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Old November 24, 2018, 01:53 AM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Originally Posted by Armed Chicagoan
I want to see the search history of politicians.
Now that you bring it up, I think their internet search habits would be far more useful in determining their fitness to rule legislate than their income tax returns.
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Old November 24, 2018, 08:18 AM   #27
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I've heard of cases where an applicant was denied due to "too many" speeding tickets, or even parking tickets. The rest of your life may be pure as the driven snow, but a judge can look at a "large" number of traffic tickets (as one example), and decide this pattern of behavior indicates you are an irresponsible scofflaw, and therefore NOT someone who should have a legally licensed pistol!
I have friends who maintain homes in three countries, one of which is England and the same thing worries them. Get caught speeding and there is a good chance you could lose your permit for owning guns. Some governments really need to be manhandled by their constituents.
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Old November 24, 2018, 10:40 AM   #28
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"Why is a permit or license, even a "shall issue" one, required at all for the exercise of a right that is supposedly guaranteed by the Constitution? "

That is a million dollar question!
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Old November 24, 2018, 11:29 AM   #29
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Because the Constitution and BOR, if violated do not drop the Ten Plagues of Egypt on the Country. Rhetorical questions as we have discussed that BOR statements are not absolute quite a few times.
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Old November 24, 2018, 11:48 AM   #30
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Here's your million dollar answer, for free...

because the Constitution doesn't say "ALL arms, everywhere, all the time, and we rilly, rilly , rilly mean it!!"


And the legal mindset that as long as you can do some part of it, somewhere, sometime, permit or not, then your rights are not being "infringed".

Most of us disagree with that, but various courts and states disagree with us.
No rights are unlimited. ALL have restrictions, and "compromises". Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose, etc.

Remember every law ever made was done with the "best of intentions". At least in the opinion of the people who made it law.

Real world results often vary...
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Old November 24, 2018, 01:10 PM   #31
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Politicians search history. Easy.. porn sites and hookers seen to be the stables for all of them.
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Old November 24, 2018, 01:25 PM   #32
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Passwords? I lost all my passwords in a boating accident......

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Old November 24, 2018, 03:04 PM   #33
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One of our esteemed senators wanted every bullet etched with a serial number so it could be traced. That was in the late 90’s he made that comment. I could tell right away he must have been an avid hunter and range shooter well versed in the art of firearms. Sadly these guys who are clueless keep making the laws with no understanding or consultation with people who do know . Do they go to a doctor for advice when sick or just make up a law restricting illness
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Old November 24, 2018, 03:12 PM   #34
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Section 124.56 new law no one in the state is allowed to catch the flu.
Flu problem is now solved
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Old November 24, 2018, 05:47 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
Because the Constitution and BOR, if violated do not drop the Ten Plagues of Egypt on the Country. Rhetorical questions as we have discussed that BOR statements are not absolute quite a few times.
Yes, and the answer always seems to be that the Supreme Court has "historically" ruled that other rights enshrined in the BOR are subject to regulation, so therefore the 2nd Amendment must also be subject to regulation. I get it.

And my response to that remains the same: By definition, regulation = infringement, and the 2nd Amendment says that the RKBA shall not be infringed. IMHO, anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty would recognize that the 2nd Amendment itself says that it is not subject to regulation. In the 2nd Amendment, that is an absolute statement, not a qualified statement. It doesn't say, "... shall not be unreasonably infringed."

I also recognize that my opinion is worth less than the collective opinions of a majority of the justices on the Supreme Court. That doesn't mean that I can't hold the opinion that the SCOTUS is wrong. After all, Hillary said they're wrong; my right to believe that is fully equal to hers, even if we don't agree on the direction in which they're wrong.
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Old November 25, 2018, 12:18 AM   #36
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My take from an experience I once had is that some politicians don't care what "we the people" think.

I once wrote a letter (this was before Al Gore invented the internet) to a career politician (a Democrat) stating that the bill in question is not inline with 2A. there were other opinions stated, but this was the main context of my letter.

In short, his answer simply stated "sometimes the people don't know what is best for them".

