honest question- not intended to inflame

[Wild Bill Bucks]

I have owned both, and I don't have any problem with either type as far as accuracy, or cleaning, as both types will have to be cleaned after use. I choose to use an inline simply because I don't want to sit in the rain all day, and get a shot, just to have the water soaked percussion cap, snap. I have tried all kinds of plastic around the cap, and a rubber over the barrel, and all the other things that is supposed to keep them dry. I have also missed several deer because of dampness, using all these techniques. Inlines will go off when you pull the trigger, and so far, I have not had a primer cap that didn't fire the load, rain or no rain.

I use a scope simply because of my eye-sight, and not being able to see my open sights anymore. I don't feel that it makes me any better shooter, than when I was using open sights, but it does enable me to see what I'm shooting at, much better.
The more innovations that are made to a sport, just makes the sport more popular, and lets face it, there are plenty of deer to go around.
Having an inline Vs traditional isn't going to make you a better hunter or a better shooter.

[sundance44s]

Couldn`t help but throw in my 2 cents .. after much thought and much obersavation ... i think us old farts like to do things the hard way because we only wish to be as much a man as our fore fathers .... thats what makes us proud ... and it has something to do with the way we were brought up ..
The young men of today , they were brought up in a high tech world ..and to them an in line gun is pretty primitive ....guys remember your first car? now remember your sons first car ? do you see what i mean ? lets just be proud they are out there hunting and hope they eat what they kill ... and i`ll die a happy front stuffing , side lock shooting ...hero in my own mind . inline guys ..happy hunting ..and lets keep die hard Americans able to feed their selves .. and protect their right to keep and bear arms ... no matter where the cap is on their guns .

[P-990]

Wow.

I personally haven't been muzzleloader hunting in a few years. I distinctly remember my first time, at the end of the day, taking aim at a rotting old tree stump and getting a sharp WHACK!! out of my sidehammer. Talk about disappointing when I was expecting a great loud KABOOM!! I learned how to keep a sidehammer running and fired a couple quite a few times.

Just today though, I went out an traded for a brand-new Thompson Center Encore Pro Hunter Katahdin 209x50. What a major difference! Where my old sidehammer with a #11 cap would start to misfire after 3 rounds, the Encore will reliably set everything ablaze. Doesn't kick too badly loaded with 2 Pyrodex pellets and a Powerbely bullet either.

I'm admittedly looking forward to taking it deer hunting this season. Although I am considering a companion .45-70 barrel for it for regular deer season, I may just use it as-is the whole season. We'll see.

Now someday I'd really like a .45 cal flinter for a range gun. But for making meat, honestly, I want the inline and the 209, as long as the law allows it.

[Steve499]

DonR101395, there is quite a similar division in the bowhunting community. The compound bow shooters are comparable to the in line shooters, the recurve and longbow shooters comparable with the sidehammer percussion shooters, and the primitive all-wood-and-sinew-I-made-it-myself folks comparable to those who only go with flintlocks or earlier technology.

Several others have stated the same thing I feel about the issue. Personally, I just don't like in lines. I will not hunt with one only because I think they are UuUuUgly! I don't own a compound bow for exactly the same reason, along with their complication which makes them difficult to do any repairs without a bow vise, etc. That said, I am happy others have discovered hunting through the use of whichever technology they have chosen. In our modern world the hunting community has diminished as a percentage of the population to such a degree that we just can't afford to have internal squabbles about equipment. The anti-hunting people just love it!

Steve

[gmatov]

Steve,

Absolutely correct. I don't like them either, but that's just me. Anyone else wants one, he's welcome to them.

Same as the gungrabbers taking them away 1 type at a time. The way they did in Australia, England and Canada.

"Assault weapons" were OK to go by a large number of shooters who don't use them. Who cares? Semis have been targeted. Bullets have been targeted.

Now, we sound like we'd just as soon take ILs away from hunters who find them easier to shoot than traditionals.

Remember, they take away theirs, yours will be next, and they won't care if they take away yours, because they are no longer in the shooting sports.

We hang together or we hang seperately.

Cheers,

George

(I think someone famous said that about 230 years ago.)

