Varget powder ?

rebs · June 23, 2012, 06:49 AM

Is Varget powder mainly for heavier bullets or is it good for 55gr bullets ? Is it better in a 20" rather than in a 16" barrel AR 15 ?

DeadCenter · June 23, 2012, 08:45 AM

Generally Varget is used for heavier bullets, one problem with loading varget with light bullets you run out of room in the case for the powder if you want to get to the higher velocities. But I have got my most accurate loads for 55gr FMJBT in the 223 with a compressed load of varget. So in some instances it depends what your looking for. I would think you'd get higher velocity from a 20" barrel than a 16".

jephthai · June 23, 2012, 08:49 AM

I use varget for lighter bullets in my 270 win... like 110s.

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dacaur · June 23, 2012, 03:58 PM

Totally depends on the cartridge. You certainly cannot say that, in general, Varget is used for heavier bullets. In a .243 winchester in suitable for the lighter bullets, but not the heavier....

In a specific caliber OTOH, you can say its good for specific weights... I guess we can assume you are talking about .223, since you said AR... My hornady manual lists varget loads for bullets 55gr and above. Its too slow for lighter wight bullets in .223

oldpapps · June 23, 2012, 04:31 PM

"rebs Is Varget powder mainly for heavier bullets or is it good for 55gr bullets ? Is it better in a 20" rather than in a 16" barrel AR 15 ? "

"DeadCenter Generally Varget is used for heavier bullets, one problem with loading varget with light bullets you run out of room in the case for the powder if you want to get to the higher velocities. But I have got my most accurate loads for 55gr FMJBT in the 223 with a compressed load of varget. So in some instances it depends what your looking for. I would think you'd get higher velocity from a 20" barrel than a 16". "

Mr. rebs,

I fully agree with Mr. DeadCenter's assessment. I have only used Varget in .223/5.56 with bullets over 55gr.
I find that Varget produces more perceived (to me) concussion and muzzle blast out of a 16 inch tube than a 20 inch one (same loads).
I was expecting a little more velocity. I did a velocity for grouping test out of a 16 in barrel and the better grouping was running an average of 2815 FPS. The same load from a 20 in barrel zipped out at an average of 3012 fps, more than I had expected.
Alas, this bullet never came up to what I wanted in the accuracy department, so I stopped worrying with this combination.

I would say that Varget could/would work with lighter bullets. It is a matter of trade offs for any bullet/powder/cartridge selection.

Be safe and always error on the side of safety.

OSOK

rebs · June 23, 2012, 09:01 PM

Thank you for the replies, I have been using H335 and have been curious about Varget, that is why I asked.
I guess I'll stay with H335 since I shoot all 55 gr out of a 16" barrel AR

mohr308 · June 24, 2012, 11:02 AM

I have been loading many different bullets for my AR using Varget, CFE223 and IMR4064. So Far all have been good, but here are my loads that work for my 16" heavy barrel AR 1:9 twist. (.223/5.56)

60 gr Hornady V-max with 24.3 grains IMR4064
55 gr Nosler Varmageddon with 23.9 grains Varget
62 gr Barnes TSX BT with 25 grains CFE223

PS, all are with CCI #41 primers and PMC military brass trimmed to 1.755 with COL @ 2.250

tobnpr · June 24, 2012, 09:14 PM

Every rifle's different.
Our first rifle (my son's .223 Rem. 700) we handloaded for, I tried H335 and Varget.

Despite "everyone" having great results with H335, his rifle hated it...

Even with lighter pills, it prefers Varget across the board.

It's a great, almost universal, powder. First choice in our .308 and 7.62 x 54R, and performs very well in our 7mm-.08 (but H4350 groups a bit tighter).

If you're not getting the accuracy you think you should, experiment. That's the nature of load work-up.

Barrel harmonics are very specific to every rifle, even from the same manufacturer.

