.308 light hunting load - anyone got one?

[alancac98]

I just won a Ruger American Predator in .308. I would like to work up a lighter than normal load for deer hunting and looking to load a Sierra Prohunter 150. The reason for this is I hunt a brushier area and my longest shot might be about 100 yards. I have shot a 30-30 all my life and feel it is a fantastic deer rifle that kills but does not mutilate: I've taken way more than my fair share of deer with it. I have seen deer shot with .308 and .30-06 loads and they do some major damage and blood shock a whole lot of meet. If you hit a front shoulder, that shoulder is worthless. I have always liked the .308 round and would love to hunt deer with it (my grandson wants to hunt with as well). I once read that you can load a .30-06 or .308 down to 30-30 specs with H4895, but can't find any specifics on it. I load for pistols, but am just now getting into rifle reloading (my brother always reloaded my 30-30 ammo for me). Anyone have info or any ideas? Thanks.

[Recycled bullet]

I do some hand loading with IMR 3031 and 308 Winchester with reduced powder charges and cast lead bullets. I looked at load data for the 30/40 krag and 300 Savage I used that as starting loading data and worked my way up until the group's opened up. I have no idea if they will perform on game I am only shooting paper targets at 50 yards.

[rc]

What about using the barns 130 grain all copper bullets for your hunting loads in 308. A monolithic bullet will not blow up like a lead core soft tip and 130 grain loads should reduce some recoil.

[44 AMP]

Look in your reloading manuals, and look at the .308 Win starting loads.

with a 150gr bullet, starting loads are in the 2500fps range. Max loads are in the 27-2800fps range.

The starting load might be the level you're looking for. If its still too hot, most of the medium burn rate powders will reduce pretty safely you should have no trouble backing the .308 down to .300 Savage levels or even less. The manuals are all geared to getting the most out of the rounds, not the least, so published data is scarce.

Whether or not reduced loads will be accurate in your gun, I can't say. Generally light loads tend to be accurate, but each gun and ammo combination is unique to itself and only shooting will show what it actually does.

[ligonierbill]

I'm heading for Hyner tomorrow. My advice is load up some 180 cup-and-core bullets.

[Mike / Tx]

I have used the H4895 reduced loads and they have shot quite accurately. Go with the 130gr Barnes or the 150-170gr RN for the 30-30.

Follow the instructions on this link,
H4895 Reduced Recoil Loads

[GeauxTide]

Typical starting load of H4895 for a 150 is 37 grains over a LR Primer for around 2500fps.

[44 AMP]

Go with the 130gr Barnes or the 150-170gr RN for the 30-30.

If your concern is excessive bullet "blow up" DO NOT run the 150-170gr .30-30 bullets in rounds significantly faster than .30-30. You will NOT be happy with the results, if you do.

Those bullets are built to give decent, controlled expansion at .30-30 MV speeds and less (velocity at 100-150 yds, etc).

Generally speaking they will still perform well when velocity is a couple hundred feet faster, but more than that and you will see issues. I can tell you from personal experiments that a .30-30 bullet, pushed up to 28-3000fps does not expand like a deer bullet, it "grenades" like a varmint bullet.

The same sort of thing happens to .357 125gr JHPs fired from carbines at max speeds.

Every expanding bullet has a range of velocity it works inside of. To low, it doesn't expand. Too high, it expands too much, too fast aka "grenades".

You might call the bullet maker and get that information from them. Its usually not in the published data.

[totaldla]

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

I'm heading for Hyner tomorrow. My advice is load up some 180 cup-and-core bullets.

I'll second that. You can't launch a 180gr fast enough from a 308 to "grenade". The heavier bullet will mushroom a little and blow right through a deer.

[Recycled bullet]

The loading data on hodgdons website for 308 Winchester and 110 Grain bullets is very interesting. Most of the starting loads are between 2,800 to 3,000 feet per second. Is the Barnes ttsx bullet strong enough to not explosively fragment if shot that fast at close range at a deer?

[Paul B.]

"If your concern is excessive bullet "blow up" DO NOT run the 150-170gr .30-30 bullets in rounds significantly faster than .30-30. You will NOT be happy with the results, if you do."

