THOSE People At The Range

[stagpanther]

The OP did not say a shot was taken while he was down changing targets--only that he found a suspicious impact on his target. Not to pick on the OP--but that's happened to me plenty of times and I eventually found out that there are no "guarantees" when putting up targets, with the possible exception if abusive shooting destroys fixed target property faster, for example someone shows up with a full auto or tries to emulate one and destroys the target holders. In the end, what it comes down to if you want semi-private privileges, then you're going to have to either buy your own land or knock on some doors and ask for permission--that's what I ended up doing.

[stuckinthe60s]

"we have met the enemy, and the enemy is us."

[FITASC]

No roving ROs at the club I use, but they do have cameras watching every area and everyone has their own private shooting area - 5 15 yd; 5 25 yd, 2 50 yd and some with steel plates; even a rimfire only 25 yard. The only multi-use is the 100 yard area

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.4877.../data=!3m1!1e3

[4V50 Gary]

Blackpowder revolver or a left handed flintlock with a filled pan. Let the sparks and jet of hot gases fly!

Nah, I don't want to see anybody hurt. Is it any wonder that soldiers sometimes closed their eyes when they fired their firelocks?

[HKGuns]

God forbid a dad takes his kids to the range. There should be more, not less of that happening.

People can’t necessarily control where their brass ejects and lands. It’s part of being at the range, deal with it.

You sound exactly like the rude curmudgeons I like to avoid when shooting. But hey, it’s all about you isn’t it…….

[4V50 Gary]

I have a left handed 1911 that ejects back so there! (I keeeeed, I don't want anyone hurt or any animosity at the range).

[44 AMP]

Had a kid at the table to my left ping me with a few 22LR cases, so I drug out my P-38 (ejects to the left) and returned the favor with a couple 9mm cases. He got the point...

[stagpanther]

Had a kid at the table to my left ping me with a few 22LR cases

That's nothing. I once had an attractive girl with a revealing tank-top shooting an AK next me, I was so distracted watching the recoil that my shots were hitting the roof of the shooting line.I was so upset I told her to make sure she brought friends next time.

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by HKguns

People can’t necessarily control where their brass ejects and lands. It’s part of being at the range, deal with it.

Within limits, I agree. If being hit with a piece of brass ruins your range day, that's a bit delicate.

I did see a near fist fight when a fellow with an AK that reliably launched brass four benches to the right kept shooting even though he was hitting a father and son. It took the boy being beaned in the head a couple of times for him to start crying. I had a folding mesh laundry baske5 that was less than $4 at the W store. A rock in the bottom of that kept it on his bench and caught all of AK shooter's steel brass.

I've had the experience of being in the middle of a magazine (I only load to five out of habit) and having someone say "cease fire" and walk out onto the range while people were still shooting.

I've concluded that there is a culture to ranges, much like dinner tables. Sometimes people get it wrong not out of lack of consideration or less than average intelligence; they just don't know how it is done and they are in the steepest part of the range culture acclimation learning curve.

I've found that the young fellow with his first gun and the retiree new shooter and his wife are the happiest to receive a helping comment. It's rare that someone just doesn't want to do it the right way.

[Aguila Blanca]

Semi-automatic firearms generally toss the brass out and away from the shooter. That's the way they are supposed to work. I may be in a minority, but I blame the ranges. It's not like this is some big secret. Range lanes are typically six to maybe eight feet wide. Knowing that many firearms eject father than that, outdoor ranges around here have roll-down mesh screen between the lanes. When you start shooting, you're supposed to lower the screen to keep your brass in your lane. Last man (or woman) on a lane for the day rolls the screen up so it's out of the way.

Of course, these ranges have a roof over the firing stations. Don't know what the solution is on ranges that aren't covered.

[zukiphile]

Of course, these ranges have a roof over the firing stations. Don't know what the solution is on ranges that aren't covered.

My old range had some open lanes and positions under a roof. I don't shoot from under a roof or next to a revolver if I have a choice. There were no in-built screens between benches.

Half the solution has been to notice who is to the left of a position and what is on the ground before setting up. If the bench to the left has a lad with a 10/22 and a pile of banana magazines and the ground is carpeted in 22lr brass, it might not be ideal. The other half is what I'd consider normal courtesy toward someone who may not be observant. More than once I've greeted someone with "I think my brass will mostly land behind you, but let me know If I'm hitting you". That gave him an opportunity to include that information in his deliberation.

[Loupgarou]

The indoor range to which I go has divider panels between shooting stations. They go all the way to the roof so there's no migration of brass ejecta. It is a problem and paying customers should expect owners of gun store ranges to provide such simple cover. That would be a problem solved. But of course, then there would be no reason for bitching until something else is found to fit the aggravation bill.