10-96 · June 25, 2012, 02:11 AM

I've been running Varget & 55gr bullets for 10-12 years now. I've found what I think is a factory duplication, and I use it with great results out of all my .223's/5.56's. At 26.5gr, I am barely starting to see the first signs of flattened primers, in all probability- probably not much more than factory loads.

I don't know when or why Varget fell out of favor straight into shame and disgrace- but it did it without my knowledge. It works great for me and as long as they make it I absolutely will not change.

rebs · June 25, 2012, 04:42 AM

My primers are slightly flattened also and I compared them with some factory rounds from American Eagle and they look close to the same. But mine are not as flattened.

mohr308 · June 25, 2012, 08:53 AM

I was talking to one of the sales guys at my local gun store, he said Varget is their #1 selling powder! He likes it also he mentioned.

rebs · June 25, 2012, 10:31 AM

Would it be possible for someone to post a picture of a normal looking primer from a fired factory round and one that shows the first sign of over pressure from a hand load ?
I hand load and don't have any factory rounds to fired and look at. My primers are a little flattened and my load is light, 24.5 of H335 under a 55 gr fmjbt.

tobnpr · June 25, 2012, 01:12 PM

This should help...

http://www.larrywillis.com/pressure%20signs.jpg

Keep in mind that primers vary in hardness, so appearances may differ. "Flatness", with a softer primer like Federal, is not necessarily a sign of overpressure.

rebs · June 25, 2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

This should help...

http://www.larrywillis.com/pressure%20signs.jpg

which of those are normal and which ar showing signs of pressure ?

Mine kind of look like the second one from the left

tobnpr · June 26, 2012, 02:25 PM

Again, there are other factors that should be looked at- but I wouldn't be concerned with a "look" like the second cartridge.

Hard bolt lift, extractor gouges, are other indications of overpressure. You have to look at all of the suspects- including velocity if you're using a chrono- to see if you're pushing the envelope.

I always use CCI primers, because I prefer the "harder" primers for several reasons- and this is one of them.

June 24, 2012, 11:02 AM	#7
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	I have been loading many different bullets for my AR using Varget, CFE223 and IMR4064. So Far all have been good, but here are my loads that work for my 16" heavy barrel AR 1:9 twist. (.223/5.56) 60 gr Hornady V-max with 24.3 grains IMR4064 55 gr Nosler Varmageddon with 23.9 grains Varget 62 gr Barnes TSX BT with 25 grains CFE223 PS, all are with CCI #41 primers and PMC military brass trimmed to 1.755 with COL @ 2.250 Last edited by mohr308; June 24, 2012 at 11:16 AM.

June 25, 2012, 02:11 AM	#9
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,160	I've been running Varget & 55gr bullets for 10-12 years now. I've found what I think is a factory duplication, and I use it with great results out of all my .223's/5.56's. At 26.5gr, I am barely starting to see the first signs of flattened primers, in all probability- probably not much more than factory loads. I don't know when or why Varget fell out of favor straight into shame and disgrace- but it did it without my knowledge. It works great for me and as long as they make it I absolutely will not change. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

June 25, 2012, 08:53 AM	#11
mohr308 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2012 Location: Western New York Posts: 466	10-96 I was talking to one of the sales guys at my local gun store, he said Varget is their #1 selling powder! He likes it also he mentioned.

June 23, 2012, 06:49 AM	#1
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Varget powder ? Is Varget powder mainly for heavier bullets or is it good for 55gr bullets ? Is it better in a 20" rather than in a 16" barrel AR 15 ?

June 23, 2012, 08:45 AM	#2
DeadCenter Senior Member Join Date: September 17, 2006 Posts: 105	Generally Varget is used for heavier bullets, one problem with loading varget with light bullets you run out of room in the case for the powder if you want to get to the higher velocities. But I have got my most accurate loads for 55gr FMJBT in the 223 with a compressed load of varget. So in some instances it depends what your looking for. I would think you'd get higher velocity from a 20" barrel than a 16".