I'll second that motion. I used to hunt the Northwest corner of California a very long time ago. Rifle most of the time was an 18" barreled 1903 Springfield with peep sight. Load of choice was a 170 gr. 30-30 bullet at a bit over 2400 FPS.Very messy. Most shot were not much more than 25 to maybe a 50 yards "long" shot but the upshot was drop that deer now. If they ran off, odds are they were lost. This was way back in the late 1950s early 1960s just prior to me entering military service in late 1960. I don't remember the exact loads but it was a 30-06 with 180 gr. round nose, usually Sierras at roughly 2400/2450 FPS. Still some meat damage but but tolerable. You should be able to come close to that level in a .308 using H4895.
Paul B.

[Drm50]

When Springfield brought out the M1a they use to include suggested accuracy loads using Speer 130 gr HPs. / IMR-4895. Loaded for M1a with good results. In mypre 64 M70 Win FW they were “ nail drivers “ literally. With 6x Leupold off rest you could shoot the heads off the roofing nails holding target. From that day on was my standard deer load in that rifle. Bullet expands well at approx. 2800fps.

[alancac98]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I looked up the Hodgdon site concerning using the 60% of max load as a start point. I was definitely thinking of using a 30-30 170 gr. bullet to load and this helps a lot: H4895 seems like a great place to start the journey. My concern with using lighter bullets such as the 110-130 gr. bullets would be the potential for ricocheting off limbs and such. The area is pretty thick with some small openings up on top of the hill, but there is a real nice opening from an old tram road that goes down over to a creek. You can never tell where the deer will be so I have to have a load that will work for both areas. Looks like a spring/summer type of thing where I can borrow a buddies chronograph to check velocities. Yeah, I have heard bad things about pushing a 30-30 bullet too fast, so I want to try and keep it to standard loaded velocities from manufacturers.

[bamaranger]

I can not advise the load, but I used the 30-30 170gr bullet in .308 loaded down for a youth about 20 yrs ago. I do recall the velocity was in the 2400 fps range. The family I loaded them for claimed they dropped deer well.
I also have a 30-06 carbine, a miserable kicker, that I down load 180 RN slugs to about 2450 fps and it seems a reliable stopper as well. Both of those loads mirror to a certain degree the old .300 Savage. Any loading manual should provide you with data to drive either of those slugs to that velocity in .308. Dropping to 150 gr RN/FN bullets in the same velocity range would reduce recoil even more and just slightly exceed 30-30 velocity and performance.

I'll add that ANY bullet v. a tree limb or twig will deflect, regardless of bullet weight. Moderate velocity and extreme weight (think 12 ga slug) might help a wee bit v. light weight and extreme velocity, but the best policy is to avoid shots through the thick stuff. As much as I hate to say it, the old "brushbuster" theory is mostly myth. My own experience is a good, clear 'scope in about 6X allows you to pick holes and windows where one can sometimes drive a bullet to your target.

Finally, I picked up the same rifle as the OP, the short Ruger Predator in .308 as a blem a few years back and it has become one of my favorite workhorse deer rifles. It carries easily while wearing a simple Leupold 1.5-4X. I load the rifle with my standard load of 45 gr of 4064 and the Sierra 150 gr ProHunter. From the stuffy bolt rifle, it reaches 2650 and groups well from the Ruger as well as my other .308's.

[paknheat]

A good .308 light load I’ve had good luck with was a 125 gn Nosler BT and Varget.

Light recoil and very accurate.
You could use a Barnes 130 grain bullet and achieve the same result.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Unclenick]

Light bullets will reduce recoil. Less penetration than a heavier one is the trade-off.

[BKS1]

25.0grs of 2400 and a 150gr Hornady 3035 have worked great for my daughter in law this year. 2 deer bang flop.

[P Flados]

I am thinking that 2300 fps is a good target if you want to shoot a 170 gr 30-30 bullet at 30-30 velocities.

Using 4895 will certainly work, but it is one of the more difficult powders to obtain right now. I ran Quickload to look for other similar powders and came up with the following list that I would think about as possible alternates.

CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Cartridge          : .308 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet             : .308, 170, Hornady FP 3060
Useable Case Capaci: 50.181 grain H2O = 3.258 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length      : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm

Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
IMR 4895                            87.7     40.5     2.63    2300    93.8    40167   10012   1.158
IMR 3031                            87.5     37.8     2.45    2300    99.2    39186    9540   1.164
Accurate 2200                       85.5     40.1     2.60    2300    92.9    43580    9456   1.112
Hodgdon H4895                       85.5     39.5     2.56    2300    94.9    41252    9770   1.146
Ramshot Wild Boar                   84.5     41.7     2.70    2300    94.0    41210    9783   1.138
Accurate 2015                       83.9     37.1     2.41    2300   100.0    43900    8738   1.132
Alliant Reloder-12                  83.2     39.3     2.54    2300    99.3    43110    9031   1.119
Ramshot X-Terminator *C             83.1     41.0     2.66    2300    94.8    43581    9417   1.118
Hodgdon H322                        82.4     37.0     2.40    2300    99.1    41825    9185   1.130
Accurate 2230                       81.8     41.0     2.65    2300    95.8    43129    9414   1.132

[458winshooter]

I just took a look at Lee's modern reloading and a load that stands out for a 150 gr jacketed bullet is 46.0 gr of IMR 4350 for 2,415 fps and only 36,600 cup pressure. It is listed as both beginning and max load. That would almost duplicate a 30-30 load to a "T". It would be a lower pressure load by 308 standards so wear on your brass would be minimal as well.

[Braddock VC]

With the 308 and the bullet you have chosen, most of the loads are going to be at the top end of the bullets ability to stay in one lump if you hit any large bone.
If you want to match 30/30 ballistics my recommendation, based on what I've done in my gun with my powders etc, is buy some semi hard cast gas checked boolits with a flat meplat and use 2400, start at 18 grains and work up to 21 max. This will give around 2000 - 2200 fps with that cast boolit. Accuracy, out of my 20" BLR 81 308 is great.In the grand scheme of things the cast boolits will be cheaper than the jacketed ones and you can use them in the 30/30 (my mod 94 win shoots around 2000 fps with them and 17.5 grains of 2400 with minute of deer accuracy).
Not too noisy little recoil. Just remember to tumble lube them a couple of times with a good squirt of liquid alox. After you've loaded the cartridges wipe the nose of the bullets clean with white spirit to avoid picking up pocket fluff etc.
It's good practice for parenting too when your kids have colds.cast 2.jpghttps://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=116789&stc=1&d=1711365221

[Braddock VC]

Forgot to say, in previous post I uploaded a couple of images, these were of cartridges with 163 grn boolit gc with 16 grains of 2400, about 15 - 1600 fps, ok for accurate plinking out to maybe 100 yards but definitely not recommended for hunting deer, add 2 -5 more grains of 2400 and it's a whole different matter.

[Nathan]

Is the Barnes ttsx bullet strong enough to not explosively fragment if shot that fast at close range at a deer?

Yes.

[Nathan]

For light loads, I would fiddle around in Quickload for a 110gr Hammer at 2700fps that still gets 45000 psi. With >90%, but less than 100% fill.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Unclenick

Light bullets will reduce recoil. Less penetration than a heavier one is the trade-off.

A monocore bullet like Barnes 130 TTSX will penetrate as well as a 150-165 grain bullet. I've never recovered one from a broadside hit whitetail deer with a .300 Savage or .308 Win with the 130 grain TTSX.

[totaldla]

I have used, (via the grandkids), the 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, @2650fps - 20" barrel, on mule deer. Both at under 200 yds. Deer in the freezer without fuss. I loaded them using H4895.
My goal was to give the grandkids a low recoil deer zapper, and I was happy with the results.
Later I turned that load up to 3000fps and a bear and more deer went into the freezer - one was a 250yd shot. Again, that 125gr ballistic tip made pretty mushrooms (or we didn't recover them).
All that was done with a cheap Mossberg kids rifle.

Now the kids only want zap things with unobtaniumridiculouslyexpensive 165gr Nosler Accubonds launched out of a Sig Cross rifle. So I've worked up loads for that gun and the kids & grandkids have put deer, bear and elk in the freezer (longest shot was 360yds).

The 308 is a versatile cartridge. And pre-covid the ammo was cheap.