IPSC: Any 9x19mm factory load that reaches major-factor?

Para Bellum · April 10, 2005, 02:59 PM

Hi there,

I am new to ISPC and a 24/7 carrier so I shoot production-class. My friends competing in open-class tell me that (at least here in Austria) there is no factory load that allows them to shoot major-class with their 9x19mm open guns. So they handload each and every round. Hard to believe.

Do you know of any factory load 9x19mm cartige that reaches major factor shot from an open-gun?

scottys1 · April 10, 2005, 08:31 PM

If there is factory 9mm ammo that makes major, I sure don't know about it. I would think it would be over pressure for factory guns by a large amount.
Even .38 super must be loaded a little hot to make major power factor, so less case capacity with a 9x19 would mean it would need to be loaded proportionally hotter.
I agree with your friends that 9x19 must be handloaded to make major.
On the other hand, handloading each and every round is not hard to believe. One advantage of handloading is being able to load to suit a specific purpose such as making major with 9x19. Another is that ammo is cheaper which is a factor if you are shooting in large quantities.

J.D.B. · April 10, 2005, 09:45 PM

Don't forget the shok-buffer for the gun!

Josh

8ring · April 10, 2005, 10:13 PM

Hello:

I have heard the Winchester Ranger 127gr. 9mm +P+ ammunition will reach major power factor with certain guns. I have also heard that Rob Leatham, famous American IPSC shooter, uses it in his 9mm major open gun.

That said, I have never seen this ammunition anywhere. For me, 9mm is a happy minor power load in Production Class with my CZ 85.

Gluckwunch.

Chris

Handy · April 11, 2005, 12:37 AM

I had thought IPSC banned the use of 9x19 for major, which prompted a shortlived 9x21 kick, which was also banned.

Is this not true, or are international rules different?

Oh, I would think Hirtenberger subgun ammo would get you there. I don't know if your gun would be returning with you, though.

Zak Smith · April 11, 2005, 12:59 AM

9x19 is now legal for USPSA "Open" Major.

You'll find load data here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...howtopic=12740

eerw · April 11, 2005, 01:12 AM

The Winchester load I have heard makes major in some open guns..only one I have heard of...

lots of data on brianenos.com for the 9x19 major..

9x19 was not legal in USPSA if loaded short or with bullets lighter than 162..it was made legal for competition in the last year or so..9x21 was always good to go...
in IPSC 9x19 major was alway legal. but they have a bullet weight restriction that USPSA does not have..

Robert Allison · April 11, 2005, 09:02 AM

IIRC, back in the early 90s they banned major 9x19 loads. Guys were blowing their guns up. Then around '98 (I'm not sure on these dates, they're just estimates) they lowered the power factor by a couple of percentage points and I think that they then decided that it was okay, there was a little bit more of a margin of error.

The most popular "open" caliber has for years been the 38 Super which is nothing more than a semi-rimmed 9X23. I think the 9x21 and also the Winchester 9x23 were legal for major in "open" class. None of the nines have been legal in "limited" nor in the subsequent variations on the limited class. If you were shooting a semi-auto it had to be of a minimum of 40 caliber to be classified as major. You could use a 357 Mag. revolver and shoot major, but not any of the steroid nines, like those mentioned or the 357 Sig.

Joe D · April 15, 2005, 06:06 PM

I have "heard" that the Hertenberger 9mm makes major. I probably did not spell that correctly.

ryucasta · April 18, 2005, 01:28 PM

I make Major (USPSA 165 PF) using N350 with a Montana Gold 357 SIG bullet (125 Grain RSFP) in an Open Glock. As far as factory ammunition is concerned I know of none thats on the market.

April 10, 2005, 02:59 PM	#1
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	IPSC: Any 9x19mm factory load that reaches major-factor? Hi there, I am new to ISPC and a 24/7 carrier so I shoot production-class. My friends competing in open-class tell me that (at least here in Austria) there is no factory load that allows them to shoot major-class with their 9x19mm open guns. So they handload each and every round. Hard to believe. Do you know of any factory load 9x19mm cartige that reaches major factor shot from an open-gun? __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

April 10, 2005, 09:45 PM	#3
J.D.B. Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2005 Posts: 242	Don't forget the shok-buffer for the gun! Josh __________________ "It's not the arrow, it's the indian!"

April 10, 2005, 10:13 PM	#4
8ring Member Join Date: October 26, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 84	9mm Major power factor Hello: I have heard the Winchester Ranger 127gr. 9mm +P+ ammunition will reach major power factor with certain guns. I have also heard that Rob Leatham, famous American IPSC shooter, uses it in his 9mm major open gun. That said, I have never seen this ammunition anywhere. For me, 9mm is a happy minor power load in Production Class with my CZ 85. Gluckwunch. Chris

April 11, 2005, 12:59 AM	#6
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	9x19 is now legal for USPSA "Open" Major. You'll find load data here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/inde...howtopic=12740 __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

April 18, 2005, 01:28 PM	#10
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	I make Major (USPSA 165 PF) using N350 with a Montana Gold 357 SIG bullet (125 Grain RSFP) in an Open Glock. As far as factory ammunition is concerned I know of none thats on the market. __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

April 10, 2005, 08:31 PM	#2
scottys1 Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Posts: 316	If there is factory 9mm ammo that makes major, I sure don't know about it. I would think it would be over pressure for factory guns by a large amount. Even .38 super must be loaded a little hot to make major power factor, so less case capacity with a 9x19 would mean it would need to be loaded proportionally hotter. I agree with your friends that 9x19 must be handloaded to make major. On the other hand, handloading each and every round is not hard to believe. One advantage of handloading is being able to load to suit a specific purpose such as making major with 9x19. Another is that ammo is cheaper which is a factor if you are shooting in large quantities.

April 11, 2005, 12:37 AM	#5
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	I had thought IPSC banned the use of 9x19 for major, which prompted a shortlived 9x21 kick, which was also banned. Is this not true, or are international rules different? Oh, I would think Hirtenberger subgun ammo would get you there. I don't know if your gun would be returning with you, though.

April 11, 2005, 01:12 AM	#7
eerw Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2001 Posts: 395	The Winchester load I have heard makes major in some open guns..only one I have heard of... lots of data on brianenos.com for the 9x19 major.. 9x19 was not legal in USPSA if loaded short or with bullets lighter than 162..it was made legal for competition in the last year or so..9x21 was always good to go... in IPSC 9x19 major was alway legal. but they have a bullet weight restriction that USPSA does not have..

April 11, 2005, 09:02 AM	#8
Robert Allison Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: NW Montana Posts: 146	IIRC, back in the early 90s they banned major 9x19 loads. Guys were blowing their guns up. Then around '98 (I'm not sure on these dates, they're just estimates) they lowered the power factor by a couple of percentage points and I think that they then decided that it was okay, there was a little bit more of a margin of error. The most popular "open" caliber has for years been the 38 Super which is nothing more than a semi-rimmed 9X23. I think the 9x21 and also the Winchester 9x23 were legal for major in "open" class. None of the nines have been legal in "limited" nor in the subsequent variations on the limited class. If you were shooting a semi-auto it had to be of a minimum of 40 caliber to be classified as major. You could use a 357 Mag. revolver and shoot major, but not any of the steroid nines, like those mentioned or the 357 Sig.

April 15, 2005, 06:06 PM	#9
Joe D Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 1999 Location: Alabama Posts: 455	I have "heard" that the Hertenberger 9mm makes major. I probably did not spell that correctly.