[DonR101395]

Thanks Steve, GM,
I haven't hunted in a few years since moving to Florida. I used to hunt bow (Bear Kodiak recurve), but never got into the blackpowder much. I've been getting more interest in BP as of late though and have to agree I don't care for the inline rifle looks, but I'm glad people are at least getting out and shooting.

[Desertfox]

My 2 cents. I started deer hunting with a used compound bow. No firearm season was available in my Texas county. I learned to hunt with it and bagged my first deer the second season. Advanced to a new compound and had more success. I learned and got better hunting and took up a recurve. Took my first deer with a recurve. Loved it!
I moved to a county that has all three seasons. I bought a rifle and took deer the first year. I still hunt archery season with success but wanted to learn firearm hunting. I purchased an IL muzzleloader last year and shot my first deer with open sights. Loved it!
Now I am wanting to build my own flintlock and harvest a deer with it.
If I didn't experience the IL muzzleloader hunting, I probably wouldn't be wanting to go more primative.
I just think that any type of hunting that is legal and done with good respect for others and the wildlife is a great thing. I am thankful every day I walk into the woods with whatever weapon I choose.
Freedom of choice, I carried an M16 for 9 years to ensure you can carry whatever the law allows into your local woods.
Enjoy it and enjoy having the ability to express your opinion.

[Wayner]

