no big game rifles?

Shadow9mm · December 2, 2023, 07:02 PM

So I watched the Ron Spomer video on the 9.3x62 Mauser. Got me thinking about dangerous game rifles again. Did some light looking in my usual places, Cabela's, buds guns, impact guns, for the 9.3, as well as 375 H&H, 416 rigby, and 460 weatherby. It seems that just about every gun is "no longer available". or out of stock depending on where I looked.

Have they discontinued a bunch rifles in big bore chamberings? What am I missing?

I know there are other places I can dig and look, I was just browsing, but it seemed odd to me that they seem a lot harder to find than they used to be.

FITASC · December 2, 2023, 07:52 PM

Have you tried looking on www.gunsinternational.com?

bamaranger · December 2, 2023, 08:26 PM

I am not a business man, but it would seem profitable to stock what sells. I think really "big game" hunting has been an exclusive pursuit for a long time now. You might dream of Africa or an exclusive guided elk or bear hunt, but for the average guy, it's just that, a dream. Life and the cost of living it have a way of getting in the way of dreams. No need for a big game rifle if you never will get the chance to hunt it.

The average guy, that does most of the hunting in this day and age, buys his rifle in a common medium game chambering and ammo for it at Wally World and hunts deer, bear maybe hogs, when work and obligation allows. If he's lucky, he's in a family camp or a lease if he can afford it. Anything exotic is just not plausible.

ligonierbill · December 2, 2023, 08:51 PM

I just checked Gunbroker, and while there are not a lot of them, I found rifles in most "big game" calibers. If you really want one, keep checking the used market. You'll find these rifles offered, including a box of cartridges with only one or two missing.

Pathfinder45 · December 2, 2023, 09:18 PM

I agree with everything Bamaranger said, especially this:

Quote:

when work and obligation allows.

jmr40 · December 2, 2023, 09:36 PM

There are only 4 game animals on the planet where a 30-06, or similar cartridge would be underpowered. And cartridges as small as the 6.5X55 have killed everything on the planet.

And the costs and regulations required to hunt those 4 game animals (elephant, rhino, hippo, and cape buffalo) really limit the demand for bigger rifles. There are plenty of used ones out there to satisfy the demand for a long time. I suspect you'd have a lot more success finding one in Africa than in North America.

The 375's H&H as well as the Ruger version were somewhat popular the last time I looked. That caliber is versatile enough to take the biggest game yet wouldn't be totally out of place for game as small as deer.

Hellcat1 · December 2, 2023, 10:13 PM

If a lever gun is of interest, I've seen quite a few .45-70s around. I'm pretty sure that they would qualify as a big game rifle. I love mine!

Frank

bamaranger · December 2, 2023, 11:30 PM

Then there's always that guy.........

This spring, while scouting for spring turkeys, I parked the old Bronco at a spot that gets a lot of use during deer season. When I stepped out and looked down, there laid a big, straight walled, belted brass case, what the heck......
dang Win .458 mag!

: Somebody took their elephant gun deer hunting!!

stagpanther · December 3, 2023, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Then there's always that guy.........

This spring, while scouting for spring turkeys, I parked the old Bronco at a spot that gets a lot of use during deer season. When I stepped out and looked down, there laid a big, straight walled, belted brass case, what the heck......
dang Win .458 mag!: Somebody took their elephant gun deer hunting!!

Might have been Sasquatch with body armor.

stagpanther · December 3, 2023, 08:20 AM

Obviously there's a big difference between "big game" and "dangerous game." As pointed out above--the logic of having a true dangerous game rifle only makes sense if you see yourself going on dangerous game safaris. These days, that can cost you tens of thousands of dollars to put a single trophy on your wall. The pleasures of owning and shooting one as a bench rifle is a very very small niche of the market I would suspect (though FITSAC might LOL).

That said, if I ever considered buying a dangerous game rifle I would go with one I know and have no doubt it would do the job (as long as the shooter has what it takes)--the 416 Weatherby mag.