[44 AMP]

Indoor ranges tend to be smaller (fewer lanes) and of course shorter distances, so counter (floor?) to ceiling "stalls" work well enough, but the RO (If there is one) needs to be directly behind them to see what goes on.

Outdoor ranges with a row of shooting benches (and under a roof) cover more distance, and if there are solid partitions, the RO(s) have to move constantly to cover the line.

If you're shooting a semi auto, and not at the far right end of the line, its just good manners to bring something to serve as a brass deflector or catcher. If nothing else, you can lend it to the guy on your left...

Cardboard box works just fine, and in my case, since I'm not good at bending over and picking up stuff, and shoot several guns that use brass that about nobody else uses, and I definitely DO want it back, using something for a brass catcher is just good sense.

[FITASC]

I've found that the young fellow with his first gun and the retiree new shooter and his wife are the happiest to receive a helping comment. It's rare that someone just doesn't want to do it the right way.

Yep- it is usually the "expert" who's been shooting for 35 years and knows everything who is the most complacent and thus the most dangerous

[cdoc42]

"People who did stupid things used to be ostracized by the community. Kids were raised with standards and if they didn't abide by them, the parents were *rightfully* embarrassed... and the kids punished.
Parents who raised kids without standards were known and to anyone with sense, it was embarrassing and a strong incentive to not be stupid, or let your kids do stupid things, or to embarrass your parents."

Brian, that is RIGHT On TARGET. I recently heard Nikki Haley mention the need to look to the future and not the past, so to speak, and altho I like what else I see about her, I plan to bring to her attention that I'm 4 weeks older than Biden but what you described is how I was raised and we shouldn't shoot all the dogs because one has rabies.

[cdoc42]

Pa has State-maintained public ranges with a sign posting rules and regulations. One day I was there, and all tables were occupied, so I just sat in the car, waiting for an opening.

At a break in the action, two State Game Officers exited their car in the parking lot, and went to the line, and asked, "Who is the Range Officer?" Everyone stood like deer in headlights. They pointed to the Rules sign: "At all times, someone on the line must be appointed to be the range safety officer."

Everybody on the line got fined.

[stagpanther]

Pa has State-maintained public ranges with a sign posting rules and regulations. One day I was there, and all tables were occupied, so I just sat in the car, waiting for an opening.

At a break in the action, two State Game Officers exited their car in the parking lot, and went to the line, and asked, "Who is the Range Officer?" Everyone stood like deer in headlights. They pointed to the Rules sign: "At all times, someone on the line must be appointed to be the range safety officer."

Everybody on the line got fined.

Really? I've used ranges on public hunting reserve lands similar to this in state forests. Do the rules explicitly state the qualifications and/or procedures of an appointed range safety officer? If they don't I don't see how this is legally enforceable.

[HiBC]

When a range is public and unsupervised, and when the situation calls for it,
SOMEONE has to step up and play RSO. I've done it.

Its not being a control freak. Its safety. Done right,most folks appreciate it.

There will be times to call a cease fire . Folks need to set/ check targets.

Or someone might need a "suggestion".

Each of us is responsible for safety. Its life and death. That CAN mean packing up. Or it CAN mean tactfully,respectfully educating someone. It CAN mean deliberate intervention "Whoa!! Stop! Cease fire! Cease Fire!! Stop what you are doing!! Then educate.

Its pretty cool to have a public range.Its pretty cool to have National Forest or BLM public land to hunt on,

There will always be idiots. We have to figure out how to cope. Or stay home and let the idiots have it all,

[stagpanther]

When a range is public and unsupervised, and when the situation calls for it,
SOMEONE has to step up and play RSO. I've done it.

Its not being a control freak. Its safety. Done right,most folks appreciate it.

There will be times to call a cease fire . Folks need to set/ check targets.

Agree 100%--in fact if I arrive at a public range that's not being actively supervised--I automatically assume control and do it myself. I've never had anyone complain about it or challenge it. The only thing I've had to be careful about is how far to "push" the weapons control thing, I don't tell people they have to submit their firearms for inspection--I just have to take their word for it that bolts, magazines and ammunition are out when clearing the range cold for target change. Although rare, once in a while groups of what situational awareness tells me are gang members or dangerous-behavior oddballs show up in which case I simply choose to come back another day.

[cdoc42]

@stagpanther: "Really? I've used ranges on public hunting reserve lands similar to this in state forests. Do the rules explicitly state the qualifications and/or procedures of an appointed range safety officer? If they don't I don't see how this is legally enforceable."

There are no listed qualifications. I think it is on the same basis noted by HiBC.