June 23, 2012, 08:49 AM	#3
jephthai Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Posts: 463	I use varget for lighter bullets in my 270 win... like 110s. Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2

June 23, 2012, 03:58 PM	#4
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Totally depends on the cartridge. You certainly cannot say that, in general, Varget is used for heavier bullets. In a .243 winchester in suitable for the lighter bullets, but not the heavier.... In a specific caliber OTOH, you can say its good for specific weights... I guess we can assume you are talking about .223, since you said AR... My hornady manual lists varget loads for bullets 55gr and above. Its too slow for lighter wight bullets in .223

June 23, 2012, 04:31 PM	#5
oldpapps Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2011 Location: Middle America Posts: 518	"rebs Is Varget powder mainly for heavier bullets or is it good for 55gr bullets ? Is it better in a 20" rather than in a 16" barrel AR 15 ? " "DeadCenter Generally Varget is used for heavier bullets, one problem with loading varget with light bullets you run out of room in the case for the powder if you want to get to the higher velocities. But I have got my most accurate loads for 55gr FMJBT in the 223 with a compressed load of varget. So in some instances it depends what your looking for. I would think you'd get higher velocity from a 20" barrel than a 16". " Mr. rebs, I fully agree with Mr. DeadCenter's assessment. I have only used Varget in .223/5.56 with bullets over 55gr. I find that Varget produces more perceived (to me) concussion and muzzle blast out of a 16 inch tube than a 20 inch one (same loads). I was expecting a little more velocity. I did a velocity for grouping test out of a 16 in barrel and the better grouping was running an average of 2815 FPS. The same load from a 20 in barrel zipped out at an average of 3012 fps, more than I had expected. Alas, this bullet never came up to what I wanted in the accuracy department, so I stopped worrying with this combination. I would say that Varget could/would work with lighter bullets. It is a matter of trade offs for any bullet/powder/cartridge selection. Be safe and always error on the side of safety. OSOK

June 23, 2012, 09:01 PM	#6
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Thank you for the replies, I have been using H335 and have been curious about Varget, that is why I asked. I guess I'll stay with H335 since I shoot all 55 gr out of a 16" barrel AR

June 24, 2012, 09:14 PM	#8
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Every rifle's different. Our first rifle (my son's .223 Rem. 700) we handloaded for, I tried H335 and Varget. Despite "everyone" having great results with H335, his rifle hated it... Even with lighter pills, it prefers Varget across the board. It's a great, almost universal, powder. First choice in our .308 and 7.62 x 54R, and performs very well in our 7mm-.08 (but H4350 groups a bit tighter). If you're not getting the accuracy you think you should, experiment. That's the nature of load work-up. Barrel harmonics are very specific to every rifle, even from the same manufacturer.

June 25, 2012, 04:42 AM	#10
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	My primers are slightly flattened also and I compared them with some factory rounds from American Eagle and they look close to the same. But mine are not as flattened.

June 25, 2012, 10:31 AM	#12
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	Would it be possible for someone to post a picture of a normal looking primer from a fired factory round and one that shows the first sign of over pressure from a hand load ? I hand load and don't have any factory rounds to fired and look at. My primers are a little flattened and my load is light, 24.5 of H335 under a 55 gr fmjbt.

June 25, 2012, 01:12 PM	#13
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	This should help... http://www.larrywillis.com/pressure%20signs.jpg Keep in mind that primers vary in hardness, so appearances may differ. "Flatness", with a softer primer like Federal, is not necessarily a sign of overpressure.

June 26, 2012, 02:25 PM	#15
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Again, there are other factors that should be looked at- but I wouldn't be concerned with a "look" like the second cartridge. Hard bolt lift, extractor gouges, are other indications of overpressure. You have to look at all of the suspects- including velocity if you're using a chrono- to see if you're pushing the envelope. I always use CCI primers, because I prefer the "harder" primers for several reasons- and this is one of them.