7.62x63 -> 7.92x57

OnionSpider13 · February 12, 2015, 04:43 PM

Greetings all, this is my first post on this forum.

I’m considering upgrading my 700 SPS sporter barrel (.30-06) to something nicer than what came out of the factory. Near term, I will be using this rifle for hunting medium/large game in the WY/UT area (200-250 yards, maybe up to 400 when I’m capable). It is also my go-to bench gun. I’m not really too concerned about the weight of the rifle, so I’m pretty open to whatever barrel contour is available (initial thought is sporter or magnum).

Here’s where the question becomes a bit trickier. I’m currently in an ammunition commonality phase, and the only other full-power rifle I own is a 1941 K98k. Modifications to this piece of history are NOT an option. Therefore, the only way to get a common cartridge would be to rechamber the Remington from .30-06 to 7.92x57 Mauser, which wouldn’t seem too out-of-the-way since I already want to rebarrel it.

Let’s ride past the fact that .30-06 is more common and has a wider availability, and focus only on what modifications need to be done to the rifle itself. A gunsmith should be able to correctly install a custom barrel (Shilen, ER Shaw, Krieger) right? The only other mod I can think of would be a new bolt, or at least a new bolt head. The long action receiver and magazine should already be compatible with 8x57, yes?

Current rifle:
Remington 700 SPS (neither Varmint nor Tactical) in .30-06 Springfield
Timney 510 trigger (upgraded from X-Mark Pro following recall)
EGW 0 MOA Picatinny base
Burris XTR Low 1” scope rings (upgraded from a Weaver mount and rings)
Vortex Viper 4-12x40 PA BDC scope (upgraded from Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 that is literally falling apart)
Harris-ish bipod knockoff
TacOps Black Cheek Pad

Planned upgrades:
Custom barrel in 8mm Mauser
Custom bolt for .470” rim diameter (.30-06 is .473”)
B&C Medalist stock (Classic, Alaskan II, or M40 depending on chosen barrel contour)
bonafide Harris bipod

oldscot3 · February 12, 2015, 08:13 PM

Sure. They're close enough, and I think the rim diameters are the same, nevertheless .003" is slight. Most brass probably varies more than that.

OnionSpider13 · February 12, 2015, 10:13 PM

Thanks, that is encouraging! So I just need to "drop in" a new barrel and I should be good to go? I'm leaning toward ER Shaw at the moment. I doubt I'll ever be good enough to shoot competitively, so no need to buy a match grade barrel for a hunting rifle. Shaw says the minimum contour for 8mm Mauser is "Rem #2 Heavy Sporter." Any advice on contours? That one will come in 26".

As far as stocks are concerned, that rules out the B&C Classic. Alaskan II accepts standard and magnum sporter, will heavy sporter be too large for the barrel channel? I kinda prefer the M40 stock anyway.

Jim Watson · February 12, 2015, 10:19 PM

Are you a proficient handloader?

Scorch · February 12, 2015, 10:31 PM

No problem with rebarreling to 8x57, just screw on a new barrel. ER Shaw is OK, but just OK, I would recommend going with a Shilen or Douglas before an ER Shaw. As far as barrel contour goes, Remington sporter or magnum sporter contour is pretty nice.

8x57 can do anything a 30-06 can do, and has proven it over and over, just not with the anemic US factory loads. You will have to step up to European standard loads like Norma, S&B, Prvi Partizan or the like. Or reload.

The B&C Medalist stock is pretty good. Just don't try to get away with the B&C Carbelite to save a few bucks.

Have fun!

FairWarning · February 12, 2015, 10:50 PM

Kudos to you for doing something different.

I love 8mm Mauser. Indeed it's basically a German '06 if loaded well. Mike sure to keep the K98 original---it's a piece of history.

I've got some vintage Norma loads consisting of 165 gr Vulcan hollow points at 2855 fps. An Excalibur load if you will, although it hasn't been made in decades to my knowledge. They are so rare now as to essentially be collector's items, although there are still some excellent loads being produced in Europe and by Hornady and Nosler in the US. Oh well, I need to eventually get around to starting reloading anyway!

