hesitate to use em on a human target... like they sad a .38 caliber bullet at magnum velocities penitrate like hell so be be sure of your backstop if you have a choice.... i stopped shooting possums in town with bullets and switched to speer shot capsules full of shot for fear of putting a bullet into a neighbors house... not good at all! the shot loads with # 2 shot take out the small critters very well thank you ...........
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February 28, 2006, 03:10 PM | #8 | |
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If I touched off a .357 in my town, ohhhh boy would I be in trouble... And I even live on the outskirts.
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February 28, 2006, 03:56 PM | #9 | |
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1) It's loud. Good intimidation factor if accosted by multiple assailants (after they hear the report of a .357 or .44 Magnum they might think about changing their plans) 2) It can penetrate more. Might be useful if you are engaging a target in a car (big advantage for police in situations like traffic stops and roadblocks). |
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February 28, 2006, 07:14 PM | #10 |
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Penetrate cars?
I thought this was about home defense. I am perfectly happy with the high tech +P loads versus a magnum in the home. That is a specific situation. If it was for hiking or for both 2 and 4 legged critters, I would go with a magnum perhaps. If it was for police to blast thru cars, I would recommend something besides a revolver. Don't try to cover all sits. with one gun or one type of ammo. Unless you are poor, then you can still select ammo for the sit. if one gun.
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February 28, 2006, 08:50 PM | #11 |
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I would have no problem squeezing off a few .41 mags out of my Redhawk - they were designed to be great "manstoppers". But "ideal" vs. a semi with .40 or .45? Naaa...
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February 28, 2006, 09:08 PM | #12 | |
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February 28, 2006, 09:12 PM | #13 |
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yep twycross i do live in a small town... about 1000 souls...... i've killed around 20 possums and a coon in the last few yrs with the blessing of the town cops... however the point i was trying to make when talking about the shot loads was that i do it to help curb overpenitration in a populated environment....... i found this out when i shot a possum on my back patio and it bouced off after hitting the possum and went through my car door (thank god)... i haven't shot a slug since in town.... i do see a difference in haveing an accidental penitration in a self defense situation though......
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February 28, 2006, 09:38 PM | #14 | ||
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Why? If you were justified to draw and fire your weapon, you wouldn't be in any more trouble than if you had used another caliber. Of course a 158gr. JSP is going to over-penetrate. That is what it was designed to do. Use an expanding bullet in 357Mag and you have got yourself one heck of home defense pistol. A 125gr. JHP won't penetrate any more than 12" so whats the problem? |
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February 28, 2006, 09:47 PM | #15 |
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I think the question about which to use would require some analysis about your housing situation. If you live in an apartment you may want to go with a round that hass a less chance of penetrating and going on to another aprtment. Same if you live in a neighborhood where the houses are close together. If you live in the country then that situation would be different.
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February 28, 2006, 09:48 PM | #16 |
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Think the noise issue is over played...know that I don't plan on shooting anyone in secret, so if I'm shooting, will want the whole neighborhood to know I'm in trouble and to either join in or phone the cops.
Penetration is mostly about bullet selection/construction...it's the missed rounds that seem to be the problem. |
February 28, 2006, 09:52 PM | #17 | |
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February 28, 2006, 09:59 PM | #18 | |
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February 28, 2006, 10:05 PM | #19 |
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thats why you need to do your homework.....
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February 28, 2006, 11:01 PM | #20 | |
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March 1, 2006, 03:50 PM | #21 |
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The notion that a handgun round will 'over penetrate' is largely a myth. The idea is, your handgun round with go through the bad guy then strike grandma down the street. Consider this: in police shootings (where we have good statistics), more than 80% of all rounds fired MISS the intended target altogether.
Now, why are we so much more concerned about a round that passes through the bad guy then down the street than we are about the rounds that completely miss the target and go down the street? Which one poses the greater threat to nearby people? Seriously, the solutions here are "train" and "don't miss". A loud round, even inside of a confined space, will not damage your ears when the body is subject to the physiological effects of fear or hormonal induced stress. Target practice inside the same room and you better wear the muffs. Randy |
March 1, 2006, 04:31 PM | #22 | |
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But I'm pretty sure that (for example) a .38 Special round fired at an apartment wall will probably penetrate the wall, regardless of whether it is a FMJ, SP, or JHP. If I'm wrong, please educate me. |
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March 1, 2006, 04:32 PM | #23 | |
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__________________
The test of character is not 'hanging in' when you expect light at the end of the tunnel, but performance of duty, and persistence of example when you know no light is coming. - Vice Admiral James Stockdale, USN (ret.) |
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March 1, 2006, 07:14 PM | #24 | |
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You are at the rifle range and forget to put on your hearing protection before firing a round from your high-power hunting rifle. Of course, you immediately realize what it was you forgot to do and your ears will 'ring' for some period of time to serve as a reminder. With me so far? Have you ever worn hearing protection while deer (or other big game) hunting? No? Do you normally hear the shot you fire at the deer or other animal? Yes, you should - it will be greatly subdued though. Now, the important part - does the report from that shot you took at an animal without wearing hearing protection make your ears 'ring' like it did when on the rifle range? No? Why is that? In other words, if it were just a psychological effect, your ears would still 'ring' after shooting the animal (killing) just as they did when shooting on the range without hearing protection, but they do not. The ears will 'shut down' almost completely, but only when you are delivering a 'death blow'. It is a fighting/survival response that happens regardless of what the 'death blow' might be - shooting, punching, etc... Man is not alone in this regard - a couple examples in nature are the lion and the hippo. Each are capable of producing a 'roar' around 115 decibels. If this 'gating' mechanism weren't present, they would suffer hearing loss as well. Randy |
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March 1, 2006, 08:09 PM | #25 | |
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