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Old August 16, 2015, 10:56 AM   #26
BillM
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But yes, a rod can be connected to the powder bar to ensure that it is pulled back automatically after each charge. I just choose not to use it, bad idea.
So--Dillon provides a "failsafe rod assembly" which has the sole purpose
of ensuring that the powder measure slide returns to pick up a new charge.

You choose to not connect it, because it's a "bad idea".

Would you care to share with the rest of us WHY using the manufacturers
failsafe device is a bad idea?
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Old August 16, 2015, 11:34 AM   #27
condor bravo
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Choosing not to connect the powder bar return rod was the bad idea, not the return rod mechanism itself. I was the bad idea. I apologize for the bad wording. Should have said bad idea not to have used it.
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Old August 16, 2015, 03:41 PM   #28
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There are 2 major versions of the Dillon powder measure. The early one uses return spring(s), but it was upgraded to a dual cam operated positive return with the "Fail Safe" type.
Unfortunately many users who were familiar with the old spring-loaded system didn't like the "snap" action of the Fail Safe so they disconnected it, frequently adding springs, which Dillon advises against.
Now we see why.
Images (c) wogpotter 2014

"Old" spring return


"New" Fail Safe dual cam
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Old August 17, 2015, 10:42 PM   #29
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Funny that your first photo has the return rod in it and the second does not. The setup in the second photo would only throw one charge then be locked up.
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Old August 17, 2015, 11:28 PM   #30
condor bravo
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I cannot get Photobucket to display the images although PB seems to be installed. Perhaps wp has the jpg image descriptions reversed. If you can see a spring in the second photo, that would be the return by spring tension only without the rod. You indicate you can see the return rod in the first photo. Perhaps wp will clarify.
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Old August 18, 2015, 07:36 AM   #31
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Way, way simpler than that.

The top pic shows the early spring-loaded head mounted on on a press, the bottom has a different, later dual cam "FailSafe" head not on the press, but on a tool-head stand. The rod is removed & laying in an accessory tray.
Image is (C) Wogpotter 2014.
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Old August 18, 2015, 07:52 AM   #32
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OK everyone has a favorite and they all have their pros and cons.
These forums are great to help you decode which press will work best for you.
I have loaded on Dillons, Lee’s and Hornadays.
I personally like the Hrnadays because they are not so proprietary.
I am currently loading on a Hornaday Lock n Load and after doing all the tweaks it runs great. Dillion and Lee also have to be tweaked to get them up and running smoothly.
It’s just a matter of preference as they all work as designed it’s just a matter of who’s design works best for you.
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Old August 19, 2015, 02:30 PM   #33
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30 years ago the Dillon measures had no fail safe rod at all, or low primer alarms.



If you sent them in for refurb, they always returned with the new equipment on them.
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Old August 19, 2015, 03:57 PM   #34
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I never had a problem with my RL450 (b upgrade) from what 1978?
If a friend hadn't passed away & left me the 550b I'd probably still be using it.

Images (c) Wogpotter 2012



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Old August 19, 2015, 10:16 PM   #35
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There are many good options out there, but for 223/5.56???? The most interesting thing is that to do the case prep properly you will be using a single stage press for most of the job. Setting the shoulder back properly, trimming the case, sizing the case properly (neck and base), priming the cases, trimming the mouth and taking crimps out of the primer pockets (Mil Cases).

While rifle cases can be done on a progressive press, they really lend themselves to be done on a single stage or turret press. A progressive really does not cut down the amount of time you will need to do "case prep".

What will cut down on your time and make it more efficient is to do powdering, seating and crimping (if you do crimp) on a press that allows you to do all this at the same time. That is why I would recommend the "Lee Classic Turret" press for that job. In addition it is a workhorse for doing pistol ammo, and produces many many rounds an hour to cut down your time on those 40's and 45's and with an additional die holder can be changed over to a new caliber in seconds. That can not be said of ANY progressive press.

After all the case prep is done, this is how I load my 223/5.56's.

Jim

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Old August 20, 2015, 02:33 AM   #36
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There are many good options out there, but for 223/5.56???? The most interesting thing is that to do the case prep properly you will be using a single stage press for most of the job. Setting the shoulder back properly, trimming the case, sizing the case properly (neck and base), priming the cases, trimming the mouth and taking crimps out of the primer pockets (Mil Cases).

I don't use a single stage for .223/5.56 loading or prep.

A 650 with a Dillon trimmer will size/deprive and trim 1800/hr, then dump the cases into the 1050 beside it and it will swage and load over 1000 an hour.



You can make the process take as long as you want but that doesn't automatically mean the finished product will be any more accurate.

With the 1050 you have the built in swage station and primer seat depth is set with an Allen wrench so they are all the same start to finish without any user "feel" needed.

One of mine in action loading .223.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=La83ZVKnBzw

Last edited by jmorris; August 20, 2015 at 02:39 AM.
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Old August 20, 2015, 04:02 PM   #37
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doesn't automatically mean the finished product will be any more accurate.
???? Not sure I would agree with that statement. Nice setup you have, but your's costs 15 times the amount that I spent on mine.

Jim
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Old August 20, 2015, 05:45 PM   #38
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The fact that the time it takes to load a round does not directly impact accuracy should be pretty obvious.

There are a lot of people that can't make ammunition on a single stage as accurate as factory ammunition (many thousands an hour production rate).

You can slowly make an inaccurate round as surely as you can quickly make an accurate one.

I won't argue the cost issue but that was not a consideration brought up in the OP, for that matter neither was accuracy.

I was simply pointing out that progressive presses can most defenately drastically reduce the time it takes to both prepare as well as load rifle rounds over a single stage press.