Mosin-Marauder · February 12, 2015, 10:54 PM

Having an 8mm Mauser long range gun would be awesome.

Even more so a 7.62x54R

OnionSpider13 · February 12, 2015, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Are you a proficient handloader?

Someday I will be. Currently living in an apartment and I don't have the space for reloading equipment.

Quote:

Just don't try to get away with the B&C Carbelite to save a few bucks.

I read another forum post comparing the Carbelite to Medalist. I'll definitely be going with the latter, just not sure which style.

Quote:

Kudos to you for doing something different. I love 8mm Mauser. Indeed it's basically a German '06 if loaded well. Mike sure to keep the K98 original---it's a piece of history.

Thanks, I hope it works out well! I DEFINITELY won't be touching the K98. If you're interested, you can check out my post on Surplus Rifle Forum, it has some good pictures:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...?f=21&t=137423

Since I took those pictures I have up-righted the sling swivel barrel band, and I added a repro sling, sight hood, and 12.5" cleaning rod.

Quote:

Having an 8mm Mauser long range gun would be awesome.

That's the goal

OnionSpider13 · February 12, 2015, 11:56 PM

Quote:

An Excalibur load if you will, although it hasn't been made in decades to my knowledge.

I'm unfamiliar with this, can you explain what an Excalibur load is?

Mosin-Marauder · February 13, 2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

I'm unfamiliar with this, can you explain what an Excalibur load is?

The prophecy foretold of a bullet crimped so tightly that only the strongest of impact-bullet-pullers could remove it. And he would be crowned king of the impact-bullet-pullers.

Just Kidding

doofus47 · February 13, 2015, 11:48 AM

I was in your shoes once: holdling a 30-06 in one hand and an 8mm Spanish Mauser in the other. In the end, I opted for the 30-06 and sold the Mauser. The overlap of the two cartridges definitely screams redundancy. I didn't need to rebarrel my 30-06 or I might have gone your direction. If you like the way the Remi holds, definitely drop in a new barrel and keep the 8mm cartridge and make yourself twice as happy. I love happy endings.
As stated earlier, the bolt and magazine size should be good to go and your gun smith should be able to do the work in his or her sleep.

Happy shooting.

OnionSpider13 · February 14, 2015, 01:13 AM

Quote:

crowned king of the impact-bullet-pullers

Lol.

So now the question comes down to picking a barrel and material. I'm thinking chrome moly, done up in matte blue to match the receiver.

-ER Shaw is saying they can sell me a threaded, "short" chambered and crowned barrel for $195.
-Krieger is telling me they don't thread or chamber the barrel I want but will sell an 8mm blank for $365.
-Shilen is selling a pre-threaded and chambered barrel in either short or deep chamber for $400.
-McGowen's price is $310, and it almost sounds like it would be a drop-in barrel with no extra smithing.

Any more advice on contours? I'm thinking magnum sporter at the moment.

hartcreek · February 14, 2015, 01:37 AM

I would not do it. If your 30-06 barrel is shot then replace it and stay with 30-06. Going from 30-06 to 8mm mauser is a downgrade in power. The case heads are the same. I just turned some 30-06 brass into 8mm Mauser loads a bit more then a week ago.

ligonierbill · February 14, 2015, 05:40 AM

You know, Remington made their "classic" series in 8x57 one year. Nice guns, and they are not uncommon on online auctions. I load and like the old 8 mm.