When people talk about the sidelocks being inferior and inefficient because of misfires in the rain or whatever there are two reasons to me. One reason is that there are unscrupulous venders out there that sell bad guns cheaply constructed. That is one of the main reasons the in-line took root. Cheap sidelocks that were difficult to keep shooting. Cheap sidelocks with the wrong rifling twist and depth for conicals. Cheap sidelocks with flash channels with 90 degree route from the cap to the powder. ect. ect. A lot of people didn't know how to keep the guns shooting consistantly. Then the inline was born out of those frustrations and was touted as better. They were in general. They finally had rifling condusive to firing conicals accurately. Flash channels that had a straight route from the flash to the powder ect. ect. In the early years of the inlines it was just difficult to buy a good sidelock. It was even more difficult to buy a good custom sidelock. In general the inlines were and are still better guns than most sidelocks for the general shooting fraternity. A buckskinner may take even the cheapest sidelock out and make meat efficiently but only because they understand the problems with the guns and know how to make them work well. They understand the inefficiencies of the sidelocks.I'm not saying the side locks are not good guns. I guess I'm saying too many of them were just cheap junk and a lot of people didn't understand why.If there wasn't so many cheap junk ill designed sidelocks on the market the inline would never have been born.
The other reason sidelocks are considered inferior is the lack of understanding about shooting blackpowder and muzzleloading rifles. A good sidelock is just as efficient of a hunting weapon as an inline rifle. The person just has to know how to keep the sidelock shooting well in all the different weather conditions. The sidelocks are just as faithful as the inline if the person knows what they are doing with them. I have sidelocks that I've hunted deer with for 25 years. I was lucky to have read magazines and such (MuzzleBlasts ect. ect.) to teach me the knowledge the old timers used to keep making meat with them. I learned because I was fixated on hunting like "Jerimiah Johnson" hee hee I've hunted in pouring rain for a week just to finally take my shot at the buck with a rifle loaded the first day of the season. The sidelock Hawken fired just fine after a week in the rain.I knew how to keep the powder and cap dry. I improvised on the old timers act of using wax to seal the cap and muzzle. I knew how to do it even in the rain if need be and carried the tools to do it. I later improved the method by using a percussion cap can full of "Toilet sealing wax" to seal the gun. Sticky wax. I had my brother drop my rifle in a creek crossing and have it submerged in the water and still days later kill a buck with it and had no fear of misfire and didn't reload the gun after using it in the rain and having it fall into the creek and be submerged. The cap was sealed with the sticky wax and the muzzle was sealed with a little circle of wax cough drop wrapper stuck to the muzzle with the sticky toilet ring wax. hee hee The gun would have fired under water if need be, hee hee There are people that can hunt all day in the rain with a flintlock and have it fire when the need arises. The average guy doesn't have the time or interest to mess around with all that kind of stuff. They work hard all week and want to pick up a rifle and go hunt without all the finicky tricky stuff to contend with. The inlines were built for them. The average working man that doesn't have the time nor inclination to be like a buckskinner and learn all the tricks of the trade. Anyhow I'm a dyed in the wool traditionalist but I know a good rifle when I see one and the inlines are good rifles mostly. There are still cheapies out there and it pays to stick with the major manufacturers and pay the money for a good one. There are inlines out there that bullet weight for bullet weight and vel. for vel. they are firing projectiles that rival the 458 Winchester magnum and the 30-06. There is a rifle out there that can fire 250 grains of powder! Well if a guy doesn't give in to the urge to try to shoot beyond his capabilities and wound game with his long range inline rifle then the rifles can be efficient hunting tools. The sidelocks can be very fine hunting tools too. Just not as flat shooting or as far shooting as most inlines. In truth though how many men take the time to get to be good enough with their new inlines to shoot out to 200-300 yards off-hand and be ethical while hunting game animals? I think most average people are lucky to hit a kill zone of a game animal consistantly at 50-75 yards. I guess I'm saying that sidelocks and inlines both are up to the task of hunting game when the capabilities of the average hunter are taken into account. Within the distances that the average hunter(over worked and little time for range practice) can shoot consistantly even the "round lead ball" is plenty of bullet to kill most anything. I build sidelock Hawkens rifles for hunting and display. I have made round ball guns and conical guns. The right barrels and rifling for whichever projectile a person wishes to shoot. I hunt with a homemade Hawken that fires a 500 grain lead bullet over 75 grains of FFg powder and it will keep up with and even out shoot an inline using twice the powder even at long range. My rifle is effectively a 45/70 shooting the 500grain bullet. Slow and deadly even on large game out to 800 yards and beyond. Using 75 grains of powder. It is actually akin to a Sharps or Rolling block rifle shooting blackpowder cartridges. Rainbow trajectory galore. The longest shot I've taken on deer sized game? About 100 yards. Most of my shots anymore are as close as three yards on deer. I'm old and can't see well and wait fer the shot. I get my limit of deer every season. Lucky and experienced I guess. I can use the round ball which is a very efficient killer of game or the conicals. I have both types of rifles. I've never had a deer escape the killing powder of a lead round ball. They go down right now! I guess I'm saying the 150 grains of powder and all the conicals shooting from inlines like high powered smokeless rifles aren't needed. I guess I respect the use of the inlines and the hunters that use them though because the inlines are efficient hunting tools. Anyhow...if anyone is wondering how I can load a 45/70 lead bullet weighing 500grains into my muzzleloader I'll tell you. The rifle barrel maker that made the barrel for me rifled it the same as his 45/70 cartridge barrels and made a bullet swage from the end of the barrel after rifling it. The bullets are placed on the bullet swage and are tapped thru base first with a rubber hammer and then driven thru with a dowell rod. The bullet is engraved with the rifling so loading is very easy. Without the bullet swage the bullets would turn into lead mushrooms when trying to load them into the muzzle. hee hee I've been pondering gettin one of those Savage rifles that are muzzleloading and can use modern smokeless powder. hee hee I'd like to build a Hawken that could use smokess powder. Just for the challenge of it. I'm thinking of building a muzzleloader that is made from converting a Sharps rifle from cartridge to muzzleloader. I'd like to convert a Remington Rolling Block cartridge rifle to muzzleloader too.Hee Hee Cartridge rifles aren't lawful in this state I live in. Funny. Inlines that are more powerful than quite a few good cartridge rifles are allowed but not the cartridge rifles. Cartridge rifles like the 45/70 and the 30-30, and the 44 magmun carbine lever action. There are inlines that are farther shooting and more powderful than those but the cartridge rifles aren't allowed in this state. Maybe I should get an inline that can fire a 250 grain projectile in the 458 Winchester or 30-06 range of power?

