Front-only Night Sight vs. Front/Rear - Page 2

Brian Pfleuger · March 28, 2014, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by old bear

Brian, front sight only is the only way I practice, point shooting.

I have not read those books (I know I should) but I have read of fair bit of excerpts.

I am under the (possibly mistaken) impression that Jordan's version of point shooting never relies on the sights in any way, which is what I would expect from point shooting.

I am also under the (possibly mistaken) impression that the NRA's version of "point shooting" does rely on a flash sight picture.

If those impressions are correct, I find the NRA method to be a misnomer. It's not "point shooting" if you're using sights. The whole idea of "point" shooting is that it's done by "point"ing the gun instinctively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by benEzra

At least for me, a 3-dot system on a compact pistol is only fast if the front dot is either (1) far brighter than the rears or (2) a different color than the rears. I've shot a G26 with an all-green 3-dot setup, and I found I had to slow down in order to pick out which of the three green dots was the front sight, and make sure that dot was in the middle of the other two dots rather than to the side of them (which can happen).

I also prefer different colors, though I honestly can't say if it effects my performance one way or the other.

As all this relates to the thread topic, I still don't see how a single front *NIGHT* sight is beneficial. I could see that you want the front sight to be brighter than the rear, but when it's NOT nighttime a night sight is often LESS bright than a bright white dot/circle, which is why there is common discussion about which night sights are also decent for day time use.

1)If it's dark enough that you need a *night* sight to see your front sight then you won't be able to see non-night sight rear sights AT ALL, which means so sight picture of any kind.

2)If you're point shooting (traditional definition), it doesn't matter what your sight is.

3)If you want a flash sight picture, which is typically the only sight picture you'd use in a defensive situation, you need to be able to see both sights. A single front night sight would not be helpful. You'd either be able to see anyway and a night sight would possibly be LESS visible than a white dot/circle or you're back at point 1 above.

HiBC · March 28, 2014, 12:54 PM

I absolutely agree that precise sight alignment is critical to accurate pistol shooting.

While there are exceptions,generally,the more time you have to aim,the less likely it is that self defense is the issue.

The impact of the violence you are defending against is likely to disturb your aim if you do not shoot first.

If you miss,you waste time,ammo,and you might hurt the wrong person.Plus,your threat is unharmed.Who hits first is important.

When I concentrate,my Trijicon front sight has a sharp,black outline of a square blade.It can punch nice bullseye groups.

In bright daylight,I have a white bead in the top middle of that blade that is very easy to pick up.

It is a lot like the picture of the gold dot in a previous post.

If I just draw and start pulling the trigger,I might get fair results pointing,and I might not.

If I find the front sight,and put the slide and front sight on COM of my threat,and make a proper quick,surprise break trigger press,odds are good for me.

I did not invent this idea.I was paying attention to this man:

http://youtu.be/oVBV-8Rv2II

Its Jeff Coopers first tape in Defensive Pistolcraft.

I'm not intellectualizing it.I have this handgun in my hand.I am delighted at how fast I can acquire my front sight.

Water-Man · March 28, 2014, 12:54 PM

I suspect the concept was created so shooters would put emphasis on using the front sight. As well they should IMO.

mavracer · March 28, 2014, 03:02 PM

Quote:

and make sure that dot was in the middle of the other two dots rather than to the side of them (which can happen).

That sure shouldn't happen if you're practicing presentation even a little bit.

Charles S · March 28, 2014, 07:34 PM

Quote:

I found I had to slow down in order to pick out which of the three green dots was the front sight, and make sure that dot was in the middle of the other two dots rather than to the side of them (which can happen).

Have you ever shot a night shooting course? Try miss alining your gun to line up three dots in an even pattern at three yards! Try seeing how it feels at only 3 yards!

A real night shooting course is quite helpful, after that let us know how important different colors are. I have shot two night courses. Night sights are helpful. A good quality light with practice is much more important.

To answer the question... I have owned both three dot pattern and the front sight only. I find both to be superior to non-night sights.

I used to be a night sight... must have... after taking several classes and shooting at night a great deal... I am a good light must have... night sights are an accessory! Helpful!! Necessary... not so.

Training however is necessary.

maestro pistolero · March 29, 2014, 06:36 PM

I have the Ameriglo i-dots on a Glock 17 and a S&W M&P Shield and i love em.

https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sig...ete-sets/i-dot

I haven't tried the Amerlgo 'CAP' yet, but they look promising as well:

https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sig...plete-sets/cap

Despite rarely using the rear night sight when trying to push my times to the limit, I do find having them on the gun to be comforting.

I do use them all the time in dry firing and pointing practice to verify sight alignment, but it is a highly consistent, repeatable grip that is doing the aligning, not my eyes, as they are way too slow.

clemsonal · April 23, 2014, 12:33 PM

I have a front night sight on my 3 inch Ruger SP101. There is no rear sight, only the groove. It works very well.

csmsss · April 23, 2014, 12:51 PM

No night sights for me, thanks. I find them much more distracting than they might ever be helpful.

Derbel McDillet · April 25, 2014, 02:18 PM

I've been using XS Sight Systems 24/7 Big Dot tritium sights for over a dozen years and I've been very pleased with them. They're fast and accurate - having used them in several challenging training classes in low light situations as well as situations calling for precision shot placement. I have them on my pistols and my Remington 870 shotgun.

Personally I don't like 3-dot nights sights as they're visually "too busy".

I prefer to have one tritium lamp on my rear sight.