Mobuck · February 14, 2015, 07:09 AM

Keep in mind that "optimum/full power" loads for the Rem 700 are going to be at the upper level of safety for the 70+ year old Mauser. At that point, have you gained anything over just having a 30/06 and an 8x57?

tahoe2 · February 14, 2015, 02:33 PM

Is a wise choice, it is a very respectable cartridge and fully capable from Coyote to Grizzly ! Now I know, that's a tall statement, and those who believe that the 8mm won't kill anything the Great old "06" will, fully under estimate what it can do in a modern rifle in the hands of a capable marksman. My loads are around the 50,000-55,000 CUP level (published) and by all accounts are safe in my rifles (4 of them). I currently load 175 Sierra Pro Hunter's @ 2800 fps, 180 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips @ 2750 fps and Speer 200 grn Hot Cores @ 2650 fps, I find them more than adequate for deer, elk, and black bear; for moose or grizzly I would opt for the 200 Partition's or 220 Woodleigh's. Yes the 8mm is an excellent choice.

Jimro · February 14, 2015, 04:51 PM

The 30-06 and 8x57 are both great hunting cartridges.

For where you are hunting, and considering that you are going for accuracy, I'd recommend a 308 Win. Premium barrels are readily available, premium components are readily available, and if you can't kill it with a 308, then an 8x57 or 30-06 isn't going to magically make things better.

That being said, all my target rifles are in 308 or 223. I can shoot them more for less than any other centerfire.

If you just want something a little different, well there are definitely worse choices than the 8x57. The 8x57 is a great cartridge, and I won't give up mine. I handload for them and along with the 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 are my metric calibers of choice.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Jimro

OnionSpider13 · February 18, 2015, 06:45 PM

Preface to this post: I don't consider myself an expert at any of these subjects, and nothing below is intended to offend the people I'm responding to.

Quote:

Going from 30-06 to 8mm mauser is a downgrade in power.

I disagree, provided that you use European or handloaded ammo.

Quote:

Remington made their "classic" series in 8x57 one year.

Someone else suggested that I sell the .30-06 and buy one of these. I concede that it would be cheaper than my proposed upgrades, but I also submit that it will not be the same quality. If I upgrade my current 700, I'll be getting a nice barrel (looking at Douglas now) as opposed to another factory barrel, and an aluminum-bedded fiberglass stock. I have read that fiberglass is better than hardwood since it won't be affected by the weather like wood is.

Quote:

have you gained anything over just having a 30/06 and an 8x57?

1. Ammunition commonality, especially when I start reloading. I can use the same brass/bullets/primers, just different powder, right?
2. A much better barrel. If I'm buying a custom barrel anyway, why not get it in 8mm?

Blindstitch · February 18, 2015, 07:33 PM

Go for it.

OnionSpider13 · February 19, 2015, 01:12 PM

More questions!!!

1. I'm looking at Douglas Barrels, more specifically the Remington contour 003 and 005. These have the same barrel length, same diameter at the action, and same diameter at the muzzle, but the 005 looks a bit heavier in between these two points. Any recommendations on which of these contours to go with? Should I even look at a varmint barrel maybe?

2. Stock: I spoke with the good people at Stocky's, and they told me that a barrel with a muzzle diameter of .65" I should go with the Alaskan stock. If I got a barrel with a muzzle diameter of .83" I should get the M40. However, the Alaskan comes with the pressure pads similar to my current factory stock. Should I go with the M40 and just have a bit of wiggle room, or should I get the Alaskan and see how it shoots, with perhaps sanding the nubs off later?

FairWarning · February 20, 2015, 08:03 PM

Quote:

I'm unfamiliar with this, can you explain what an Excalibur load is?

Yes, 'tis a load so mighty, Elk fall dead merely from hearing rumors that you are carrying it.

Quote:

You know, Remington made their "classic" series in 8x57 one year. Nice guns, and they are not uncommon on online auctions. I load and like the old 8 mm.

Yes, and I have one. She is quite the beauty with her traditional walnut stock (imagine that!). The previous owner was a more advanced long range shooter than I and reported 1" groups at 300 yds using hand loads with Nosler Competition bullets. Quite impressive.

The best 3 modern commercial loads I know of are:

1. Hornady Custom 195 gr SP Interlock- I call this the Hammer of Thor because it still has about 1,800 ft-lbs of energy at 300 yds, which is much better than the lighter bullets for this caliber. And the drop is not much worse at that distance, either.