[Doubletaptap]

No comparison. Totally different animals.
The only thing they have in common is you load em in front.
The caplock is a very dependable ingition system. So is the 209 primer,maybe even a little more so because it's refined and engineered to death.
The inline is built to fire heavy or light projectiles with emongus loads of powder for long distances accurately.
The caplock would not stand the pressures of inline loads without hammer blowback or blowing the drum off the barrel.
I've seen the inside of a lock tore apart by a fool and his (too much) powder.
Both can be fun to shoot. Both will make meat. Both can be very accurate.
Both can be expensive. Both can give you trouble.
It's up the owner what they enjoy. I don't see why there has to be a "which is better". It's like comparing a single shot bolt action to a semi-auto.
I figger if ya want to make a muzzleloader shoot like a 30-06, save time and frustration and go get a 30-06.
Inlines vs Cappers. No comparison. Same as flinters vs rope burners or wheelies. They're just two different type machines.

[Sarge]

I suppose that many hunt with a ML to get an extra week or two to of deer hunting, depending on your state. I have done this myself.

The inlines have advantages in pure performace- no doubt. I don't sneer at the inline guys for employing those advantages, anymore than I feel animosity toward the guy using a scoped 7mm Mag, while I am out hunting with an iron-sighted 4" S&W .44 magnum- or my primitive-sighted .50 Hawken. He is going to make shots that I can't even think about. That's OK. The deer I have killed with my old sixgun will be remembered, long after those I have placed in the crosshairs of my 30-06.

Handgun hunting has taught me that all hunting is a game of self-imposed limitations. Hunt with whatever you want, but be man enough to not whine about the other guy's rig. You can always go get yourself a .278 Superwakazooma Short Fat Ultramag and a 39 power tacticool night scope with rangefinders, mildots and about 12 other things clutter your field of view. You might even see the deer you kill well enough to remember what he looked like in his natural element, right before you sent that mini-ICBM into his neighborhood.

It'll be cool with me if you do. I'll be the guy over the hill, who plunks an inefficient old .44 or .50 slug through the ones you scare out- when that howitzer goes off.

It's all good. At least we're out here hunting, instead of sitting on the couch listening to some moron explain what last week's news 'meant'.

[contender6030]

I'm sorta on the fence with this subject, I have a TC scout which is an inline but used percussion caps. I love shooting my scout but have often wondered if there wasn't a way to convert it to 209 primers just for reliabilitys sake.

[Sarge]

I converted the Hawken to use musket caps, and have no misfires and faster ignition as a result. I always liked the Scout. See if you can find a musket nipple for it, and you may just find it enough of an improvement to make you happy.

[kcajeel]

Why be so resistant to change and improvement. Thats why I didnt have the Amish to build my barn. Theyre stuck in the 19th century. You dont have to have an inline to kill deer. I'm 61, been a small game hunter all my life. Owned a knight for about 13 years, but not interested in shooting a deer. I sure like to take it out to my range tho. Along with my 44 Kentucky percussion, and my ar 15. Everyone is different, cant we get along, lol. My 2 cents, thanks

[Smokin_Gun]

Why be so resistant to change and improvement.

I'm not against change or improvement as long as it doesn't close muzzleloading Deer season in specific areas, or my 2nd Amendment Rights/rules declassifying "antique firearms" and having to register them. Pay FFL fees, ect.
I'm a Traditionalist, don't really wanna see an In-Line at my Rondevous. My choice and reasons are very valid and you did ask. People spend alot of time and money and the money ain't nothin' compared to being able to shoot at a Rondevous with others that appreciate our Heritage. Or Hunt like it was done 200 years ago. There's alot more to it than a gun.

In-lines got there place, I just hope the Traditional sidelocks don't get dragged into the in-line place when the rules get changed.
I won't own one they are too dang ugly...LoL!

[sundance44s]

Musket caps ? clean it right and ya don`t need Musket caps or 209 primmers .

[Doubletaptap]

There will always be a rivalry.
My home forum has a rivalry between cappers and flinters. I get razzed all the time(good naturedly of course) about preferring a capper to a flinter because I just never had any luck with a flinter. Maybe because I never had a good properly tuned one.
And there we barely dare say the word...choke...gasp...INLINE!!!!!
Inlines have their place, but I don't care for them. If I'm going to spend all that cash on a gun and supplies for a inline,I'd rather send the cash to Jackie Brown and have him make me a fine rifle.(capper of course)
It's good for extra sales in the stores to sell inlines. They're practically indestructible if used normally and shoot long distance quite well if you don't mind the kick of 150gr. of FFG on a 300+ gr. bullet knocking you down when you touch her off!!!
It's good extra money for muzz season licenses and again,there'll always be a rivalry!