Last edited by jmorris; August 20, 2015 at 06:06 PM.
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Old August 20, 2015, 09:36 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Road_Clam
So I've been S/S loading now for about 3 years. I'm seeing the need to load some bulk ammo as now my wife and daughter are liking the AR15 for general "zombie plinking". I need a progressive that can do .223, 40S&W , and 460 S&W mag. I need a progressive that takes up minimal space , and I have no problem compromising lesser speed for a smaller package. I'm leaning towards the Hornady Lock and Load ? Your thoughts and opinions ?
What kind of quantities are you contemplating and what rate of production do you desire? Also, what space do you have available; would you consider putting it away after use or leaving it up permanently? Lastly, what's your budget?

I used two Lee Pro-1000s for a couple decades, but finally upgraded. I was never happy operating them. Too much going on at once and my production rate was barely over 100 per hour. The Lee Loadmaster would be faster and more certain than the Lee Pro-1000, but I have no data on it. If you need 400 per hour, Dillon Square Deal (supposedly only for pistol, though-though the 223 might be within its reach, I don't know) or Dillon 550. If you want 500-600 rph, Hornady LnL AP or Dillon 650.

Prices, complexity and space requirements reflect the capacities of the above mentioned presses.

Having said all that, On the press I use now, I can load 100 rounds in 45 minutes (including replenishing powder and primers) from cleaned brass to ready-to-shoot ammunition, boxed and labeled. If you would be satisfied with 100-150 rounds per hour and the simplest caliber swaps around, consider a turret. It meets your specifications of minimal space. The ease of caliber swaps is unparalleled and the cost difference is significant. The press I use is a Lee Classic Turret. There is no better auto-advancing 4-station turret press currently manufactured anywhere in the world. But it isn't a progressive, so if you need one, good luck.

Lost Sheep

Also, see my private message I sent you.
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Old August 21, 2015, 05:27 AM   #40
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Lost Sheep, I'm thinking I would like to have the ability load up say 100 rounds of plinker .223 in 1-2 hrs (brass being previously prepped). I also want to be able to easily swap the progressive press back to my S/S press. I am more of a precision long gun shooter than a semi-auto trigger slapper type LOL . I'm even having a look at the Hornady Classic turret press, that might serve my needs sufficiently as well.
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Old August 21, 2015, 06:18 AM   #41
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I'm even having a look at the Hornady Classic turret press, that might serve my needs sufficiently as well.
Do you mean the Lee turret?
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Old August 21, 2015, 06:26 AM   #42
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If you are going to remove the press from the bench when needing the space for a different press, and since you are a machinist, I suggest mounting the progressive to a plate that has outboard bolts that are more readily accessed.

The Lee turret can be mounted to Lee's quick change base. Mine is like that but I rarely have dismounted it.
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Old August 21, 2015, 08:59 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Real Gun
Do you mean the Lee turret?
Good catch... "LEE Classic Turret" is what I was trying to state. Regardless of which press I choose I do plan to fabricate some type of tongue type quick mount (like the unit from inline fab) to work with my column riser.
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Old August 21, 2015, 10:15 AM   #44
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Mounting a press, I have clamps, the Italians call them capos. I use stands, clamps come in various shapes for different purposes. My favorite clamps are the heavy type and the ones with a long reach, the long reach makes it possible to install and get them out of the way.

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Old August 21, 2015, 12:25 PM   #45
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I'm thinking I would like to have the ability load up say 100 rounds of plinker .223 in 1-2 hrs (brass being previously prepped).
I don't think you need to spend the money on a progressive. A 650 decked out will load 100 rounds in under 4 min but will cost a lot more than something that will load 100 in 2 hours.
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Old August 21, 2015, 09:21 PM   #46
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I think that Hornady is still offering a bunch of free bullets with a press purchase. So you might want to factor that into your total cost.
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Old August 23, 2015, 12:16 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Clam
swap the progressive press back to my S/S press.
You may not need to swap presses if one press can serve both operating modes.

Progressive presses' native operating mode is continuous. Single stage presses' native (and, indeed, only practical) operating mode is batch.

Any turret press can operate as a single stage. Any turret press can also operate in continuous mode (put the empty case in the press and perform all steps until a finished cartridge comes out, then insert the next empty case). An auto-advancing turret is much better at continuous mode than a manually advancing, but either can do. Lee makes the only two auto-advancing/auto-indexing turrets on the market today, the Lee Deluxe Turret and the (superior in almost every way) Lee Classic Turret.

Quote:
I am more of a precision long gun shooter
The advantage of a really strong single stage press (or the Forster Co-Ax) is in precision loading. Turret presses (and progressives) have some play (necessitated by design) which, some say, can introduce variances in the ammunition produced. Others say, not so much.

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; August 23, 2015 at 12:21 AM.
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Old August 23, 2015, 12:54 AM   #48
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Ahhh who needs to spend extra on a Blue color???
Get the LNL AP and 500 Bullets!!! Order the most in demand of the bullets and sell them for $100.

Seriously though I have had no issues with my LNL AP.

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Old August 23, 2015, 06:37 AM   #49
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I think that Hornady is still offering a bunch of free bullets with a press purchase. So you might want to factor that into your total cost.
Noting that bullet choices offered are limited. I have never used the offer, qualifying for more than one, because I had no use for the bullets I could get. Their value to a purchase decision is too often overstated.
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Old August 23, 2015, 06:42 AM   #50
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Seriously though I have had no issues with my LNL AP.
I couldn't say that, because I complicated it all by adding a case feeder, priming on the press, and Hornady's powder measure/expander. Your picture shows bare bones with an all Lee top end. Probably works great. I have replaced the subplate, one of my shellplates, and the primer punch/sliders, all within only a couple thousand rounds.

Today I would be checking out the new RCBS presses that are more conventional in design while still intimidating in price.
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