At the same time, I think the game officers get a bit overzealous. At the same range, there is a small target setup for handguns, off to the side and not in line with the firing line of the rifle range. I took a fellow shooter there for a handgun lesson and we used balloons as targets so he could immediately see the results of his technique. When we finished up, we cleaned all the balloon remnants, staples, etc., and tossed them in the trash. On the way back to the car the game officers called us over to their car -never got out - and asked what we were shooting, even though it was clearly visible from their location. We told them but it was really a prelude to them bringing to our attention that the "Rules" board indicated nothing other than paper targets can be used. Even though we cleaned everything up, he got a $40 fine. I can see their point if people start shooting glass, cans, etc., and don't clean it up, but I thought this was a bit over the top. I never go to that range anymore.

[Nathan]

Then bring it up at the next meeting lest the entire membership is potentially liable for truly negligent behavior.

That is a key point. Never let poor range safety go unaddressed. Do it yourself or report it to the club leadership. I find that to be important for maintaining a club’s safety record and “open” status.

Once I had a "kid" next to me with a nice rifle - while I was down range putting up a fresh target, he fired a shot while range was "cold" stating that his lane was not cold. He did this several times even after being told not to. The last time he shot while I was down range, the shot was very close to me. I walked back to him and asked to see his accurate rifle. After making sure it was unloaded, I grabbed it by the barrel and slammed it onto the conrete bench shattering the stock and crushing the scope and bolt handle. The I stated " NEVER AGAIN FIRE WHILE PEOPLE ARE DOWN RANGE!" and I left quickly never to return.

Wow! That was aggressive. How did the lawsuit go? Seriously, most are going to sue you for the rifle value. They’ll just lie about whatever caused it. I’m not sure if it would even matter legally. Shooting when someone is down range is against the rules. Destruction of property is ….well…illegal.

I also act as an RSO at all times training others to be acting RSO's to keep everyone safe so they are having fun.

This is just common courtesy. I was at a public range one time and saw a guy set his AR15 down loaded on a cold range call. I asked him to unload it. He cycled the bolt and removed the mag. He says, “are you ok?” I said, now unload the chamber and lock it open please. With discust at this kid telling him what to do, he did. I think he almost pissed himself when he saw that live round pop out, but he just acted pissed at me for holding him accountable.

I’d handle him the same today at 50, except I would call the RSO over and ask him to explain what he did to the RSO. That was about the same time I quit going to the dnr range.

ahh!

Even at my private range, I keep both eyes open. Lots of people don’t get it.

I’m struggling to get used to shotgun ranges! Many times those are circle or rectangular shaped and you shoot towards the center. Yes, you shoot towards other shooters. Crazy, huh? Shooting positions facing each other are about 150 yards apart at minimum. Have to use 7.5 or smaller target shells. I was about 100yds up range from some workers. They told me to shoot, but I said I don’t shoot towards people.

[mehavey]

I’m struggling to get used to shotgun ranges! Many times those are circle or rectangular
shaped and you shoot towards the center. Yes, you shoot towards other shooters.

What course of fire is that ?
Skeet/Trap/Clays . . . I've never seen it.

[stagpanther]

At the same time, I think the game officers get a bit overzealous. At the same range, there is a small target setup for handguns, off to the side and not in line with the firing line of the rifle range. I took a fellow shooter there for a handgun lesson and we used balloons as targets so he could immediately see the results of his technique. When we finished up, we cleaned all the balloon remnants, staples, etc., and tossed them in the trash. On the way back to the car the game officers called us over to their car -never got out - and asked what we were shooting, even though it was clearly visible from their location. We told them but it was really a prelude to them bringing to our attention that the "Rules" board indicated nothing other than paper targets can be used. Even though we cleaned everything up, he got a $40 fine. I can see their point if people start shooting glass, cans, etc., and don't clean it up, but I thought this was a bit over the top. I never go to that range anymore.

Most of the time when stuff like this happens in my experience--it's likely there has been a long trail of abuse and complaints that led up to the action. Most of the ranger types are not paid to sit in their cars and watch the leaves fall while waiting for the right moment to tag someone with a ticket. The people responsible probably will never be caught/fined--but by "getting the word out" they hope people will play nice. If not, they might just say the heck with it and close the range altogether--I've seen it happen several times.

[44 AMP]

Yes, you shoot towards other shooters.

I always thought that at shotgun ranges (where they shoot those little clay things) you shot UP IN THE AIR where the clay birds fly, NOT at other shooters...

Most of the ranger types are not paid to sit in their cars and watch the leaves fall while waiting for the right moment to tag someone with a ticket.

Most aren't. A few are, and those are the ones you're likely to meet and remember unfavorably....

[SIGSHR]

The number of people who were never taught manners, consideration for others, to follow the rules has grown so large they constitute an alternate society. You wonder what the "norm" is.