44caliberkid · December 3, 2023, 01:57 PM

My brother just started African hunting the last two years. He uses a Model 70 in 375 H&H. His professional hunter had him bring a new Model 70 in 338 Winchester for his personal use. But for most of the over forty animals he has taken there he used a .270. The 375 Ruger is an awesome round, in either a Ruger bolt action or Mossberg Patriot. Or maybe a Remington 416 Ultra Mag. Any of these guns can be bought on line but rare to find one in a gun shop.

ligonierbill · December 3, 2023, 02:01 PM

In Africa it's plains game and big game. For the OP, what are you after? There's a big difference between 9.3x62 and 470 Weatherby.

stagpanther · December 3, 2023, 02:46 PM

Quote:

The 375 Ruger is an awesome round, in either a Ruger bolt action or Mossberg Patriot

I have a Patriot in 375 Ruger--sorta fun as a cheap platform to try it on--but not a chance in Hades would I use it in a real dangerous situation where reliability is an absolute must.

Shadow9mm · December 3, 2023, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ligonierbill

In Africa it's plains game and big game. For the OP, what are you after? There's a big difference between 9.3x62 and 470 Weatherby.

Always just wanted one of the big rifles. Will most likely just be a range toy. But i have been fascinated with them ever since i saw a 375 h&h cartridge sitting in a display case at cabelas when i was like 15. Got a cartridges of the world not long after. Thats when i fell for the 416 rigby. Got given a dummy 460 weatherby from my grandmother last year, said she flund it when she moved. Think my grandfather had one. Other side of the family got all his stuff, he passed when i was maybe 8 or so so i really dont know.

So iv always had the itch to get one of the big boys.

**44 AMP** · December 3, 2023, 03:35 PM

Between the cost, the political /criminal situation in Africa and the general demonization of trophy hunting over the last few decades, the folks going on safari had dropped considerably.

Add in the last couple years of the covid panicdemic and its even worse.

I sold my .375 H&H last year, as excess to needs. I still have my .458 and its a great deer/elk round within its range limits.

But, I don't hunt deer or elk with ELEPHANT loads! I load my .458 to hot .45-70 levels or a bit above. The really big caliber rifles make excellent medium game rifles (within their range limits) when loaded down a bit.

The fact you're not seeing many or any ONLINE, today, doesn't mean they're not available. They've always been a niche market.

stagpanther · December 3, 2023, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Always just wanted one of the big rifles. Will most likely just be a range toy. But i have been fascinated with them ever since i saw a 375 h&h cartridge sitting in a display case at cabelas when i was like 15. Got a cartridges of the world not long after. Thats when i fell for the 416 rigby. Got given a dummy 460 weatherby from my grandmother last year, said she flund it when she moved. Think my grandfather had one. Other side of the family got all his stuff, he passed when i was maybe 8 or so so i really dont know.

So iv always had the itch to get one of the big boys.

Why not?

Keep in mind a box of factory ammo can easily cost $100 to $200+ for the the big thumpers; so choose carefully with reloading in mind (unless you're rich and who cares

)

ligonierbill · December 3, 2023, 04:02 PM

OK, I'll offer this: 9.3x62 is a nice round, actually useful in North America, but it's not really a "big boy". The monster Weatherby is simply outrageous. I have never fired one, but unless you want to hurt yourself, I'd let it go. The 375s, 416s, and 458s can be had in a number of bolt action rifles and the Ruger No. 1. I had a No. 1 in 450/400 NE for awhile. Much fun, but I replaced it with one of the Portuguese Winchesters in 416 Rem Mag. (Still dreaming of a buffalo hunt.) I like that rifle. My holy grail is the 404 Jeffery, but they are pretty rare and expensive. Good luck.

44caliberkid · December 3, 2023, 08:02 PM

If you just want a big range toy, go for a 50 BMG upper on an AR. Mine is a bolt action single shot and it’s literally a blast to shoot.

stagpanther · December 3, 2023, 11:48 PM

Quote:

The monster Weatherby is simply outrageous. I have never fired one, but unless you want to hurt yourself, I'd let it go.