[FirstFreedom]

I could care less about In-lines as long as they don't continue to screw up hunting and/or gun laws for the rest of us.

Smokin Gun, I'm trying to understand your perspective, but I must say I'm having a hard time.

How is it again that inlines and/or inline hunters 'screw up' hunting and gun laws for the traditional sidelockers?

You also raise red herrings. If you don't like *seeing* inlines, then by all means, don't go to a camp with people who use them. Choose a new camp. Hunt solo. And as for re-classifying sidelock MLs into firearms, so that you have to register your sidelock? First, you don't register guns (in most states anyhow), you go through a background check. Second, that's simply a matter of politics and politicians you (we) vote for. Do you think that people who use inlines are actually going to vote for politicians who would want to extend gun restrictions & gun "control", in any way, let alone expanding background checks or registration to MLs? No, not any of us with any political conscience. So therefore it's no more likely to result in a change in those type of laws than if inlines did not exist and/or were not legal during ML season. One's got nothing to do with the other. And third, it's ONLY the smokeless powder ML (Savage 10) and the MLs that can accept other centerfire barrels that require a white form, not any other MLs. If the gov't doesn't even perform a check on inlines which are BP only, then they're surely not going to come after your precious sidelocks. And finally, what's stopping you from using completely traditional gear during ML season, regardless of the regs? Or for that matter, during regular gun season? Get over yourself, and like someone said, live and let live. I don't see how it's harming you in any way. But maybe I'm missing something; please explain if I am. Actually, I can see one valid point you may have here. *To the extent that* a state requires orange during primitive season *solely due to* the extended range capabilities of the 150 gr inlines, then I can see why that would irritate you if you want to wear buckskin with fringe and coonskin hat. BUT, many states may have come to the conclusion that orange should/ would be required for safety's sake regardless of ML equipment type allowed - after all, primitive MLs still have a MUCH longer and more deadly range than any archery equipment, and second, even if the state didn't mandate it, wearing orange would be a good idea, and I would probably still use it. Maybe an orange-banded buckskin outfit? When there's a bunch of people in the woods, on diminishing public hunting grounds and such, orange is just the smart thing to do.

Doubletaptap, I disagree - they are not two "completely" different animals (for those of us who use lighter loads, similar to BP charges). They are essentially exactly the same - the only differences are that (1) Traditional guns are pretty (for the most part); the inlines are ugly (for the most part), (2) the inlines have removable breech plugs, which makes cleaning easier & better, and (3) the primer is shielded from moisture, as WBB alluded to, unlike a caplock perc cap. It is specifically these last two things which make some of use choose them to carry over a sidelock, and thus sacrificing looks to get these two things. The other thing of more power, yes that's an issue to some people, but I think they're kidding themselves, because most of them don't know their holdovers past 150 yards anyway with a heavy .50 cal bullet, 150 gr of BP equiv. or not. But there's nothing about a sidelock that prevents its user from using (1) powder pellets, (2) scopes, (3) FO sights, (4) conical and/or saboted bullets, and (5) BP equivalent substitutes that are easier to clean up, like Pyrodex and 777. All these are "cheats" which are not necessarily exclusive to inliners.

I would have no problem if the state said that primitive must be primitive in all respects (sidelock, no scope, nothing but loose powder, no conical bullets; only patched balls, no removable breech plugs, no fiber optic sights, no smokeless powder, etc., etc.). In fact, I would probably get into it bigtime. But the state does allow this stuff, and since they do, most people like me DO end up viewing it as just a way to extend rifle season in order to make it more likely to fill the freezer. Plus, as it happens in this state, the ML season corresponds much better to the pre-rut phase than the later rifle season, and so there is a higher chance of success for both bucks and does, so we do want to be in the woods that week. But hey, actually for this very reason, I would still want to be in the woods during this time even if they went back to making primitive truly primitive. In fact, what would be very cool is if they went back to all primitive, round balls and all, AND then move the ML season one to two weeks later than it is, so that it corresponds to the peak of the rut! Right now, there's a two-week period between ML and rifle seasons which is archery only, and this is when the rut peaks.