I wasted no more stamps or envelopes on the A-hole. He was going to do what HE wanted anyways regardless of the people.
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Old November 25, 2018, 01:07 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
Because the Constitution and BOR, if violated do not drop the Ten Plagues of Egypt on the Country. Rhetorical questions as we have discussed that BOR statements are not absolute quite a few times.
I get that nothing is absolute and our rights can be regulated, but the BoRs tells me my personal effects are protected from "unreasonable searches", and worth noting the presumption of innocence is widely accepted practice in case law.... I would think that requiring to give up my 4th Amendment right without probable cause, in order to exercise my 2nd Amendment right, unreasonable.
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Old November 25, 2018, 01:18 AM   #38
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No ID for voting, but a proctological exam to buy firearms. . . .
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Old November 25, 2018, 06:20 AM   #39
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Good luck looking for mine. First I have none; I view some forums like this one, a camper forum, a few truck forums and most of all internet usage is with a VPN and a TOR browser.
Also, I don't know my neighbors, they don't know me (closest one is about a half mile away) and I'll stop there.
But people have to start realizing that what you put on the internet stays just like this post.
But I sure don't like anywhere near the state of NY, although I did spend about seven months in Watkins Glen many years ago, on a paid rehabilitation.
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Old November 25, 2018, 07:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
My take from an experience I once had is that some politicians don't care what "we the people" think.

I once wrote a letter (this was before Al Gore invented the internet) to a career politician (a Democrat) stating that the bill in question is not inline with 2A. there were other opinions stated, but this was the main context of my letter.

In short, his answer simply stated "sometimes the people don't know what is best for them".

I wasted no more stamps or envelopes on the A-hole. He was going to do what HE wanted anyways regardless of the people.
"Tyranny of the majority"...
Quote:
Noun. (plural tyrannies of the majority or tyrannies of majorities) (politics) A situation in which a government or other authority democratically supported by a majority of its subjects makes policies or takes actions benefiting that majority, without regard for the rights or welfare of the rest of its subjects.
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Old November 25, 2018, 08:09 AM   #41
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Things like this is why I moved from NY to the free State of Tennessee
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Old November 25, 2018, 10:41 AM   #42
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NY residents must apply for this state license to purchase/possess/own a handgun.

Are they still required to go through a Federal NICS background check to purchase, or does this application include that as well?

I know some states the Permit to Carry, gives one the ability to bypass the NICS background check.
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Old November 25, 2018, 10:47 AM   #43
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The permit and social media background check process outlines in the proposed bill is not tied to the point of sale background checks. We would still have to pass the NICS checks for every purchase.
As mentioned above, The bill has language that has a huge potential for abuse.
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Old November 25, 2018, 12:06 PM   #44
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Things like this is why I moved from NY to the free State of Tennessee
I perfectly understand the sentiments of the many who declared that they had "moved to a free state". I also understand why others would often suggest moving or relocating.

However, that does not do any benefit for the collective good that we are trying to fight for. We can move to "free states". For the most part, it offers only a solution for the person who move. Unconstitutional acts are still being committed. And some states that were formerly "free" have already seen drastic changes to their laws and public beliefs. Are we to keep moving and relocating until we are forced into one of the last remaining air bubbles, and keep waiting for that bubble to grow smaller until it strangles us?

Taking legislative action the minute such problems arise is a far better tactic. Post the proposed bill for everybody to read and see. Dissect the wording and pull out anything which are constitutional violations or can be used as such. Gather all of these together and challenge it on the state or federal level. If there are enough voices and emails getting through to the supreme court, the issue becomes elevated to that of public demand for action, and they have to give it an audience. That is how the Heller case progressed. And the people behind the #hashtag movements do the same thing to get heard and get people to pay attention.

We could also do the same: "Hey, you folks took an oath to protect and uphold the Constitution when you were elected/sworn in, right? Well, on this bill, this, and this, and this are blatant violations of the Constitution...Does that mean that the protections guaranteed by the Constitution only pertains to SOME parts of the pupulation?" Hmmmm.

The magic behind getting a lot of bills to be passed and approved is that people don't like to read. In general. And even more people do not like to read fine print. And when that happens, it is easy to get bills passed. When a lot of people start paying attention to a particular bill and discussions start popping up regarding that bill, resulting in a lot of communication being sent to the judicial parts of the government, it does a lot of good.

We don't have to stand in the streets and wave banners and signs to get noticed. That is one of the tactics used by a lot of the younger folks who think they are "politically active". That kind of thing is exhausting to one's health and body. The same results can be achieved by a lot of people using their mouse and keyboards.
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Old November 25, 2018, 01:24 PM   #45
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Federal nics, fingerprinted full background checks we have it all. Approval by a judge, local police chief, and sheriff all have to say ok. The application process is extensive and expensive. So what does the bill provide other than harassing those of us that already passed all of the checks
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Old November 25, 2018, 01:41 PM   #46
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The same results can be achieved by a lot of people using their mouse and keyboards.
You'll need a LOT of emails. There is an open secret known by savvy politicians, Newspaper editors, and other people who deal with public opinions, and that is that e-mails are not as effective as people think.