2. Nosler 200 gr Accubond - just bought these, haven't tried them yet, but they are similar to the Hammer of Thor.

I have seen a similar Barnes TSX load, but it is no longer made.

3. Nosler 180 gr Ballistic Tip - very deadly round, although the drop at 300 yds is only 1 inch less than the Hammer of Thor, and it has only 1,575 ft-lbs of energy to show for it.

hartcreek · February 20, 2015, 08:22 PM

OnionSpider13 You are not a reloader so how would you know that it is not a down grade? Either caliber is fine for hunting in every state except Alaska. If you had posted yesterday I could have posted photos of reformed 30-06 cases so everyone could clearly see how much case volume is lost.

It is just basic physics....same weight and BC bullet with less propellant equals a less powerful cartridge.

James K · February 20, 2015, 08:52 PM

The only drawback to the 8x57JS is the lack of variety in bullets, both in factory loads and for reloading. It would not be a downgrade at all from the .30-'06 if using European ammo or reloading, in fact the standard German 7.9 ammunition is more powerful than the .30-'06. U.S. commercial ammunition is loaded down to guard against the possibility of its use in old military or sporting rifles chambered for the 8x57J.

Jim

hartcreek · February 20, 2015, 11:42 PM

From Speer #11 which specifically states that these loads should not be used in 1888 Mausers.

8mm Mauser

150 grain spitzer BC .369

IMR 4350 51-55 grains
FPS 2458-2660

30-06

150 grain spitzer BC 3.89

IMR 4350 55-59 grains
FPS 2751-2955

It is still a step down.

OnionSpider13 · February 21, 2015, 01:10 AM

Quote:

OnionSpider13 You are not a reloader so how would you know that it is not a down grade?

I don't understand the logic behind your question. I'm not a jet engine designer but I can still look up the specifications for a Pratt and Whitney F100 turbofan.

Quote:

From Speer #11 which specifically states that these loads should not be used in 1888 Mausers.

Interesting, but why do I care what ammo you can or can't use in an 1888 Mauser?

February 12, 2015, 10:31 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	No problem with rebarreling to 8x57, just screw on a new barrel. ER Shaw is OK, but just OK, I would recommend going with a Shilen or Douglas before an ER Shaw. As far as barrel contour goes, Remington sporter or magnum sporter contour is pretty nice. 8x57 can do anything a 30-06 can do, and has proven it over and over, just not with the anemic US factory loads. You will have to step up to European standard loads like Norma, S&B, Prvi Partizan or the like. Or reload. The B&C Medalist stock is pretty good. Just don't try to get away with the B&C Carbelite to save a few bucks. Have fun! __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 12, 2015, 10:50 PM	#6
FairWarning Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: GA Posts: 1,149	Kudos to you for doing something different. I love 8mm Mauser. Indeed it's basically a German '06 if loaded well. Mike sure to keep the K98 original---it's a piece of history. I've got some vintage Norma loads consisting of 165 gr Vulcan hollow points at 2855 fps. An Excalibur load if you will, although it hasn't been made in decades to my knowledge. They are so rare now as to essentially be collector's items, although there are still some excellent loads being produced in Europe and by Hornady and Nosler in the US. Oh well, I need to eventually get around to starting reloading anyway! __________________ Mauser Werke, Schmidt-Rubin, Colt, Walther, HK, Weatherby, Sig Sauer, Browning, Ruger, Beretta, etc, etc....a few friends of mine

February 12, 2015, 10:54 PM	#7
Mosin-Marauder Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,320	Having an 8mm Mauser long range gun would be awesome. Even more so a 7.62x54R __________________ Proud owner of three (four-ish) pieces of history! K-31, Mosin-Nagant M91/30, M24/47 Mauser, Norinco SKS. "You might as well appeal against a thunderstorm..." William Tecumseh Sherman

