Nickel brass

[Deltadart]

I intend to reform some nickel plated brass into a smaller caliber. Does anyone know if this has some special issues, which would be different from the normal reform / resizing operations?

[44 AMP]

Only that the nickel plating may crack (possibly not enough to be seen) resulting in some of the nickel flaking off at some point in the future.

Nickel is hard, and slick, compared to the brass it is applied to, and squeezing it (or expanding it) TOO much isn't good for it.

How much is too much?? No one knows, every different batch of nickeled brass has the potential to have different limits.

[FrankenMauser]

Nickel-plated brass doesn't like being sized much.
It is best to avoid nickel when forming cases.

What is it that you're trying to do?
From what to what?

[Deltadart]

Franken
I am trying to reform .32-20 WCF to .25-20 WCF. I had a bad feeling about it, compressing the necks that much. I have loaded a lot of.357 Mag and .38 SPl that are nickel without many problems, but obviously there is not any great changes to those cases compared to going from .32 to .25 on this project.

[FrankenMauser]

I know how hard it is to get your hands on *any* .32-20 brass, and that the latest Starline batches were plated. So I understand that pain.

It is certainly worth a shot. I would expect some losses, and possibly a lot of flaking of the plating. (Depending on how well it was plated. Quality varies.)
But .32 to .25 is definitely in the failure range.

[Deltadart]

.25-20 brass is the most difficult to obtain. I have resized both .32-20 and .218 Bee with good results. Even tried the 7.62x38 Nagant brass, not so much. Plus the rim difference is about .012 in thickness from .25-20 to 7.62 that is a problem. I have seen and tried the tiny Oring trick, also not so good on the results. After pushing the Nagant thru a forming die much of it will fold inward and form a crease, end of that brass. I have had some "success"; however, I do not care for the process and do not recommend it. Push the brass thru the .25 resize die, slowly. Trim the very long neck down, resize again and it is close, however there is a ring near the cartridge base just head of the rim. The ring is very small, perhaps .001 in height but enough to prevent chambering. Using a jeweler's file and lightly touching the ring I can get it in the chamber, but filing on a cartridge in that area is not a good idea.
As to the nickel .32-20 I will pick up a box of 50 and see what happens. Depending on case mortality rate I will determine if it is a good or bad idea.

[Paul B.]

The only nickel plated brass I've worked with has been Winchester fir my .280 Rem. The "plating" on those cases is mighty thin and loos more like a wash. I use it to keep from mixing it with .270 Win. cases when tumbling. I call the fish a "wash" because after a few runs through the tumbler the brass of the case starts showing through the nickel finish. Also, on new unfired it has a much duller finish. I don't know what brand of brass you're using but if it's Winchester, I might be that thin coating.
Paul B.

[Deltadart]

I would be using Starline cases. The only issue is I would need to order 200 for the minimum buy. That is quite a few cases to have laying around if not successful. I think the nickel will probably not last as long as standard brass cases. Plus there would be a terrible temptation to buy another 1892 Winchester in .32-20 since I have so much brass. That would be on the expensive side. But what the hell its only money. The other issue is I live in Washington State, the legislature is inventing ways to make gun ownership as miserable as possible, like taking a class before you can transferer a firearm. They should concern themselves with Seattle.

[Marco Califo]

"Starline does not inventory nickel plated brass. Nickel plated brass is sold in Dealer quantities only. Contact Starline for special Dealer Pricing.
Note: Nickel plated orders may only be placed by phone. To order, call 1-800-280-6660.
Starline nickel plated cases may also be purchased in smaller quantities from:
Midway USA Inc. : 1-800-243-3220
Graf & Sons : 1-800-444-9360"
Nickel plated brass resists corrosion caused by handling brass with fingers (loading and unloading firearms and magazines), and contact with leather like ammo loops. This makes it popular for LEOs and Game Wardens who load and unload daily.
#1 Buying nickle plated brass is generally only possible for only very common cartridges.
#2 If you do not specifically require nickle plating, forget It
Use yellow brass. Forming nickle plated cases is not a good idea and will stress damage your plating.

[Deltadart]

I was looking at purchasing the nickel plated .32-20 from Grafs & Sons. The only reason I considered it was that was all they had in stock at the time, as the standard brass goes about as quickly as it comes in. No one else seemed to have any .32-20, 25-20, or .218 in stock. I was very skeptical of buying it sense I would need to anneal it prior to sizing and after a firing or two. Buying 200 cases just seemed like a bit too many for a trial run, even though the folks at Starline though it would be OK as far as just resizing it, but life of the case may be degraded some. I do have a fair amount of cartridges at the moment but who knows what will happen this year.

[WestDivide]

..Win 308 and 7-08 nickel once fired cases down to 260 for my 260 AI. I used a standard 260 Rem die in one pass. Using the 260 AI FL die results in collapsed cases. I've just done one box of 50.

Some, maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the 308 cases developed a "checkered" appearance on the neck proper. A couple looked like they might be flaking, but so little, it's hard to tell. The checkered phenomenon showed up after firing. But, 308 down to 264 is quite a lot of reduction.

The shoulder and upper body seemed to withstand the body and shoulder expansion blowout OK. The 7-08 case necks look OK so far after one firing. But, they've only been sized half as far as the 308 cases.

I worry a little about the nickel damaging my 260 AI neck die, but after one resizing, I don't see any evidence of die damage on subsequent brass cases going through the die.