Madcap_Magician · April 25, 2014, 02:43 PM

Another vote for the Dot-the-I or Straight-8 configuration.

I can shoot three-dot sights, but it really does help to have a more prominent front sight. I like having a fainter single tritium vial in the rear sight for sight alighnment assistance at night.

dayman · May 9, 2014, 06:52 PM

I had a hard time with the straight 8s.
I found that I'm so used to the the 3 dot picture that anything else feels weird.
I'm sure I could get used to something else, but since I like 3 dots best in general, that's what I use for night sights too.
Having just the front sight lit up doesn't seem very useful to me personally (for the same reasons others have said) but clearly it works for some. It probably depends on what kind of a sight picture (or lack there of) you're used to looking for.

Quentin2 · May 9, 2014, 08:55 PM

I have to side with HiBC. I installed 10-8 sights on my Glock 23, a night sight on front and the non luminous wide u-notch rear. It's quite fast and simple.

I have conventional night sights on two other handguns but prefer the 10-8 arrangement.

oldcabin · May 19, 2014, 11:31 PM

No one mentioned what I think is a great benefit of front/set up : in the dead dark of night I can see my firearm as soon as I get near it. I know what orientation it is in and where my hand needs to go. I'm learning as I go here, but to me its a great advantage. I think different color front and rear is best if given a choice.

March 29, 2014, 06:36 PM	#31
maestro pistolero Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2007 Posts: 2,153	I have the Ameriglo i-dots on a Glock 17 and a S&W M&P Shield and i love em. https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sig...ete-sets/i-dot I haven't tried the Amerlgo 'CAP' yet, but they look promising as well: https://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sig...plete-sets/cap Despite rarely using the rear night sight when trying to push my times to the limit, I do find having them on the gun to be comforting. I do use them all the time in dry firing and pointing practice to verify sight alignment, but it is a highly consistent, repeatable grip that is doing the aligning, not my eyes, as they are way too slow. Last edited by maestro pistolero; March 29, 2014 at 06:41 PM.

March 28, 2014, 12:54 PM	#27
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,350	I absolutely agree that precise sight alignment is critical to accurate pistol shooting. While there are exceptions,generally,the more time you have to aim,the less likely it is that self defense is the issue. The impact of the violence you are defending against is likely to disturb your aim if you do not shoot first. If you miss,you waste time,ammo,and you might hurt the wrong person.Plus,your threat is unharmed.Who hits first is important. When I concentrate,my Trijicon front sight has a sharp,black outline of a square blade.It can punch nice bullseye groups. In bright daylight,I have a white bead in the top middle of that blade that is very easy to pick up. It is a lot like the picture of the gold dot in a previous post. If I just draw and start pulling the trigger,I might get fair results pointing,and I might not. If I find the front sight,and put the slide and front sight on COM of my threat,and make a proper quick,surprise break trigger press,odds are good for me. I did not invent this idea.I was paying attention to this man: http://youtu.be/oVBV-8Rv2II Its Jeff Coopers first tape in Defensive Pistolcraft. I'm not intellectualizing it.I have this handgun in my hand.I am delighted at how fast I can acquire my front sight.

March 28, 2014, 12:54 PM	#28
Water-Man Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 2,126	I suspect the concept was created so shooters would put emphasis on using the front sight. As well they should IMO.

April 23, 2014, 12:33 PM	#32
clemsonal Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: South Carolina Posts: 30	I have a front night sight on my 3 inch Ruger SP101. There is no rear sight, only the groove. It works very well.

April 23, 2014, 12:51 PM	#33
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	No night sights for me, thanks. I find them much more distracting than they might ever be helpful.

April 25, 2014, 02:18 PM	#34
Derbel McDillet Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2013 Location: Kitsap County, Washington Posts: 316	I've been using XS Sight Systems 24/7 Big Dot tritium sights for over a dozen years and I've been very pleased with them. They're fast and accurate - having used them in several challenging training classes in low light situations as well as situations calling for precision shot placement. I have them on my pistols and my Remington 870 shotgun. Personally I don't like 3-dot nights sights as they're visually "too busy". I prefer to have one tritium lamp on my rear sight.

April 25, 2014, 02:43 PM	#35
Madcap_Magician Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 668	Another vote for the Dot-the-I or Straight-8 configuration. I can shoot three-dot sights, but it really does help to have a more prominent front sight. I like having a fainter single tritium vial in the rear sight for sight alighnment assistance at night.

May 9, 2014, 06:52 PM	#36
dayman Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Location: The Woods Posts: 1,197	I had a hard time with the straight 8s. I found that I'm so used to the the 3 dot picture that anything else feels weird. I'm sure I could get used to something else, but since I like 3 dots best in general, that's what I use for night sights too. Having just the front sight lit up doesn't seem very useful to me personally (for the same reasons others have said) but clearly it works for some. It probably depends on what kind of a sight picture (or lack there of) you're used to looking for.

May 9, 2014, 08:55 PM	#37
Quentin2 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2009 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 1,996	I have to side with HiBC. I installed 10-8 sights on my Glock 23, a night sight on front and the non luminous wide u-notch rear. It's quite fast and simple. I have conventional night sights on two other handguns but prefer the 10-8 arrangement.

May 19, 2014, 11:31 PM	#38
oldcabin Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2013 Location: st louis Posts: 235	No one mentioned what I think is a great benefit of front/set up : in the dead dark of night I can see my firearm as soon as I get near it. I know what orientation it is in and where my hand needs to go. I'm learning as I go here, but to me its a great advantage. I think different color front and rear is best if given a choice.