I haven't fired the 460, but have shot the 416 MK 5s with the 28" barrel that includes in-line brake off the bench; very reasonable "progressive" felt recoil for that level of power which I don't think will hurt you as long as you hold it right; just don't hold it loose and give it a running head start; and make sure you don't have too short eye relief to the scope.

Jim Watson · December 4, 2023, 05:29 AM

Quote:

dang Win .458 mag!: Somebody took their elephant gun deer hunting!

Quote:

I load my .458 to hot .45-70 levels

Early days of the BPCR revival, before long cases were back in production, there were some single shots called ".45 x 2 1/2" Belted" and loaded like a .45 x 2.4 or 2.6" Sharps.

I thought a .416 Remington in their lightweight gray Kevlar stock was kind of a handful, but another guy's .338 in a nice "handy" rifle was a nastier kicker.

darkgael · December 4, 2023, 07:53 AM

I will never hunt in Africa. I will, most probably, never hunt dangerous game. I knew this when I was a boy reading Bob Ruark's books. Nevertheless, I was infected with the romance of the big cartridges.....Harry Selby carried a .416 Rigby.
One day, browsing the LGS, there was a Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby. I bought it. That was more than 30 years ago. I shoot it regularly....standing, sitting, occasionally benched. It is great fun....and isn't that what it is all about? Shooting that rifle has taught me a lot.....learning how to hold a heavy kicker (lesser cartridges hold no mystery), learning not to flinch, learning how to stand/sit so that the recoil does not rearrange your geometry. I won't ever hunt with it but I will keep shooting it. I am 77.

BTW: The Rigby is an amazingly easy cartridge to reload.

stagpanther · December 4, 2023, 07:58 AM

Really good article on "why the 416 weatherby."

taylorce1 · December 4, 2023, 08:34 AM

Current Lipsey's catalog DGR rifles, you'd need to call before ordering.

.375 H&H Magnum
.375 Ruger
.416 Ruger
.416 Weatherby Mag

I think it's like anything else, manufacturers produce what sells the most. They do know there is a demand for DGR rifles thats why they keep them cataloged. Then every few years they make a few and they'll sit on a warehouse shelf until someone orders them.

Luckily, all you need for a DGR is a rebarrel of your current .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag. You can easily have a 9.3X62, .458 Win, .375 or .416 Ruger made from any standard length long action. That's how I converted an old push feed M70 from 7mm RM to .375 Ruger and took it on a Colorado Pronghorn hunt. I might shoot an elk or deer one of these days with it, but it'll probably never see a DGR hunt.

MarkCO · December 4, 2023, 09:38 AM

Quote:

The average guy, that does most of the hunting in this day and age, buys his rifle in a common medium game chambering and ammo for it at Wally World and hunts deer, bear maybe hogs, when work and obligation allows. If he's lucky, he's in a family camp or a lease if he can afford it. Anything exotic is just not plausible.

I think that is a big part of it. Big game hunting is under attack nationwide. Too many deer in many states, and most of the Western States are damaging (intentionally) their Deer and Elk herds. If I did not live in Colorado, no way I would be able to afford to have harvested 39 Elk and more than that in Deer, slightly less Pronghorn. I know it is a blessing and uncommon.

The 20 to 30 somethings want an "experience" and they are no longer willing to put in the effort to learn to hunt. The number of road hunters has increased significantly in the areas I hunt. Used to just be the folks from Texas and California, but now it is even residents.

America has magnumitus bad. Big bores have been replaced with super fast, smaller diameter cartridges. I'm seeing more game wounded, and not tracked and collected, than before as a result. I've helped game wardens drag several dead animals out of the woods, some that only went a few hundred yards, but the slob hunters did not check their shots.

Sadly, it might just be a harbinger of things to come.

deadcoyote · December 4, 2023, 12:11 PM

I live in rural Northern California. Similar but not the same I am amazed at the number of guys I encounter on public land hunting black tail deer with .338 win mag. I think there must be sales guy around here who promotes it. For those unfamiliar black tails are pretty scrubby little deer. They’re good eating but smaller than mule deer and white tail.