Anyway, sidelocks are very cool. But inline users should not be looked on as some kind of lepers. I'd actually even support the wildlife department changing it's rules back to more traditional, at the very least no scopes allowed, as it is in Colo. primitive. But until then, I'm going to use every available legal advantage (except smokeless, which IS legal here) during ML season, to fill the freezer. Now, when my hunting skills increase, I can definitely see myself eschewing the inlines for more and more traditional, to make it more challenging. Caplock, no scope, no pellets, patched ball...

Oh, and Deserfox brings up an excellent point:

I purchased an IL muzzleloader last year and shot my first deer with open sights. Loved it!
Now I am wanting to build my own flintlock and harvest a deer with it.
If I didn't experience the IL muzzleloader hunting, I probably wouldn't be wanting to go more primative.

I'm basically the same way - I probably would not be interested as I am in the sidelocks had I not started with the inline with the initial thought of just extending rifle season.

Same thing for archery. I went to an archery tourney last year put on by a traditional archery club. I had the ONLY compound bow there. NOW, as a result of talking with them and seeing their recurves, longbows, and even one-piece self-bows, and hearing the stories of the game taken with them, now I want a traditional bow myself. And, I did not hear one disparaging word uttered about my compound bow. So that's a lot more than I can say for the elitist traditional BP shooters on these forums!

So, in reality, allowing more technology will lead to more people "going primitive" as time goes by, so it adds to the numbers on the traditional side of it - to YOUR sport, Smokin Gun and others. So, it seems to me that the only way you can be against it is if you're wanting to reduce or keep steady the numbers of people in your sport, instead of wanting to increase the numbers partaking of your sport. I don't know - are you wanting to increase or hold steady, if you had your druthers? I can see not wanting to increase the numbers, so that you have the woods more to yourself during primitive season, though. So in truth, I guess I must reluctantly admit you have a point.

[Smokin_Gun]

I was trying to keep the discussion a dissussion. With my views on the matter being viewed. I surely didn't start the discussion or topic, seems my post struck a nerve with you. Now I guess you'll have to get over yourself also.
Seems you deemed to turn to my views with a story that implies an Personal attack on me...
So sorry you can't keep views as views from one indvidual to a forum. I stopped reading yours when you started making personal attacks. I will stop right now in compliance with the Forum rules.

[sundance44s]

Tempers always flare when it comes to inlines vs. sidelocks ... kinda like remmie vs. colt ..what ever ya sling hot lead with be sure of your shot and your abilitys... make your kills as quick and clean as possible .. and don`t point the business end of that thing at nothing ya don`t want to eat .// (unless your under attack).. If there`s a head on yer wall there should be meat on yer table .

[FirstFreedom]

I was just asking questions. Show me where I made a 'personal attack'. I'll glady revise.

Was this it:

Smokin Gun, I'm trying to understand your perspective, but I must say I'm having a hard time.

How is it again that inlines and/or inline hunters 'screw up' hunting and gun laws for the traditional sidelockers?

Because that's certainly not one. Yes, you definitely struck a nerve with your elitist attitude, but au contraire; I went out of my way to NOT personally attack you. Pointing out the fact that the legal issue of registration or background check is a red herring to the subject of ME harming YOU by ME using an inline, is not a personal attack. I can only conclude that you don't have a rational response to my questions, or else you would post them. Yes, I am having a conversation directed mostly at YOU, because YOU (along with others) are the one who started in about inlines messing up your life somehow. I don't see how, so I asked you to clarify. So far, you have not. In addition, I conceded in my post that you make 2 valid points, but which I considered relatively minor in the grand scheme of things. You started the conversation. I challenged the logic. You failed to answer, and bring up a red herring (untrue) of a personal attack.