Phone calls are a bit more effective, but the impact is more transitory. Once the phone stops "ringing off the hook", the effect diminishes.

Back in ancient times, when people actually wrote and mailed letters the politician, editors, etc., paid attention to them, and the volume of them, because they realized that for each person who took the time and effort to write and mail each letter, there were dozens to hundreds of people who felt the same way, (and would vote) but didn't make the effort to send a letter.

Handwritten letters were given more weight than form letters, as well. Same idea. Plus, there is the physical volume of letters. They take up space. And, they need to be stored, or disposed of, both of which require work and cost by the staff. This makes an impression that emails cannot.

Remember the key thing that decided the case of Santa Claus in Miracle on 34th Street? It wasn't the lawyer saying there were hundreds or thousands of letters, it was the physical paper burying the judge (who had demanded they be put on his desk..).

A million emails means you got a lot of people to make a couple mouseclicks. AND they all fit on your phone. The number is impressive, as a number, but its only a number, not a huge, unavoidable, constant physical presence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying emails aren't effective, what I'm saying is that those things that take more effort than clicking a mouse have a greater impact on those we wish to reach. A dozen people willing to stand in the cold and rain, waving banners means people committed to enduring hardship to get their message across. They may only be the tip of the iceberg, but they are proof the iceberg is there, and should not be ignored.
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Old November 25, 2018, 03:01 PM   #47
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And so it begins...

Fourth Amendment US Constitution:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I wonder if this new law impacts on the politicians who voted for it.
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Old November 26, 2018, 01:54 AM   #48
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You'll need a LOT of emails. There is an open secret known by savvy politicians, Newspaper editors, and other people who deal with public opinions, and that is that e-mails are not as effective as people think.

Phone calls are a bit more effective, but the impact is more transitory. Once the phone stops "ringing off the hook", the effect diminishes.

Back in ancient times, when people actually wrote and mailed letters the politician, editors, etc., paid attention to them, and the volume of them, because they realized that for each person who took the time and effort to write and mail each letter, there were dozens to hundreds of people who felt the same way, (and would vote) but didn't make the effort to send a letter.

Handwritten letters were given more weight than form letters, as well. Same idea. Plus, there is the physical volume of letters. They take up space. And, they need to be stored, or disposed of, both of which require work and cost by the staff. This makes an impression that emails cannot.

Remember the key thing that decided the case of Santa Claus in Miracle on 34th Street? It wasn't the lawyer saying there were hundreds or thousands of letters, it was the physical paper burying the judge (who had demanded they be put on his desk..).

A million emails means you got a lot of people to make a couple mouseclicks. AND they all fit on your phone. The number is impressive, as a number, but its only a number, not a huge, unavoidable, constant physical presence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying emails aren't effective, what I'm saying is that those things that take more effort than clicking a mouse have a greater impact on those we wish to reach. A dozen people willing to stand in the cold and rain, waving banners means people committed to enduring hardship to get their message across. They may only be the tip of the iceberg, but they are proof the iceberg is there, and should not be ignored.

That sounds even better

Before the Text Messaging age me and all the friends I knew wrote snail-mail letters. And the art is never lost. I can see how a massed and organized reaction in this manner to a particularly offensive bill can generate results.

It takes around half an hour to draft and write up a very eloquent and well-explained letter. A couple of minutes to seal, address and stamp the letter. Now all folks got to do is pass by the post office and drop it off. Or at one of the local neighborhood boxes if these are more convenient.

I can see some issues may be present for some folks with mobility issues or due to inclement weather, but if we can get a good amount of snail-mail response to those outlandish and ludicrous bills, then we will be achieving something. We have a Firemission section on this forum already, the L&CR is perfect for exposing those more nasty pieces of script that some extremist antis would try to stealthily sneak past their voters' noses.
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Old November 26, 2018, 11:44 AM   #49
Glenn E. Meyer
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The most important influence nowadays is the money campaign. Be a big donor and you have influence.

Letters are read by interns and classified as pro or con an issue. The odds the legislator reads your brilliant prose are very, very low.
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Old November 26, 2018, 02:17 PM   #50
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My daughter worked on capital hill for a senator for a short time.You are lucky if they even read the bill in front of them before voting. No way they will read any letters or email. Only if you donated a million to their campaign maybe
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