December 2, 2023, 07:52 PM	#2
FITASC Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 2014 Posts: 6,446	Have you tried looking on www.gunsinternational.com? __________________ "I believe that people have a right to decide their own destinies; people own themselves. I also believe that, in a democracy, government exists because (and only so long as) individual citizens give it a 'temporary license to exist'—in exchange for a promise that it will behave itself. In a democracy, you own the government—it doesn't own you."- Frank Zappa

December 2, 2023, 08:26 PM	#3
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,318	sales I am not a business man, but it would seem profitable to stock what sells. I think really "big game" hunting has been an exclusive pursuit for a long time now. You might dream of Africa or an exclusive guided elk or bear hunt, but for the average guy, it's just that, a dream. Life and the cost of living it have a way of getting in the way of dreams. No need for a big game rifle if you never will get the chance to hunt it. The average guy, that does most of the hunting in this day and age, buys his rifle in a common medium game chambering and ammo for it at Wally World and hunts deer, bear maybe hogs, when work and obligation allows. If he's lucky, he's in a family camp or a lease if he can afford it. Anything exotic is just not plausible.

December 2, 2023, 09:36 PM	#6
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,811	There are only 4 game animals on the planet where a 30-06, or similar cartridge would be underpowered. And cartridges as small as the 6.5X55 have killed everything on the planet. And the costs and regulations required to hunt those 4 game animals (elephant, rhino, hippo, and cape buffalo) really limit the demand for bigger rifles. There are plenty of used ones out there to satisfy the demand for a long time. I suspect you'd have a lot more success finding one in Africa than in North America. The 375's H&H as well as the Ruger version were somewhat popular the last time I looked. That caliber is versatile enough to take the biggest game yet wouldn't be totally out of place for game as small as deer. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

December 2, 2023, 11:30 PM	#8
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,318	that guy Then there's always that guy......... This spring, while scouting for spring turkeys, I parked the old Bronco at a spot that gets a lot of use during deer season. When I stepped out and looked down, there laid a big, straight walled, belted brass case, what the heck...... dang Win .458 mag!: Somebody took their elephant gun deer hunting!!

December 3, 2023, 08:20 AM	#10
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,809	Obviously there's a big difference between "big game" and "dangerous game." As pointed out above--the logic of having a true dangerous game rifle only makes sense if you see yourself going on dangerous game safaris. These days, that can cost you tens of thousands of dollars to put a single trophy on your wall. The pleasures of owning and shooting one as a bench rifle is a very very small niche of the market I would suspect (though FITSAC might LOL). That said, if I ever considered buying a dangerous game rifle I would go with one I know and have no doubt it would do the job (as long as the shooter has what it takes)--the 416 Weatherby mag. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!* Last edited by stagpanther; December 3, 2023 at 09:52 AM.

December 2, 2023, 07:02 PM	#1
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,977	no big game rifles? So I watched the Ron Spomer video on the 9.3x62 Mauser. Got me thinking about dangerous game rifles again. Did some light looking in my usual places, Cabela's, buds guns, impact guns, for the 9.3, as well as 375 H&H, 416 rigby, and 460 weatherby. It seems that just about every gun is "no longer available". or out of stock depending on where I looked. Have they discontinued a bunch rifles in big bore chamberings? What am I missing? I know there are other places I can dig and look, I was just browsing, but it seemed odd to me that they seem a lot harder to find than they used to be. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

December 2, 2023, 08:51 PM	#4
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,459	I just checked Gunbroker, and while there are not a lot of them, I found rifles in most "big game" calibers. If you really want one, keep checking the used market. You'll find these rifles offered, including a box of cartridges with only one or two missing.

December 2, 2023, 10:13 PM	#7
Hellcat1 Member Join Date: January 29, 2022 Posts: 87	If a lever gun is of interest, I've seen quite a few .45-70s around. I'm pretty sure that they would qualify as a big game rifle. I love mine! Frank

December 3, 2023, 01:57 PM	#11
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,104	My brother just started African hunting the last two years. He uses a Model 70 in 375 H&H. His professional hunter had him bring a new Model 70 in 338 Winchester for his personal use. But for most of the over forty animals he has taken there he used a .270. The 375 Ruger is an awesome round, in either a Ruger bolt action or Mossberg Patriot. Or maybe a Remington 416 Ultra Mag. Any of these guns can be bought on line but rare to find one in a gun shop.