February 14, 2015, 02:33 PM	#16
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	7.92x57 Mauser Is a wise choice, it is a very respectable cartridge and fully capable from Coyote to Grizzly ! Now I know, that's a tall statement, and those who believe that the 8mm won't kill anything the Great old "06" will, fully under estimate what it can do in a modern rifle in the hands of a capable marksman. My loads are around the 50,000-55,000 CUP level (published) and by all accounts are safe in my rifles (4 of them). I currently load 175 Sierra Pro Hunter's @ 2800 fps, 180 grn Nosler Ballistic Tips @ 2750 fps and Speer 200 grn Hot Cores @ 2650 fps, I find them more than adequate for deer, elk, and black bear; for moose or grizzly I would opt for the 200 Partition's or 220 Woodleigh's. Yes the 8mm is an excellent choice.

February 14, 2015, 04:51 PM	#17
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	The 30-06 and 8x57 are both great hunting cartridges. For where you are hunting, and considering that you are going for accuracy, I'd recommend a 308 Win. Premium barrels are readily available, premium components are readily available, and if you can't kill it with a 308, then an 8x57 or 30-06 isn't going to magically make things better. That being said, all my target rifles are in 308 or 223. I can shoot them more for less than any other centerfire. If you just want something a little different, well there are definitely worse choices than the 8x57. The 8x57 is a great cartridge, and I won't give up mine. I handload for them and along with the 6.5x55 and 9.3x62 are my metric calibers of choice. Good luck with whatever you choose. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

February 12, 2015, 04:43 PM	#1
OnionSpider13 Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2015 Posts: 12	7.62x63 -> 7.92x57 Greetings all, this is my first post on this forum. I’m considering upgrading my 700 SPS sporter barrel (.30-06) to something nicer than what came out of the factory. Near term, I will be using this rifle for hunting medium/large game in the WY/UT area (200-250 yards, maybe up to 400 when I’m capable). It is also my go-to bench gun. I’m not really too concerned about the weight of the rifle, so I’m pretty open to whatever barrel contour is available (initial thought is sporter or magnum). Here’s where the question becomes a bit trickier. I’m currently in an ammunition commonality phase, and the only other full-power rifle I own is a 1941 K98k. Modifications to this piece of history are NOT an option. Therefore, the only way to get a common cartridge would be to rechamber the Remington from .30-06 to 7.92x57 Mauser, which wouldn’t seem too out-of-the-way since I already want to rebarrel it. Let’s ride past the fact that .30-06 is more common and has a wider availability, and focus only on what modifications need to be done to the rifle itself. A gunsmith should be able to correctly install a custom barrel (Shilen, ER Shaw, Krieger) right? The only other mod I can think of would be a new bolt, or at least a new bolt head. The long action receiver and magazine should already be compatible with 8x57, yes? Current rifle: Remington 700 SPS (neither Varmint nor Tactical) in .30-06 Springfield Timney 510 trigger (upgraded from X-Mark Pro following recall) EGW 0 MOA Picatinny base Burris XTR Low 1” scope rings (upgraded from a Weaver mount and rings) Vortex Viper 4-12x40 PA BDC scope (upgraded from Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 that is literally falling apart) Harris-ish bipod knockoff TacOps Black Cheek Pad Planned upgrades: Custom barrel in 8mm Mauser Custom bolt for .470” rim diameter (.30-06 is .473”) B&C Medalist stock (Classic, Alaskan II, or M40 depending on chosen barrel contour) bonafide Harris bipod

February 12, 2015, 08:13 PM	#2
oldscot3 Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2007 Location: texas Posts: 997	Sure. They're close enough, and I think the rim diameters are the same, nevertheless .003" is slight. Most brass probably varies more than that. Last edited by oldscot3; February 12, 2015 at 09:49 PM.