I"m not familiar with the 32-20 and 25-20 cartridges. Is it indeed only a ,007 diameter reduction? If so, the change might not be big enough to cause any problem. YMMV....

West out

[Unclenick]

No. 32-20 guns have a nominal 0.311" groove bore, and 25-20s have a nominal 0.256" groove bore, so the difference is 0.055".

[Lurch37]

I'm currently scrounging for similar 25-20 components and reading all I can on reloading it, as well as reforming 32-20 brass to 25-20. Both sizes of brass are extremely difficult to find and loaded cartridges in 25-20, when available are very expensive.

I was quite thrilled when I ran across some factory Remington 25-20 in stock, but less than overjoyed when I saw the price.

https://www.remington.com/rifle/core-lokt/29-28364.html

I will add that when in stock at Midway, the same load is $124 per 50.

It's hard for me to spend 3 dollars a round but it would provide some brass to use without the need to reform a different size case. It's tough to decide and I might just have to wait for 25-20 brass to be back in stock somewhere.

[Unclenick]

Ammo seek found some HSM at $2.50 per round. That will have good brass, though I don't know about shipping charges.

[Deltadart]

I have been resizing .32-20 brass to .25-20 as well. Just using a .25-20 FL sizing die has had less than desirable results. Brass is too difficult to come by, so any loss is painful. The Redding forming die works great. But still I run the brass through a standard .32-20 FL die first. This makes the neck round to start with. Anything less than that will cause the neck to fold into a crease.

[Lurch37]

Ammo seek found some HSM at $2.50 per round. That will have good brass, though I don't know about shipping charges.

I can't even find that load on HSM's website, I'm assuming it's an all lead bullet but it's hard to know. They have another 25-20 load from Deadeye Precision that's a lead bullet, but neither bullet has any specs other than bullet weight. Deadeye's website doesn't list the 25-20 load either.

Although I haven't purchased anything yet, when I added 2 boxes of the HSM to my cart it gave me free shipping.

I have been resizing .32-20 brass to .25-20 as well. Just using a .25-20 FL sizing die has had less than desirable results. Brass is too difficult to come by, so any loss is painful. The Redding forming die works great. But still I run the brass through a standard .32-20 FL die first. This makes the neck round to start with. Anything less than that will cause the neck to fold into a crease.

So if I understand you correctly, to form from 32-20 brass, I need 25-20 dies, a 32-20 sizing die, a 25-20 trim die, and a Redding forming die? What exactly is the forming die?

[Deltadart]

I have the .25-20 loading dies, a .32-20 Fl die, and the .25-20 forming die. All of the .32-20 brass I have is from Starline and does not need to be trimmed. Some use a file to trim with on the forming die. But I have not done that since 1966 when I was making .17 Ackley Bee rounds from .218 Bee. I never liked trimming with a file. I use the RCBS Trim Pro and it works just fine for me. The Lee trimming cutter and shell holder would be just fine as well and perhaps a little faster using a drill. Attached is a photo of .32-20 attempt to resize to .25-20 using a .25-20 FL die. Some folks have had success, but I am not one of them.

[WestDivide]

"No. 32-20 guns have a nominal 0.311" groove bore, and 25-20s have a nominal 0.256" groove bore, so the difference is 0.055"."


My mistake, I didn't think through my decimals enough :-(

[Unclenick]

Lurch37,

It's still on Ammoseek; 86-grain RNFP bullet, but, as you say, HSM doesn't list it, so it might be a very old listing. I don't know.

The vendor is an outfit I am unfamiliar with called Big K Ammo. It is here. Even though the Ammoseek link connects to that data, if you use their website to search, you don't find the HSM product, but rather a slightly less expensive ($119) price on remanufactured 25-20. That will get you brass if the deal is legitimate, but there are no guarantees as to the condition of the brass or its reloading life expectancy.

Big K has no phone number to call that I can readily spot and no indication of what is in or out of stock. They do take credit cards, unlike most fraud sites. Whois has them registered through GoDaddy and not a foreign registrant, and the contact number for the website is in Arizona, though that doesn't necessarily prove anything. They have an email contact app, but that's about it. So, I don't know if it is legitimate or not. Caveat Emptor.

[Lurch37]

Big K has no phone number to call that I can readily spot and no indication of what is in or out of stock.

I did a little more digging around and found the same phone number on a couple different websites for Big K. I'm thinking it's a legit place so I'm going to email him and ask about the ammo. Thanks.

P.S. I just happened to run across an auction of his on GB so, again, if one wanted to buy from him I think your good to go.

[Unclenick]

Sounds good. Thanks for posting the added research.

[Deltadart]

The cost from Big K is pretty expensive, 120.00 for a box of 50 rounds of .25-20 WCF with a 86 grain LFN bullet. But at least you would have some brass. They do not give any ballistics or info on the cartridge, I will guess it is somewhere around 1300 feet, hopefully they have gas checks on them.

[Smoke & Recoil]

Search...Langham Auctioneers Inc. located in Illinois, there are (2) 25-20 lots there.

[Deltadart]

I tried there search on the auction website for Langham and they have no listings for the .25-20 at this time. Someone must have gotten there first.

[Smoke & Recoil]

Still there...Screenshot_20240221_194839_Samsung Internet.jpg auction ends February 25th 2024.