December 3, 2023, 02:01 PM	#12
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,459	In Africa it's plains game and big game. For the OP, what are you after? There's a big difference between 9.3x62 and 470 Weatherby.

December 3, 2023, 03:35 PM	#15
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,871	Between the cost, the political /criminal situation in Africa and the general demonization of trophy hunting over the last few decades, the folks going on safari had dropped considerably. Add in the last couple years of the covid panicdemic and its even worse. I sold my .375 H&H last year, as excess to needs. I still have my .458 and its a great deer/elk round within its range limits. But, I don't hunt deer or elk with ELEPHANT loads! I load my .458 to hot .45-70 levels or a bit above. The really big caliber rifles make excellent medium game rifles (within their range limits) when loaded down a bit. The fact you're not seeing many or any ONLINE, today, doesn't mean they're not available. They've always been a niche market. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 3, 2023, 04:02 PM	#17
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,459	OK, I'll offer this: 9.3x62 is a nice round, actually useful in North America, but it's not really a "big boy". The monster Weatherby is simply outrageous. I have never fired one, but unless you want to hurt yourself, I'd let it go. The 375s, 416s, and 458s can be had in a number of bolt action rifles and the Ruger No. 1. I had a No. 1 in 450/400 NE for awhile. Much fun, but I replaced it with one of the Portuguese Winchesters in 416 Rem Mag. (Still dreaming of a buffalo hunt.) I like that rifle. My holy grail is the 404 Jeffery, but they are pretty rare and expensive. Good luck.

December 3, 2023, 08:02 PM	#18
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,104	If you just want a big range toy, go for a 50 BMG upper on an AR. Mine is a bolt action single shot and it’s literally a blast to shoot.

December 4, 2023, 07:53 AM	#21
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	I will never hunt in Africa. I will, most probably, never hunt dangerous game. I knew this when I was a boy reading Bob Ruark's books. Nevertheless, I was infected with the romance of the big cartridges.....Harry Selby carried a .416 Rigby. One day, browsing the LGS, there was a Ruger #1 Tropical in .416 Rigby. I bought it. That was more than 30 years ago. I shoot it regularly....standing, sitting, occasionally benched. It is great fun....and isn't that what it is all about? Shooting that rifle has taught me a lot.....learning how to hold a heavy kicker (lesser cartridges hold no mystery), learning not to flinch, learning how to stand/sit so that the recoil does not rearrange your geometry. I won't ever hunt with it but I will keep shooting it. I am 77. BTW: The Rigby is an amazingly easy cartridge to reload. __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member Last edited by darkgael; December 4, 2023 at 08:03 AM.

December 4, 2023, 07:58 AM	#22
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,809	Really good article on "why the 416 weatherby." __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

December 4, 2023, 08:34 AM	#23
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,250	Current Lipsey's catalog DGR rifles, you'd need to call before ordering. .375 H&H Magnum .375 Ruger .416 Ruger .416 Weatherby Mag I think it's like anything else, manufacturers produce what sells the most. They do know there is a demand for DGR rifles thats why they keep them cataloged. Then every few years they make a few and they'll sit on a warehouse shelf until someone orders them. Luckily, all you need for a DGR is a rebarrel of your current .30-06 or 7mm Rem Mag. You can easily have a 9.3X62, .458 Win, .375 or .416 Ruger made from any standard length long action. That's how I converted an old push feed M70 from 7mm RM to .375 Ruger and took it on a Colorado Pronghorn hunt. I might shoot an elk or deer one of these days with it, but it'll probably never see a DGR hunt. __________________ NRA Life Member

December 4, 2023, 12:11 PM	#25
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 674	I live in rural Northern California. Similar but not the same I am amazed at the number of guys I encounter on public land hunting black tail deer with .338 win mag. I think there must be sales guy around here who promotes it. For those unfamiliar black tails are pretty scrubby little deer. They’re good eating but smaller than mule deer and white tail.