When you say this:

Traditional(Real)Muzzleloader Hunters/Shooters

as you did, that seems to me like an arrogant elitist attitude in that the rest of us inliners are not "Real" hunters. It's not you, but the ideas and opinions which you express which can and should (and now are) being attacked.

[Smokin_Gun]

You really shouldn't assume so much about me...you see that's what makes it personal.

Yes, you definitely struck a nerve with your elitist attitude

Get over yourself, and like someone said, live and let live. I don't see how it's harming you in any way. But maybe I'm missing something; please explain if I am.

Youi are missing something... read my post again without growing an anyurism, I didn't knock down inlines or make dirogitoy statements about those who shoot them. I said "when" they become a problem not that they are a problem. And It is my choice not to like or dislike any darn thing I want to. So don't try and tell me what I think or talk down and try to preach Law & Life to me...Ok Bud?


I did say I'd drop it, to extend curtisy to the Forum... I consider the matter ended. Is there a problem with me dropping this discussion?

[FirstFreedom]

Yes, the problem is that you make the arrogant/elitist statement, and when you're called on it, you want to drop it. I would too, if I were you, if I couldn't defend it. But the appropriate response by you would be to either explain it, or delete it from your prior post, not try to sweep it under the rug. That would be the most courteous response to the forum, and its members - to back up your opinions. If you don't like the posted responses to your arrogance, there is a simple solution - don't do it!

[Smokin_Gun]

First, Please point out my elitist or arrogant statements...
Ask a direct question that I can answer you on instead of frothing off foam at me...LoL!

I'm not against change or improvement as long as it doesn't close muzzleloading Deer season in specific areas, or my 2nd Amendment Rights/rules declassifying "antique firearms" and having to register them. Pay FFL fees, ect.
I'm a Traditionalist, don't really wanna see an In-Line at my Rondevous. My choice and reasons are very valid and you did ask. People spend alot of time and money and the money ain't nothin' compared to being able to shoot at a Rondevous with others that appreciate our Heritage. Or Hunt like it was done 200 years ago. There's alot more to it than a gun.

In-lines got there place, I just hope the Traditional sidelocks don't get dragged into the in-line place when the rules get changed.
I won't own one they are too dang ugly...LoL!

[P-990]

Well, I'm going to chime back in, though for no particular reason.

First, I own a T/C Encore Katahdin .50-caliber, which has proven to be a great, accurate, reliable muzzleloader so far.

But, I might also say that sidehammers started me into the sport of muzzleloading, and I only come back into it with an inline because I view it as a replacement for my old deer rifle, not neccessarily as a primitive firearm in any way. In this state (New Hampshire) the inline gives me an extra week and a half of hunting season, which I feel is the big benefit. I'd shoot a T/C Hawken if it was required though.

I started by using pelletized powders and blah blah blah... Now I've switched to using loose Pyrodex powder, though I'm "stuck" with sabots in this particular rifle, which aside from the cost, I don't view as a huge issue. It's a jacketed .44/.45 caliber handgun bullet, which is quite suitable for the ranges and velocities involved.

However, in the future I plan on adding a nice sidehammer percussion rifle, a pretty one, as a range shooter and hunter if I should ever find myself someplace my Encore isn't considered a muzzleloader (Massa *cough cough cough* chussetts!). Otherwise, my Encore will be my hunting companion.

It also seems to me to be suited for places where shotguns are required and muzzleloaders are allowed also. It has far less recoil than any slug-gun I've ever shot and shoots better to boot!

Good luck and good shooting all.

Edited: I like to reload for my centerfires, but hate having to travel and tinker, with the time-loss factored in. Shooting loose powder in a front-stuffer suits me well because I can experiment on promising leads right on the spot! And there's much less "at-home" preparation required.

[Wild Bill Bucks]

P990,

I agree, I like deer hunting so much, I would hunt with a pocket knife, if they had a season for them.

If four hunters were armed with a Sidelock, an Inline, a 7mm Magnum, and a pocket knife, I don't feel that any one of them would have an advantage or disadvantage over the other one, unless they were all shooting at the same deer. To each his own, since what a man hunts WITH does not MAKE him a hunter. The ability to "Bring home the bacon", is what seperates the hunters from the vegetarians.

I think that's a reasonable outlook.