February 12, 2015, 10:13 PM	#3
OnionSpider13 Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2015 Posts: 12	Thanks, that is encouraging! So I just need to "drop in" a new barrel and I should be good to go? I'm leaning toward ER Shaw at the moment. I doubt I'll ever be good enough to shoot competitively, so no need to buy a match grade barrel for a hunting rifle. Shaw says the minimum contour for 8mm Mauser is "Rem #2 Heavy Sporter." Any advice on contours? That one will come in 26". As far as stocks are concerned, that rules out the B&C Classic. Alaskan II accepts standard and magnum sporter, will heavy sporter be too large for the barrel channel? I kinda prefer the M40 stock anyway.

February 12, 2015, 10:19 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Are you a proficient handloader?

February 13, 2015, 11:48 AM	#11
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	I was in your shoes once: holdling a 30-06 in one hand and an 8mm Spanish Mauser in the other. In the end, I opted for the 30-06 and sold the Mauser. The overlap of the two cartridges definitely screams redundancy. I didn't need to rebarrel my 30-06 or I might have gone your direction. If you like the way the Remi holds, definitely drop in a new barrel and keep the 8mm cartridge and make yourself twice as happy. I love happy endings. As stated earlier, the bolt and magazine size should be good to go and your gun smith should be able to do the work in his or her sleep. Happy shooting. __________________ I'm right about the metric system 3/4 of the time.

February 14, 2015, 01:37 AM	#13
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	I would not do it. If your 30-06 barrel is shot then replace it and stay with 30-06. Going from 30-06 to 8mm mauser is a downgrade in power. The case heads are the same. I just turned some 30-06 brass into 8mm Mauser loads a bit more then a week ago.

February 14, 2015, 05:40 AM	#14
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,458	You know, Remington made their "classic" series in 8x57 one year. Nice guns, and they are not uncommon on online auctions. I load and like the old 8 mm.

February 14, 2015, 07:09 AM	#15
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	Keep in mind that "optimum/full power" loads for the Rem 700 are going to be at the upper level of safety for the 70+ year old Mauser. At that point, have you gained anything over just having a 30/06 and an 8x57?

February 18, 2015, 07:33 PM	#19
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,693	Go for it.

February 19, 2015, 01:12 PM	#20
OnionSpider13 Junior Member Join Date: February 12, 2015 Posts: 12	More questions!!! 1. I'm looking at Douglas Barrels, more specifically the Remington contour 003 and 005. These have the same barrel length, same diameter at the action, and same diameter at the muzzle, but the 005 looks a bit heavier in between these two points. Any recommendations on which of these contours to go with? Should I even look at a varmint barrel maybe? 2. Stock: I spoke with the good people at Stocky's, and they told me that a barrel with a muzzle diameter of .65" I should go with the Alaskan stock. If I got a barrel with a muzzle diameter of .83" I should get the M40. However, the Alaskan comes with the pressure pads similar to my current factory stock. Should I go with the M40 and just have a bit of wiggle room, or should I get the Alaskan and see how it shoots, with perhaps sanding the nubs off later?

February 20, 2015, 08:22 PM	#22
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	OnionSpider13 You are not a reloader so how would you know that it is not a down grade? Either caliber is fine for hunting in every state except Alaska. If you had posted yesterday I could have posted photos of reformed 30-06 cases so everyone could clearly see how much case volume is lost. It is just basic physics....same weight and BC bullet with less propellant equals a less powerful cartridge.

February 20, 2015, 08:52 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The only drawback to the 8x57JS is the lack of variety in bullets, both in factory loads and for reloading. It would not be a downgrade at all from the .30-'06 if using European ammo or reloading, in fact the standard German 7.9 ammunition is more powerful than the .30-'06. U.S. commercial ammunition is loaded down to guard against the possibility of its use in old military or sporting rifles chambered for the 8x57J. Jim

February 20, 2015, 11:42 PM	#24
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	From Speer #11 which specifically states that these loads should not be used in 1888 Mausers. 8mm Mauser 150 grain spitzer BC .369 IMR 4350 51-55 grains FPS 2458-2660 30-06 150 grain spitzer BC 3.89 IMR 4350 55-59 grains FPS 2751-2955 It is still a step down.